Monday, December 31, 2012

Another News Blurb Without Enough Information

I need to call more attention to examples of news reports that do contain enough information to get an idea of what is alleged to have happened in criminal cases. It can be done without compromising the identity of crime victims. When reports or "incest" are vague because law enforcement is not releasing enough information and newsrooms aren't asking enough questions before they publish items, we have no way of knowing if what is alleged to have happened was a matter of assault or consensual sex. Those are two very different things, and yet in many places, the latter is still treated as a criminal matter even though it shouldn't be.

The latest example I have is this blurb from wivb.com in Wellsville, New York by Liz Reiman...
A 16-year-boy of Wellsville was arrested Saturday around 4:30a.m. Sunday.

The youth was charged with Incest and was committed to the Allegany County Jail on $5,000 bail.

The 16-year-old, whose name has not been released,  is due back in Wellsville Village Court on January 15th at 1p.m.

That's it. A charge of "incest," without hearing a degree attached, doesn't tell us much at all. If this was a matter of assault, why isn't their a charge of assault or rape? If this was a matter of consensual sex between minors close in age (for example, with his 14-year-old niece, nephew, brother, or sister), and was reported by some freaked out family member or neighbor, then it is a far different matter than if you have, say, a 16-year-old assaulting an 8-year-old, but both could call under being "charged with Incest."

Another News Blurb Without Enough Information

I need to call more attention to examples of news reports that do contain enough information to get an idea of what is alleged to have happened in criminal cases. It can be done without compromising the identity of crime victims. When reports or "incest" are vague because law enforcement is not releasing enough information and newsrooms aren't asking enough questions before they publish items, we have no way of knowing if what is alleged to have happened was a matter of assault or consensual sex. Those are two very different things, and yet in many places, the latter is still treated as a criminal matter even though it shouldn't be.

The latest example I have is this blurb from wivb.com in Wellsville, New York by Liz Reiman...
A 16-year-boy of Wellsville was arrested Saturday around 4:30a.m. Sunday.

The youth was charged with Incest and was committed to the Allegany County Jail on $5,000 bail.

The 16-year-old, whose name has not been released,  is due back in Wellsville Village Court on January 15th at 1p.m.

That's it. A charge of "incest," without hearing a degree attached, doesn't tell us much at all. If this was a matter of assault, why isn't their a charge of assault or rape? If this was a matter of consensual sex between minors close in age (for example, with his 14-year-old niece, nephew, brother, or sister), and was reported by some freaked out family member or neighbor, then it is a far different matter than if you have, say, a 16-year-old assaulting an 8-year-old, but both could call under being "charged with Incest."

The Future Belongs to Those Who Support Marriage Equality

Happy New Year one and all!

As those who oppose interracial relationships continue to die out...

As more and more countries and US states remove the restrictions on same-gender marriage...

As more and more people become aware of polyamorous people and polyamory and ethical nonmonogamy as valid relationship models...

As more and more people become aware of consanguinamorous relationships, whether initiated through Genetic Sexual Attraction or not, and question the irrational laws and prejudices against such relationships...

...we move closer to full marriage equality and general relationship rights for all consenting adults.

We're going to get there. Let's make it happen sooner rather than later!

Nobody should be discriminated against because they are lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgendered. Nobody should have to hide that they are polyamorous. Nobody should go to jail for having a consensual relationship with other adults. People have suffered for far too long under bigotry. The future belongs to our side.

The Future Belongs to Those Who Support Marriage Equality

Happy New Year one and all!

As those who oppose interracial relationships continue to die out...

As more and more countries and US states remove the restrictions on same-gender marriage...

As more and more people become aware of polyamorous people and polyamory and ethical nonmonogamy as valid relationship models...

As more and more people become aware of consanguinamorous relationships, whether initiated through Genetic Sexual Attraction or not, and question the irrational laws and prejudices against such relationships...

...we move closer to full marriage equality and general relationship rights for all consenting adults.

We're going to get there. Let's make it happen sooner rather than later!

Nobody should be discriminated against because they are lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgendered. Nobody should have to hide that they are polyamorous. Nobody should go to jail for having a consensual relationship with other adults. People have suffered for far too long under bigotry. The future belongs to our side.

Sunday, December 30, 2012

Tale of Two Parole Boards

Jacob Trakhtenberg
Sitting on a parole board must be tough.  When reviewing a convict's petition for parole, the board member has an enormous amount of pressure to "get it right".

One option is to take the easy route by erring on the side of caution and letting the petitioner's sentence "run it's course".  Eventually, if flopped enough times by the parole board, a convicted felon simply gets released from the penitentiary by serving a statutory maximum period of incarceration.

That is what happened to two convicted felons that have been making headlines this month: one local; the other from Upstate New York.  This post takes a look at the circumstances of the cases, addressing the challenges of the parole system presented in each.

First, the Michigan case.  In 2005, Jacob Trakhtenberg, a former Chief Engineer for Chrysler, was charged in Oakland County Circuit Court with 5-counts of criminal sexual conduct.  The charging instrument did not specify dates of the alleged sexual assaults against his minor daughter, 8-years old at the time, and was silent as to the specific nature of alleged sexual contact.

His initial court-appointed lawyer elected to conduct a bench trial before former Oakland Circuit Court Judge Deborah Tyner, who found the accused guilty on 3 of the five charges.  One of the alleged deficiencies of Trakhtenberg's court-appointed defense counsel was that she did not conduct any investigation whatsoever relative to the prosecutor's disclosed witnesses.

Trakhtenberg was in prison during the years in which his appeals have [twice] traveled the gamut of the Michigan appellate courts.

Although his appeals have finally gained some traction thanks to our friend, appellate specialist Robyn Frankel, this relief may have come too late for the convicted felon.

In November, the defendant was placed on parole, having served 2/3 of his maximum 10-year sentence, and being eligible for release under the applicable Michigan statute.  His second appeal, known as a "6500 appeal" after the specific court rule that provides for such a last bite at the procedural apple, was decided in his favor last week in a Michigan Supreme Court opinion that remanded the case to the Oakland County Circuit Court for a new trial.

In a 4-2 decision [Justice Hathaway abstained], our High Court held:
In this case, defense counsel failed to exercise  reasonable professional judgment when deciding to forgo particular investigations relevant to the defense, including her
failure to identify the factual predicate of each of the five charged counts of criminal sexual conduct, her failure to consult with key witnesses, and her failure to sufficiently develop the defense presented at trial.  Accordingly, her representation fell below an objective standard of reasonableness.  Defendant was unfairly prejudiced by counsel’s deficient performance.  The key evidence against defendant was the complainant’s testimony.  Therefore, the reliability of defendant’s convictions was undermined by defense counsel’s failure to introduce impeachment evidence and evidence that corroborated defendant’s testimony that defense counsel was unaware of because she decided to forgo those investigations.  Had the impeachment evidence and the evidence that corroborated defendant’s testimony  been introduced, there was a reasonable probability that the result of the trial would have been different.  [Syllabus, page 2]
The effective assistance challenge to Trakhtenberg's conviction, ultimately successful in this case, is a critical component of an accused's basket of Sixth Amendment rights guaranteeing a fair trial.

