Showing posts with label cheating. Show all posts
Showing posts with label cheating. Show all posts

Saturday, February 22, 2014

Has Your Partner Experienced Consanguinamory?

I used be active at a certain Big Internet Portal's Question and Answer service, until someone who couldn’t handle me answering questions truthfully when it comes to certain romantic or sexual topics decided to get me "suspended" using a weakness in their automated system. I still will check to see what questions are being asked there, even though I can't participate in any way or even contact anyone there unless they have somehow provided an email address in their question or answer. I will not link to the service, but I will quote it. Someone named Lauren asked this question...

Ok.....complicated one, recently found out my husband and his younger sister had sex for a number of years between the ages of 10-12, this is what he's telling me tho I'm aware this may have more to it? We are a young couple married with two children (boys) my relationship with his family has never been great and this hasn't helped! Can anyone give me any advice or your thoughts on how you would deal with this news? I'm up and down and so confused.....

Questions like this come up more than people might think. Person A is dating or married to Person B and Person A suspects or has found out that Person B has been sexually involved with a sibling or other family member. Person A usually wants to know what they should do.

It is important to clarify the situation by determining the answers to some questions.

1) Is this something that is suspected or has it been confirmed?



Not all families have the same behaviors and boundaries when it comes to physical affection, personal space, joking, and otherwise talking. As such, Person A can look at how Person B interacts with a sibling and think, “I wouldn’t interact with my sibling that way, only a partner” and so think that Person B must have sexual experience with their family member. It isn’t necessarily the case, though. On the other hand, with as common as consanguineous experimentation and sex is, it isn’t unreasonable to wonder.

Unless someone comes right out and makes a clear, credible statement either way, there probably isn’t an easy way to get the truth that will not cause some embarrassment.  One way of handling it could be in expressing needs and negotiating boundaries. Even if someone is monogamous, they should never assume their relationship is monogamous unless that has been explicitly discussed. So perhaps one oblique way of trying to determine if there’s anything current is to say, “I need monogamy. Is that going to be a problem?” Or, if polyamorous, saying “I need to know exactly who else you are going to be having sex with