No word yet as to whether the Oakland County Prosecutor will go forward with a second trial considering Defendant has already served a maximum sentence.  Since the completion of his first set of appeals, the initial trial judge, Judge Tyner, resigned from the Oakland County Circuit Court bench and was succeeded on the case by Judge Daniel O'Brien.

The tough part of criminal sexual assault convictions is that the Michigan Department of Corrections has a bright-line policy whereby the offender must complete sexual abuse counseling prior to achieving eligibility for parole.  Often, convicted offenders maintain their innocence, adhering to a campaign of total denial.  This renders them ineligible for an early parole.

While the resulting extended prison stay is justified for a properly convicted abuser, it is a tragedy if the person is wrongly convicted as concluded by the Michigan Supreme Court in Trakhtenberg.

Meanwhile, in Webster, NY, the criminal justice system attempts to make sense of how William Spengler should have been handled.  Spengler, a paroled murderer, allegedly killed two first responders to a fire he started as a decoy prior to killing himself on Christmas Eve.

It has now come to light that Spengler was paroled after serving a 17-year prison sentence for murdering his grandmother with a hammer.  Prior to his release from prison, 4 consecutive parole boards denied Spengler parole despite finding him to be well-spoken, well-behaved and intelligent.

After being released from prison, Spengler kept to himself for about a decade, until he apparently solicited the assistance of a young neighbor's daughter to purchase a shotgun and an assault rifle.  We now know that these were the weapons used in Spengler's murder-suicide.

Comparing these two cases brings the difficulty of the parole process into focus.  Once a person has been warehoused in prison for several years, what does the justice system do with them upon release?

What about persons wrongfully convicted [or unconstitutionally convicted] such as Trakhtenberg?  If ultimately acquitted, he may be entitled to millions in civil damages.  Will this potential exposure play into the Oakland County Prosecutor's decision to re-try the former automotive engineer who has already served all the prison time he could serve?

Are hardened killers such as Spengler ever truly rehabilitated?  Apparently, there is always a significant risk in allowing such killers to walk free among us.

This blog does not claim to have the answers to these tough questions.

www.clarkstonlegal.com
info@clarkstonlegal.com


Saturday, December 29, 2012

Appeals Court Creates New Crime to Affirm Conviction

This case, State v Helen, arose out of North Carolina.  The facts, on the surface, were about as favorable as it gets for the prosecutor.

The accused had a tail light out.  [If I had a dime for every defendant I represented who was pulled over for a tail light...]  The officer stopped the motorist; the stop led to a search of his vehicle and, eventually, a drug conviction.

Here is the problem that arose on appeal: in North Carolina, there is a little known wrinkle in their motor vehicle code which provides that, so long as a motorist's other tail light is functioning, having one light out is not a violation.

This case went all the way to the North Carolina Supreme Court.  Now, if I was sitting on that High Court, my vote would be to reverse the conviction.  If the officer lacked probable cause to conduct a traffic stop, then basic Fourth Amendment constitutional law provides that the evidence seized in an illegal stop and search is excluded as the proverbial "fruit of the poisonous tree".

A constitutional "no-brainer", right?  Guess again.  The divided High Court essentially created a new traffic law by holding that, so long as the officer held a reasonable belief that a law had been broken, the search was legal.

But citizens, take note that this "reasonably-held-belief" standard does not work both ways.  If you, the motorist, reasonably believe that you are obeying the traffic laws, [say you are texting in a municipality where you believe no distraction ordinance has been adopted], but in fact, you are violating a provision of the traffic code, then your ignorance of this law is no defense and you can get a ticket.

The "take away" from this case from North Carolina is that ignorance of the law is ok if you are a peace officer, but not if you are an ordinary citizen.

www.clarkstonlegal.com
info@clarkstonlegal.com

Thursday, December 27, 2012

A Common Theme in 2012 Television

With the end of the year upon us and so much of the media world taking vacations, the annual retrospectives are everywhere. At huffingpost.com, there was a look at "TV Tropes of 2012."
Tropes tend to spread quickly on TV. The networks are all hungry for ratings, watching each other like hawks to see what's working best for their competition. Because of this, certain plot devices, show constructs and character quirks can become ubiquitous cliches pretty fast.

Looking back on the year in TV tropes brings a few trends into focus. The networks got way too invested in their singing competition judges. Stunt-guest casting to create faux-TV reunions ran amok. The bow and arrow combined with poison to bring TV weaponry back to the 19th century. Women started proposing to men, and step-sibling incest became a thing.
Details...
Incest was all over TV this year. Most of it was of the step-sibling variety, like Deb temporarily falling in love with Dexter, Dan Humphrey and Serena van der Woodson getting married on "Gossip Girl" and Bobbi Kristina and Nick Gordon's brief engagement on "The Houstons." But there was also the darker, those-characters-are-actually-blood-relatives variety, led by Jaime and Cersei Lannister on "Game Of Thrones" and Gillian Darmody's sexual relationship with her son Jimmy -- that she then continued with his lookalike in "Boardwalk Empire" Season 3 after Jimmy died.
Unfortunately, coverage in articles such as this and depictions on television too often disparage consensual relationships between close relatives, whether they are related genetically or by affinity. I think I've said before that television should depict the reality of consanguineous sex and consanguinamorous relationships, including that there are positive experiences and lasting, happy relationships. Currently, a reality show featuring a truly consanguinamorous relationship would need to be produced where there aren't still ridiculous laws criminalizing such relationships. New Jersey is one such place. But any fictional show can include the subject. Yes, there will be the clutching of pearls and howls of protest from the bigots and sex-negative fossils, but so what? It's going to happen. Television has often been ahead of the curve when it comes to the state of civil rights and public opinion about civil rights on a national level, and shouldn't fall behind here. A skillful creative team and a distribution company with guts can take the lead and do this well.

Sunday, December 23, 2012

Happy Holidays!

Merry Christmas, Happy (belated) Hanukkah, Yuletide Greetings, Solstice Salutations, and Happy Holidays!

Whatever holidays you celebrate, or even if you don't celebrate any, I wish you a fabulous season full of warmth and love.

May you and your loved ones have peace, health, and happiness.

I plan to update this blog as I can over the holidays, so keep checking back. Or better yet, subscribe in the column over there on the right if you haven't done so yet ==>

Saturday, December 22, 2012

Defense Lawyer Needed in Consenting Adults Case

Over at patch.com, Mark Langlois brings us an update on the prosecution in Connecticut of a genetic father and his adult daughter for the "crime" of having consensual sex. This is a case that appears to be a matte of Genetic Sexual Attraction.
George Sayers, who is out on a $750,000 bond, was denied a public defender Friday in Danbury Superior Court.
Can't someone from the ACLU get involved? I know this wasn't set up as a test case, but perhaps the ridiculous laws can be successfully challenged?
Judge Joseph Doherty told Sayers the next time he shows up in court he must appear with an attorney. The court date is scheduled for Jan. 25.
Judge Doherty, why not simply throw the case out? Don't you feel silly interfering in the consensual sex lives of other adults?

Hartford appeared at her hearing in Danbury Superior Court about an hour before Sayers.

Judge Doherty told the court he received two letters about Miss Hartford, one from Danbury Hospital and one from Western Connecticut Mental Health Network. He said the letters were complimentary to Hartford, and he said he wanted to say that for the record. He said she should continue to be compliant with what the programs ask her to do, and work on her issues.
Looks like her biggest issue is that strangers are trying to control what she does with her own sexuality.

Stop prosecuting adults for consensual sex! Stop tearing families apart due to your own personal prejudices! There's no good reason for this prosecution.

Defense Lawyer Needed in Consenting Adults Case

Over at patch.com, Mark Langlois brings us an update on the prosecution in Connecticut of a genetic father and his adult daughter for the "crime" of having consensual sex. This is a case that appears to be a matte of Genetic Sexual Attraction.
George Sayers, who is out on a $750,000 bond, was denied a public defender Friday in Danbury Superior Court.
Can't someone from the ACLU get involved? I know this wasn't set up as a test case, but perhaps the ridiculous laws can be successfully challenged?
Judge Joseph Doherty told Sayers the next time he shows up in court he must appear with an attorney. The court date is scheduled for Jan. 25.
Judge Doherty, why not simply throw the case out? Don't you feel silly interfering in the consensual sex lives of other adults?

Hartford appeared at her hearing in Danbury Superior Court about an hour before Sayers.

Judge Doherty told the court he received two letters about Miss Hartford, one from Danbury Hospital and one from Western Connecticut Mental Health Network. He said the letters were complimentary to Hartford, and he said he wanted to say that for the record. He said she should continue to be compliant with what the programs ask her to do, and work on her issues.
Looks like her biggest issue is that strangers are trying to control what she does with her own sexuality.

Stop prosecuting adults for consensual sex! Stop tearing families apart due to your own personal prejudices! There's no good reason for this prosecution.

Thursday, December 20, 2012

Yet Another Couple Denied the Freedom to Marry

By my count, this is the sixteenth committed relationship I've covered through exclusive interviews in which the lovers are denied the freedom to marry.

"Lil Butterfly" is a beautiful woman and a mother. She’s deeply in love with man in her life, but not only are they currently denied their right to marry, but they have to hide their love for each other or risk prosecution and having their children taken away.

Read this interview and ask yourself if there is one good reason their rights should be denied.

*****

FULL MARRIAGE EQUALITY: Describe your background.

Lil Butterfly: I am a young female with pre-teen children. Other than some close friends, I mostly keep to myself. I've spent a lifetime alone, so I tend to prefer my own company.

I was raised in a normal family, with plenty of guidance in accepting people even if I didn't agree with situations or choices. However, I would say I craved love. I have a lot of love and affection to give and spend a vast amount of my time helping others in need.

I found out about my situation early into my teens - that the man who had raised me was not my biological father, but someone else was - I shall call him Chris. Chris had many commitment issues and I had many half siblings, only two of which welcomed me. They were excommunicated from the family circle, so to speak, and had been neglected by our genetic father. I didn't trace my half siblings until I was into my 20s, not because I didn't want to, but due to the lack of resources and the spitefulness of my mother.

I currently live with my half brother and our children (his) & (mine). We’re together happily, like any other couple.




FME: Describe how you met your half-brother.

I tracked my HB via the Internet and contacted him. He had been looking for me all those years; he had remembered me. He had a different mother and my mother had left my father so we had been only around each other the minimal amount of time, to begin with anyway. HB is older than me by 6 years but we are on an even wavelength with the same interests and hobbies.


FME: What was that “first” meeting with your HB like? What kind of feelings were you experiencing?

Before him, I didn't know what was missing but I knew I didn't quite feel like I belonged with anybody or that I fit in with people. When he came into my life it was like the whole world had stopped and for once everything was perfect. I didn't need to question anything; he was exactly what my life had been missing. I was home, my heart was at ease and I finally knew what love was in its most amazing form.

The first meeting was quite funny, I'd been told stories about this person and created this illusion in my head of this rough and rugged full-of-anger person. But I stood shocked that day. This man was sweet and thoughtful - everything my illusion was not. He was perfect. However, there was no attraction at that moment. Just a perfect connection.


FME: How did the relationship with him progress?

We both, after about 11 months, were feeling something but neither had confirmed this with the other. It was an evening he had been around and I had already had vivid dreams of him and this yearning for him was so powerful. I had carried out research and found Genetic Sexual Attraction information and forums. This made me feel normal but I still didn't know how to tell him for fear of repercussions. I was playing around on You Tube one night whilst he was cleaning up and came across a song, “Love Him Out Loud.” I was just playing this and it was speaking to me. He could never possibly know, but he did at that moment - he knew I felt the same way he did. We talked about our feelings for 4 days before anything happened. But when it did - I'd never felt more alive. We both played our part and embarking on our relationship was a mutual decision.


FME: Can you describe your feelings during that time? Many people brought together through GSA say it is the best relationship and best sex they’ve ever experienced. Have you found, or did you find at the time, that to be true for you?

Oh it truly is the best. Your body, mind, and soul work in tune. This love - the connection is so intense but yet so beautiful. We feel as if we have been made only for each other. In honesty, neither of us have ever felt this kind of love. To describe it it's like the moment I looked down on my newborn son with such an overwhelming intense unconditional love. I've never felt so complete, so in love with another human or even had such restraint, such patience in disagreements. Instead, we have more understanding. Even now, down the line, it still feels like a new love, it hasn't dulled but grown. We are physically closer and emotionally closer and I can't imagine ever having this bond with any other human. He is the yang to my yin, my twin flame, my best friend. I never felt confused or deluded. It felt right and still does. My saying is "I don't have a problem it's every one else." We wouldn't work with anyone else; not the way we do together.

FME: Describe your relationship with your HB now. Do you see him more as a brother, your lover, or are those two roles inseparable at this point?

He is my brother first and my partner second. I can distinguish between the two. We live together and let others assume whatever they want to. We want to marry and be together properly but stupid ancient laws prevent us. Yet we are at our most happiest together.


FME: Does anyone in your life know the full, true nature/history of your relationship and how did they find out? Are you able to act like a couple in public? What kind of steps, if any, have you had to take to keep your privacy?

No one is aware we are in a relationship. To everyone, we are brother and sister. If we are visiting somewhere new on holiday, perhaps we can be husband and wife then. I limit the information I give people, keeping them at arms length. If they ask questions, I just answer them in just a plain manner and then I guess I don't care what they think. They need proof and unless they are with us they won't have any. He actually gets asked more questions that I do and has to think more than I do to answer them.


FME: Having to hide the full nature of your relationship from some people can be a disadvantage. Are there any other disadvantages?

The only disadvantages I find is other women not knowing he is mine, or not being able to shout it to the world how much he means to me. We should be able to share our happiness.


FME: You're an attractive woman. How do you deal with people who are interested in dating you, or with people who want to fix you up with someone, or ask you why you're not with someone?

I just tell them I don't want to be with anyone. I have my children and my career and don't need the complications of a relationship. If I need a man I'll call on my brother for those best friend moments.


FME: What do you want to say to people who disapprove of your relationship, or disapprove of anyone having this kind of relationship? What's your reply to those who would say that if a genetic half brother and half sister have this kind of relationship, it is only because the sister is being victimized by the brother (and that you can’t really consent)? There are some who have experienced GSA who discourage others from having any sexual involvement. Do you have anything to say about that?

I would love to tell them this: I have been a victim to men all my life in every cruel way. My HB may be a relative of sorts but he is the only man I could trust with my life. He would never do anything I didn't agree to or want. People can think this is disgusting or disturbed, but in reality when you have suffered as I have, you realise this isn't a heinous crime, and should never be punished as such. He didn't know me as a sister nor did I know him as a brother. He is a man that I fell in love with. For centuries, half siblings have been together but in recent centuries we have all had to go underground because of society’s misconception. If we are in a relationship and we, as adults, choose to be, it is not harmful or criminal. We hurt no one. Just because I don't want to be something doesn't mean I will persecute those who do; their actions don't impact on my life, just as my relationship or any of us in a GSA relationship do not have an impact of theirs. It's a man and woman together regardless of who they are to one another. This goes the same for homosexual couples; they share love and happiness. Should this not be all that matters in a dire world we live in?

People need to be more open minded.

If caught in my country my HB could face up to 14 years in prison but yet a man who rapes or molests 1-3 girls under 15 with a 15 year age gap will serve just 3 yearrs! His is a disgusting crime. My brother’s only “crime” is love. There are worse things in this world than being in love with a relative or someone of the same sex.


FME: Aside from the law, can you think of anything that would make a GSA-based sexual relationship inherently wrong?

I couldn't tell you anything that is wrong with any of the GSA relationships, other than society's nosiness and interference. It is society that destroys our chances by being so small-minded. We are committed to making it work, yet society refuses to let us try, because it is the unknown, and that is all.


FME: So if you could get legally married, and that included protections against discrimination, harassment, etc., you would?

Yes, we would get married and we would probably outlast the standard marriages, too.


FME: What advice do you have for someone who may be experiencing GSA? What advice do you have for family members and friends who think or know that someone is experiencing GSA?

If you are experiencing it, join the forums and discussion groups, take advice from those involved, speak with the other party if you think they may feel the same or even just to tell them as hard as this may be. I personally feel it can be more damaging not to talk it out.

If you are a family member or friend and you suspect something’s going on, don't question the couple in a confrontational manner. They will deny it for their own protection. Drop subtle hints that you will accept them as they are. Be there for them and be open-minded. You may disapprove, but that is your opinion; it doesn't make it gospel. Don't report them, you will later regret this for all involved.

When people try to keep others apart it only draws them closer and makes them stronger. If you value your family member or friend then support them, love them and accept them.  Remember they are in love and that is all that matters.


FME: Do you have any plans for the future?

At the moment we are living each day as it comes but we intend to marry one day in one of the countries that allow this.


FME: Anything else you want to add?

Live and let live. If we are happy and not in your face, why can't you just let us be?


*****


There you have it. Two consenting adults, raising their respective children together, denied their right to marry and having to hide their love for each other. Why? There’s no good reason. The only disadvantages to the relationship she cited had to do with prejudice against such relationships. We need to adopt full marriage equality sooner rather than later, so that an adult is free to marry any consenting adults. Real people are being hurt because of a denial of their basic human rights to love each other freely.

You can read other interviews I have done here.

If you are in a relationship like this and are looking for help or others you can talk with, read this.

If you are a family member or friend of someone who is in or may be in such a relationship, please read this.

Thank you to Lil Butterfly and the man who'd be her legal husband (if the law didn't discriminate against them) for sharing their situation with us.

Yet Another Couple Denied the Freedom to Marry

By my count, this is the sixteenth committed relationship I've covered through exclusive interviews in which the lovers are denied the freedom to marry.

"Lil Butterfly" is a beautiful woman and a mother. She’s deeply in love with man in her life, but not only are they currently denied their right to marry, but they have to hide their love for each other or risk prosecution and having their children taken away.

Read this interview and ask yourself if there is one good reason their rights should be denied.

*****

FULL MARRIAGE EQUALITY: Describe your background.

Lil Butterfly: I am a young female with pre-teen children. Other than some close friends, I mostly keep to myself. I've spent a lifetime alone, so I tend to prefer my own company.

I was raised in a normal family, with plenty of guidance in accepting people even if I didn't agree with situations or choices. However, I would say I craved love. I have a lot of love and affection to give and spend a vast amount of my time helping others in need.

I found out about my situation early into my teens - that the man who had raised me was not my biological father, but someone else was - I shall call him Chris. Chris had many commitment issues and I had many half siblings, only two of which welcomed me. They were excommunicated from the family circle, so to speak, and had been neglected by our genetic father. I didn't trace my half siblings until I was into my 20s, not because I didn't want to, but due to the lack of resources and the spitefulness of my mother.

I currently live with my half brother and our children (his) & (mine). We’re together happily, like any other couple.




FME: Describe how you met your half-brother.

I tracked my HB via the Internet and contacted him. He had been looking for me all those years; he had remembered me. He had a different mother and my mother had left my father so we had been only around each other the minimal amount of time, to begin with anyway. HB is older than me by 6 years but we are on an even wavelength with the same interests and hobbies.


FME: What was that “first” meeting with your HB like? What kind of feelings were you experiencing?

Before him, I didn't know what was missing but I knew I didn't quite feel like I belonged with anybody or that I fit in with people. When he came into my life it was like the whole world had stopped and for once everything was perfect. I didn't need to question anything; he was exactly what my life had been missing. I was home, my heart was at ease and I finally knew what love was in its most amazing form.

The first meeting was quite funny, I'd been told stories about this person and created this illusion in my head of this rough and rugged full-of-anger person. But I stood shocked that day. This man was sweet and thoughtful - everything my illusion was not. He was perfect. However, there was no attraction at that moment. Just a perfect connection.


FME: How did the relationship with him progress?

We both, after about 11 months, were feeling something but neither had confirmed this with the other. It was an evening he had been around and I had already had vivid dreams of him and this yearning for him was so powerful. I had carried out research and found Genetic Sexual Attraction information and forums. This made me feel normal but I still didn't know how to tell him for fear of repercussions. I was playing around on You Tube one night whilst he was cleaning up and came across a song, “Love Him Out Loud.” I was just playing this and it was speaking to me. He could never possibly know, but he did at that moment - he knew I felt the same way he did. We talked about our feelings for 4 days before anything happened. But when it did - I'd never felt more alive. We both played our part and embarking on our relationship was a mutual decision.


FME: Can you describe your feelings during that time? Many people brought together through GSA say it is the best relationship and best sex they’ve ever experienced. Have you found, or did you find at the time, that to be true for you?

Oh it truly is the best. Your body, mind, and soul work in tune. This love - the connection is so intense but yet so beautiful. We feel as if we have been made only for each other. In honesty, neither of us have ever felt this kind of love. To describe it it's like the moment I looked down on my newborn son with such an overwhelming intense unconditional love. I've never felt so complete, so in love with another human or even had such restraint, such patience in disagreements. Instead, we have more understanding. Even now, down the line, it still feels like a new love, it hasn't dulled but grown. We are physically closer and emotionally closer and I can't imagine ever having this bond with any other human. He is the yang to my yin, my twin flame, my best friend. I never felt confused or deluded. It felt right and still does. My saying is "I don't have a problem it's every one else." We wouldn't work with anyone else; not the way we do together.

FME: Describe your relationship with your HB now. Do you see him more as a brother, your lover, or are those two roles inseparable at this point?

He is my brother first and my partner second. I can distinguish between the two. We live together and let others assume whatever they want to. We want to marry and be together properly but stupid ancient laws prevent us. Yet we are at our most happiest together.


FME: Does anyone in your life know the full, true nature/history of your relationship and how did they find out? Are you able to act like a couple in public? What kind of steps, if any, have you had to take to keep your privacy?

No one is aware we are in a relationship. To everyone, we are brother and sister. If we are visiting somewhere new on holiday, perhaps we can be husband and wife then. I limit the information I give people, keeping them at arms length. If they ask questions, I just answer them in just a plain manner and then I guess I don't care what they think. They need proof and unless they are with us they won't have any. He actually gets asked more questions that I do and has to think more than I do to answer them.


FME: Having to hide the full nature of your relationship from some people can be a disadvantage. Are there any other disadvantages?

The only disadvantages I find is other women not knowing he is mine, or not being able to shout it to the world how much he means to me. We should be able to share our happiness.


FME: You're an attractive woman. How do you deal with people who are interested in dating you, or with people who want to fix you up with someone, or ask you why you're not with someone?

I just tell them I don't want to be with anyone. I have my children and my career and don't need the complications of a relationship. If I need a man I'll call on my brother for those best friend moments.


FME: What do you want to say to people who disapprove of your relationship, or disapprove of anyone having this kind of relationship? What's your reply to those who would say that if a genetic half brother and half sister have this kind of relationship, it is only because the sister is being victimized by the brother (and that you can’t really consent)? There are some who have experienced GSA who discourage others from having any sexual involvement. Do you have anything to say about that?

I would love to tell them this: I have been a victim to men all my life in every cruel way. My HB may be a relative of sorts but he is the only man I could trust with my life. He would never do anything I didn't agree to or want. People can think this is disgusting or disturbed, but in reality when you have suffered as I have, you realise this isn't a heinous crime, and should never be punished as such. He didn't know me as a sister nor did I know him as a brother. He is a man that I fell in love with. For centuries, half siblings have been together but in recent centuries we have all had to go underground because of society’s misconception. If we are in a relationship and we, as adults, choose to be, it is not harmful or criminal. We hurt no one. Just because I don't want to be something doesn't mean I will persecute those who do; their actions don't impact on my life, just as my relationship or any of us in a GSA relationship do not have an impact of theirs. It's a man and woman together regardless of who they are to one another. This goes the same for homosexual couples; they share love and happiness. Should this not be all that matters in a dire world we live in?

People need to be more open minded.

If caught in my country my HB could face up to 14 years in prison but yet a man who rapes or molests 1-3 girls under 15 with a 15 year age gap will serve just 3 yearrs! His is a disgusting crime. My brother’s only “crime” is love. There are worse things in this world than being in love with a relative or someone of the same sex.


FME: Aside from the law, can you think of anything that would make a GSA-based sexual relationship inherently wrong?

I couldn't tell you anything that is wrong with any of the GSA relationships, other than society's nosiness and interference. It is society that destroys our chances by being so small-minded. We are committed to making it work, yet society refuses to let us try, because it is the unknown, and that is all.


FME: So if you could get legally married, and that included protections against discrimination, harassment, etc., you would?

Yes, we would get married and we would probably outlast the standard marriages, too.


FME: What advice do you have for someone who may be experiencing GSA? What advice do you have for family members and friends who think or know that someone is experiencing GSA?

If you are experiencing it, join the forums and discussion groups, take advice from those involved, speak with the other party if you think they may feel the same or even just to tell them as hard as this may be. I personally feel it can be more damaging not to talk it out.

If you are a family member or friend and you suspect something’s going on, don't question the couple in a confrontational manner. They will deny it for their own protection. Drop subtle hints that you will accept them as they are. Be there for them and be open-minded. You may disapprove, but that is your opinion; it doesn't make it gospel. Don't report them, you will later regret this for all involved.

When people try to keep others apart it only draws them closer and makes them stronger. If you value your family member or friend then support them, love them and accept them.  Remember they are in love and that is all that matters.


FME: Do you have any plans for the future?

At the moment we are living each day as it comes but we intend to marry one day in one of the countries that allow this.


FME: Anything else you want to add?

Live and let live. If we are happy and not in your face, why can't you just let us be?


*****


There you have it. Two consenting adults, raising their respective children together, denied their right to marry and having to hide their love for each other. Why? There’s no good reason. The only disadvantages to the relationship she cited had to do with prejudice against such relationships. We need to adopt full marriage equality sooner rather than later, so that an adult is free to marry any consenting adults. Real people are being hurt because of a denial of their basic human rights to love each other freely.

You can read other interviews I have done here.

If you are in a relationship like this and are looking for help or others you can talk with, read this.

If you are a family member or friend of someone who is in or may be in such a relationship, please read this.

Thank you to Lil Butterfly and the man who'd be her legal husband (if the law didn't discriminate against them) for sharing their situation with us.

Brothers and Sisters and Pregnancies

Every day, all over the world, regardless of socioeconomic status, siblings are sharing everything from from exploration and experimentation to lifelong spousal relationships. Whether we know it or not, and whether they know it or not, we all know people whose genetic parents are brother and sister. It is that common, and most children born to close relatives are healthy. So the two news items in this update should be no surprise. (By the way, siblings and anyone else involved in a consensual relationship with a close relative who wants to talk with others should sign up at Kindred Spirit forum. But be sure to immediately read and follow the rules, or you'll get kicked right off.)

Raymond Tan reports at the borneopost.com on a criminal case of interest to this blog...


The police here are anxious to determine whether two teenage boys and their sister had committed incest after the 13-year-old girl gave birth to a boy.
The police should only be interested if there was an assault involved. Are those official police uniforms in the picture?
They are now taking the 15-year-old and 17-year-old brothers for medical examination and DNA tests.
Does Boreo have laws against using a turkey baster to insert semen in a case like this? Some places don't. It is a valid defense.

The incident came to light after the children’s father found the girl pregnant in July.

He lodged a police report after she refused to reveal who fathered her baby.
The police might want to take the father in for testing, too, although, unless he's insane, reporting the matter makes it unlikely he did it.




When the police took the girl in, she tried to cover up, saying she had an intimate relationship with her boyfriend.

She gave birth in September, and the result of a DNA test showed that her boyfriend was not the biological father of her son.

The police took the girl in again, and this time, she broke down and confessed she had an intimate relationship with her two brothers.
Sex between a 13-year-old and a 17-year-old, and especially between a 13-year-old and a 15-year-old, should not be criminal unless there was some sort of intimidation, coercion, or force.

The girl’s family has given the infant boy away for adoption.
Look for a Genetic Sexual Attraction case in about 20 years.

Nothing in the article implies this was anything but consensual sex. Nothing in the article implies there is anything wrong with the child. Make sure the teens know about and use contraception. They are a little young to be having children. Otherwise, the authorities should stay out of it.

The second article comes from myzimbabwe.co.zw...

In an incestrous relationship that has sent tongues wagging in Caledonia Farm, a brother and his cousin sister are staying together as husband and wife, bearing children!

What is a "cousin sister?" Is that someone born to, say, your father and your mother's sister? After some quick searching, it appears it could either mean an actual sister or "female cousin."
The sister, who identified herself as Milca Mazhindi (18), is currently six months pregnant of her cousin brother Munyaradzi Tarabuka's SECOND CHILD. The two have a one-year-old daughter together.
What is newsworthy about this?

Meanwhile, knives are out for the two to vacate the area they are staying and they have been given a one week ultimatum to leave following their 'taboo' branded marriage.
Some people are threatening violence because some people love each other?

She confirmed the incident and revealed that she is in love with her brother-cum-husband and that she is six months pregnant of him. Milca revealed that their relationship started in 2010 resulting in the birth of their one-year-old daughter.
Good for them. May they have a long and happy life together.
"We met in 2010 in Buhera and the relationship started and I fell pregnant and gave birth to our first daughter. My mother and all relatives were furious about the matter but my mum later left us to live. I was the first to leave Buhera following the incident and he was called and we started staying together."
Why can't they be left alone to be happy together? There have to things that are actual problems for the local authorities to be concerned with. Notice that again, there is nothing cited as wrong with their child and no reason given as to why anyone would try to stop their relationship.

Brothers and Sisters and Pregnancies

Every day, all over the world, regardless of socioeconomic status, siblings are sharing everything from from exploration and experimentation to lifelong spousal relationships. Whether we know it or not, and whether they know it or not, we all know people whose genetic parents are brother and sister. It is that common, and most children born to close relatives are healthy. So the two news items in this update should be no surprise. (By the way, siblings and anyone else involved in a consensual relationship with a close relative who wants to talk with others should sign up at Kindred Spirit forum. But be sure to immediately read and follow the rules, or you'll get kicked right off.)

Raymond Tan reports at the borneopost.com on a criminal case of interest to this blog...


The police here are anxious to determine whether two teenage boys and their sister had committed incest after the 13-year-old girl gave birth to a boy.
The police should only be interested if there was an assault involved. Are those official police uniforms in the picture?
They are now taking the 15-year-old and 17-year-old brothers for medical examination and DNA tests.
Does Boreo have laws against using a turkey baster to insert semen in a case like this? Some places don't. It is a valid defense.

The incident came to light after the children’s father found the girl pregnant in July.

He lodged a police report after she refused to reveal who fathered her baby.
The police might want to take the father in for testing, too, although, unless he's insane, reporting the matter makes it unlikely he did it.




When the police took the girl in, she tried to cover up, saying she had an intimate relationship with her boyfriend.

She gave birth in September, and the result of a DNA test showed that her boyfriend was not the biological father of her son.

The police took the girl in again, and this time, she broke down and confessed she had an intimate relationship with her two brothers.
Sex between a 13-year-old and a 17-year-old, and especially between a 13-year-old and a 15-year-old, should not be criminal unless there was some sort of intimidation, coercion, or force.

The girl’s family has given the infant boy away for adoption.
Look for a Genetic Sexual Attraction case in about 20 years.

Nothing in the article implies this was anything but consensual sex. Nothing in the article implies there is anything wrong with the child. Make sure the teens know about and use contraception. They are a little young to be having children. Otherwise, the authorities should stay out of it.

The second article comes from myzimbabwe.co.zw...

In an incestrous relationship that has sent tongues wagging in Caledonia Farm, a brother and his cousin sister are staying together as husband and wife, bearing children!

What is a "cousin sister?" Is that someone born to, say, your father and your mother's sister? After some quick searching, it appears it could either mean an actual sister or "female cousin."
The sister, who identified herself as Milca Mazhindi (18), is currently six months pregnant of her cousin brother Munyaradzi Tarabuka's SECOND CHILD. The two have a one-year-old daughter together.
What is newsworthy about this?

Meanwhile, knives are out for the two to vacate the area they are staying and they have been given a one week ultimatum to leave following their 'taboo' branded marriage.
Some people are threatening violence because some people love each other?

She confirmed the incident and revealed that she is in love with her brother-cum-husband and that she is six months pregnant of him. Milca revealed that their relationship started in 2010 resulting in the birth of their one-year-old daughter.
Good for them. May they have a long and happy life together.
"We met in 2010 in Buhera and the relationship started and I fell pregnant and gave birth to our first daughter. My mother and all relatives were furious about the matter but my mum later left us to live. I was the first to leave Buhera following the incident and he was called and we started staying together."
Why can't they be left alone to be happy together? There have to things that are actual problems for the local authorities to be concerned with. Notice that again, there is nothing cited as wrong with their child and no reason given as to why anyone would try to stop their relationship.

Wednesday, December 19, 2012

Polyamory is for Immature People - And Other False Statments

has some interesting things to say at Synergistic Energy Exchange, where polyamory is a topic. This time, it is "What Polyamory is Not."
1.  The “easy way out”.  It is now absolutely hilarious to me that anyone would think polyamory is the easy way out!  There are so many things to deal with that either don’t exist or aren’t as intense in monogamy.
There are trade-offs to all actions. Entering into a polyamorous relationship is not an exception. For people who are polyamorous as part of who they are, it will be "easier" to be in a polyamorous relationship than to work at keeping a relationship monogamous, just as if someone needs monogamy, they will find that much easier than being a polyamorous relationship. A parallel can be made to someone who is gay. A gay man will find it much easier to be in a relationship with another man than a woman, but that doesn't make it easy overall. And just as there are monogamous bisexuals who can be in a relationship with either a man or a woman, there are people who can be happy in a monogamous relationship or a polyamorous relationship. But some people couldn't be happy in a monogamous relationship because they are polyamorous, just as they are blue-eyed or left-handed.

Merloni goes on to cite the very things that cause some monogamists to recognize that polaymory would not suit them, and thus is not the easy way out...
Safe sex takes on a whole new meaning.  So does coordination of schedules.  And jealousy.  And introspection.  A need for being conscious.  Figuring out sleeping arrangements.  And these are just to name a few
Yes. Every relationship and every form of relationship has its own issues.
2.  A sign of immaturity.  Maturity level and polyamory have nothing to do with each other.  Except for the fact that if you want to be polyamorous, you’d better be pretty darn mature, or it does not bode well for your success in that lifestyle.
Time and time again, I've seen people in monogamous relationships wondering if there was something they were doing wrong because their partner was behaving immaturely. "Maybe it's me" they'll say. However, when there are other people who are there to tell you no, it isn't you, I've noticed it, too then the immature person can be called out by multiple people.
3.  All about sex.
Polyamory is no more all about sex than monogamy. But I don't deny that polyamorous people are probably, in general, having a lot more fun.

4.  For those with poor boundaries.
Heck no, it isn't. You need to be able to be clear about boundaries or there will be a big mess very quickly.
5.  For the insecure.

Any relationship with an overly insecure person is difficult. It is impossible for such a person to function in a polyamorous relationship. They'll be miserable and anyone who is with them will be, too.

Polyamory isn't about being indecisive, or not wanting to settle down or not wanting to commit, or about wanting your cake and eating it, too. Rather, is more often about baking multiple cakes for multiple other people, or about it being fine to share a large cake with more than one other person, or realizing that you can make a bigger cake. Anyone who looks as either polyamory or monogamy as all and only about what they can get out of other people is going to be very bad at relationships.

Polyamorous relationships are something that some people find fulfilling and beneficial.

I don't assume monogamists having something wrong with them because they are monogamists, and nobody should consider polyamorists as having something wrong with them because they are polyamorists.

Some people are polyamorous as who they are, and some others are in happy, lasting polyamorous relationships even if they have been happy in monogamous relationships before. Regardless, nobody should face prosecution, bullying, shaming, or discrimination because of their relationships with consenting adults.

Update on Alabama Case

Way back in 2011 this blog noted an incest prosecution in Alabama. Stephen McLamb has an update at wsfa.com...
Authorities in Marshall County are searching for a man convicted of having sex with his mother.
"Having sex" indicates consent. Why would authorities bother prosecuting someone for consensual sex, let alone search for someone who did? Are law enforcement resources so abundant to be concerned about consensual sex?
Having pleaded to incest charges, the suspect was expected to be in court for sentencing but failed to show.
Arrest warrants are being issued for 25-year-old Gary Dean Helms Jr.

Helms failed to show in court Monday where he was facing a prison sentence up to 10 years.
Ten years! Ten yeas in prison for consensual sex?!?
Helms pleaded guilty in September, 2011 to incest charges. He was initially charged with rape in 2006.

Albertville Police said at the time Helms forcibly raped his mother, who was intoxicated and passed out on the couch of their home.

Police believe the attack was because Helms was angry with his brother over a female friend.
Then why would he attack his mother? Let's turn this around. If there was a dispute between the brothers, then that would be motivation for one brother to claim the other brother engaged in rape, right?

Helms' mother later claimed she forgave her son but said it was consensual.
The only people who know for sure what went on there are the people who were present and conscious. We could have someone who assaulted his mother and she decided to cover for her son, but the conviction is for "incest," not assault. Or we would have a situation where two people had consensual sex, and third person was jealous or envious. Things would be more clear if we no longer had ridiculous laws against consensual sex between adults. If this was an assault, the mother should not cover for her son; if not for herself, for others who might be his next target. But if this was consensual sex, it should never have been a public issue to begin with.

The website had these stories as related:

Teen arrested for raping his mother
Mother says her son was on drugs when he raped her
Mom allegedly raped by son says she forgives him
Guilty plea for man charged with raping mother

    Update on Alabama Case

    Way back in 2011 this blog noted an incest prosecution in Alabama. Stephen McLamb has an update at wsfa.com...
    Authorities in Marshall County are searching for a man convicted of having sex with his mother.
    "Having sex" indicates consent. Why would authorities bother prosecuting someone for consensual sex, let alone search for someone who did? Are law enforcement resources so abundant to be concerned about consensual sex?
    Having pleaded to incest charges, the suspect was expected to be in court for sentencing but failed to show.
    Arrest warrants are being issued for 25-year-old Gary Dean Helms Jr.

    Helms failed to show in court Monday where he was facing a prison sentence up to 10 years.
    Ten years! Ten yeas in prison for consensual sex?!?
    Helms pleaded guilty in September, 2011 to incest charges. He was initially charged with rape in 2006.

    Albertville Police said at the time Helms forcibly raped his mother, who was intoxicated and passed out on the couch of their home.

    Police believe the attack was because Helms was angry with his brother over a female friend.
    Then why would he attack his mother? Let's turn this around. If there was a dispute between the brothers, then that would be motivation for one brother to claim the other brother engaged in rape, right?

    Helms' mother later claimed she forgave her son but said it was consensual.
    The only people who know for sure what went on there are the people who were present and conscious. We could have someone who assaulted his mother and she decided to cover for her son, but the conviction is for "incest," not assault. Or we would have a situation where two people had consensual sex, and third person was jealous or envious. Things would be more clear if we no longer had ridiculous laws against consensual sex between adults. If this was an assault, the mother should not cover for her son; if not for herself, for others who might be his next target. But if this was consensual sex, it should never have been a public issue to begin with.

    The website had these stories as related:

    Teen arrested for raping his mother
    Mother says her son was on drugs when he raped her
    Mom allegedly raped by son says she forgives him
    Guilty plea for man charged with raping mother

      Tuesday, December 18, 2012

      Update on New Zealand Mother-Son GSA Case

      I believe this is an update on a case in New Zealand I blogged about earlier in the year. Ian Steward reports at stuff.co.nz that a man convicted of raping his genetic mother even though the jury believed all events for which he was on trial involved consensual sex had his appeal dismissed. It appears to be a Genetic Sexual Attraction situation where, depending on who you believe, the son became increasingly violent and controlling.
      The 29-year-old man, who was adopted as a baby, was sentenced to five years and nine months prison after being convicted of assaulting and raping his biological mother.

      The offence occurred some months after he tracked her down to ask questions about his parentage last year.

      Rather than multiple rapes, he was convicted of nine counts of incest after the jury found the sexual relationship they embarked on was consensual to begin with.

      The man, who has name suppression, was found guilty of one representative count of rape later in their relationship.

      The man's defence appealed his conviction on the "inconsistency" of him being found guilty on a non-specified representative count but not guilty on each of the specified ones.

      The Court of Appeal rejected the argument and said it was open to the jury to accept that there was "an escalating pattern of violence" in their relationship.

      The whole article is worth a read. One things is for sure: this was a sad situation.

      It is obvious to anyone who pays attention to human relationships that people can be consensual lovers and be all wrong for each other, regardless of their genetic or familial connection or lack thereof. Sometimes, people are attracted to other people who are wrong for them, or who are abusive in general. Every adult should protect herself or himself from abusive or toxic people. It is easier for people to do that when consensual relationships (including those that are consanguineous or polyamorous) are not criminalized and stigmatized.

      Update on New Zealand Mother-Son GSA Case

      I believe this is an update on a case in New Zealand I blogged about earlier in the year. Ian Steward reports at stuff.co.nz that a man convicted of raping his genetic mother even though the jury believed all events for which he was on trial involved consensual sex had his appeal dismissed. It appears to be a Genetic Sexual Attraction situation where, depending on who you believe, the son became increasingly violent and controlling.
      The 29-year-old man, who was adopted as a baby, was sentenced to five years and nine months prison after being convicted of assaulting and raping his biological mother.

      The offence occurred some months after he tracked her down to ask questions about his parentage last year.

      Rather than multiple rapes, he was convicted of nine counts of incest after the jury found the sexual relationship they embarked on was consensual to begin with.

      The man, who has name suppression, was found guilty of one representative count of rape later in their relationship.

      The man's defence appealed his conviction on the "inconsistency" of him being found guilty on a non-specified representative count but not guilty on each of the specified ones.

      The Court of Appeal rejected the argument and said it was open to the jury to accept that there was "an escalating pattern of violence" in their relationship.

      The whole article is worth a read. One things is for sure: this was a sad situation.

      It is obvious to anyone who pays attention to human relationships that people can be consensual lovers and be all wrong for each other, regardless of their genetic or familial connection or lack thereof. Sometimes, people are attracted to other people who are wrong for them, or who are abusive in general. Every adult should protect herself or himself from abusive or toxic people. It is easier for people to do that when consensual relationships (including those that are consanguineous or polyamorous) are not criminalized and stigmatized.

      Monday, December 17, 2012

      Affection is Not Bad

      The mirror.co.uk ran an advice column in which someone asked Coleen...
      My boyfriend and his 23-year-old daughter are making me feel uncomfortable when they are together.
      Now, last I checked, having a boyfriend was completely voluntary in the UK. Someone who is unhappy with how her or his boyfriend interacts with their family is free to not have that person as a boyfriend anymore. Think about it. This man's daughter is not going to disappear. 

      If she comes over she rubs against him like I imagine she might do with a boyfriend.

      If we watch TV, she sits so close to him and plays with his hair.

      And if she walks by him he’ll sometimes slap her bum and she does the same to him.

      Is this normal?
      It really doesn't matter. Think about it. Let's say that there was some clear, definite authority that decreed this NOT NORMAL. What then? The letter-writer then goes to her boyfriend and says, "That isn't normal." The boyfriend then either says, "Uh, nice knowin' ya! See ya!" (Actually, they probably don't talk that way there, but you know what I mean.) Or, the boyfriend and his daughter keep doing it, just not around the uptight girlfriend.
      Here's the response to the letter...

      For them, yes it is normal.

      They obviously have a close relationship and his daughter has grown up without any inhibitions about showing affection physically.

      If you haven’t been brought up in that way, though, I can ­understand why you find it odd.

      I have a 23-year-old son, but to me he may as well still be 10 years old!

      We still hug and if I’m sitting on the sofa watching telly with my younger son, we’ll snuggle up and sometimes he’ll play with my hair, even at 23!

      They’re still my babies and always will be, and I’m sure that’s how your boyfriend feels about his daughter.

      Maybe.

      He loves her unconditionally and that can be threatening and even provoke a bit of jealousy.

      If you’re feeling shut out, talk to your boyfriend about it instead of allowing those feelings to build and cause resentment.
      That's a good answer.

      No level of affection between consenting adults is inappropriate in their own home as they aren't violating existing agreements with others. Mutual, consensual affection should not be discouraged by others. People, in general, could benefit from more affection.

      Affection is Not Bad

      The mirror.co.uk ran an advice column in which someone asked Coleen...
      My boyfriend and his 23-year-old daughter are making me feel uncomfortable when they are together.
      Now, last I checked, having a boyfriend was completely voluntary in the UK. Someone who is unhappy with how her or his boyfriend interacts with their family is free to not have that person as a boyfriend anymore. Think about it. This man's daughter is not going to disappear. 

      If she comes over she rubs against him like I imagine she might do with a boyfriend.

      If we watch TV, she sits so close to him and plays with his hair.

      And if she walks by him he’ll sometimes slap her bum and she does the same to him.

      Is this normal?
      It really doesn't matter. Think about it. Let's say that there was some clear, definite authority that decreed this NOT NORMAL. What then? The letter-writer then goes to her boyfriend and says, "That isn't normal." The boyfriend then either says, "Uh, nice knowin' ya! See ya!" (Actually, they probably don't talk that way there, but you know what I mean.) Or, the boyfriend and his daughter keep doing it, just not around the uptight girlfriend.
      Here's the response to the letter...

      For them, yes it is normal.

      They obviously have a close relationship and his daughter has grown up without any inhibitions about showing affection physically.

      If you haven’t been brought up in that way, though, I can ­understand why you find it odd.

      I have a 23-year-old son, but to me he may as well still be 10 years old!

      We still hug and if I’m sitting on the sofa watching telly with my younger son, we’ll snuggle up and sometimes he’ll play with my hair, even at 23!

      They’re still my babies and always will be, and I’m sure that’s how your boyfriend feels about his daughter.

      Maybe.

      He loves her unconditionally and that can be threatening and even provoke a bit of jealousy.

      If you’re feeling shut out, talk to your boyfriend about it instead of allowing those feelings to build and cause resentment.
      That's a good answer.

      No level of affection between consenting adults is inappropriate in their own home as they aren't violating existing agreements with others. Mutual, consensual affection should not be discouraged by others. People, in general, could benefit from more affection.

      Polyamory and Feminism

      Ever hear that polygamy is patriarchal, often because someone thinks all polygamy is religion-based polygyny? Well you can listen to a podcast asking if feminism is incompatible with monogamy.
      Some question whether monogamy is a patriarchal invention that mainly benefits men and functions as a mechanism of control. In response, some people practice non-monogamy as an alternative. But is non-monogamy necessarily 'more' feminist? Is monogamy necessarily contradictory to feminist ideals?

      I'm a male, and have always been a male, and my humble opinion is that it is feminist to raise girls to be women empowered to be independent and truly free to make their own choices about their relationships. A woman, like a man, should be free to share love, sex, residence, and marriage with any consenting adults, without prosecution, bullying, stigmas, shaming, double-standards, or discrimination. Some people need monogamy. Others are polyamorous. Some can be happy either in monogamous or polyamorous relationships. Others feel more fulfilled in some form of ethical nonmonogamy that might not be described as polyamory. Nobody should be telling a grown woman that she can't have the kind of relationship she desires and mutually enters with other adults.
      In this episode, your host, Meghan Murphy speaks with Meg Barker, senior lecturer in psychology at the Open University, a sex and relationship therapist, and the author of Rewriting the Rules: An Integrative Guide to Love, Sex and Relationships about some of the reasons people might enter into non-monogamous relationships as well as some of the challenges they might face. Later on the show we hear from Katie, an undergraduate student in her late twenties, who shares her experiences navigating a non-monogamous relationship as a feminist.
      If you listen, let me know what you think.

      Polyamory and Feminism

      Ever hear that polygamy is patriarchal, often because someone thinks all polygamy is religion-based polygyny? Well you can listen to a podcast asking if feminism is incompatible with monogamy.
      Some question whether monogamy is a patriarchal invention that mainly benefits men and functions as a mechanism of control. In response, some people practice non-monogamy as an alternative. But is non-monogamy necessarily 'more' feminist? Is monogamy necessarily contradictory to feminist ideals?

      I'm a male, and have always been a male, and my humble opinion is that it is feminist to raise girls to be women empowered to be independent and truly free to make their own choices about their relationships. A woman, like a man, should be free to share love, sex, residence, and marriage with any consenting adults, without prosecution, bullying, stigmas, shaming, double-standards, or discrimination. Some people need monogamy. Others are polyamorous. Some can be happy either in monogamous or polyamorous relationships. Others feel more fulfilled in some form of ethical nonmonogamy that might not be described as polyamory. Nobody should be telling a grown woman that she can't have the kind of relationship she desires and mutually enters with other adults.
      In this episode, your host, Meghan Murphy speaks with Meg Barker, senior lecturer in psychology at the Open University, a sex and relationship therapist, and the author of Rewriting the Rules: An Integrative Guide to Love, Sex and Relationships about some of the reasons people might enter into non-monogamous relationships as well as some of the challenges they might face. Later on the show we hear from Katie, an undergraduate student in her late twenties, who shares her experiences navigating a non-monogamous relationship as a feminist.
      If you listen, let me know what you think.

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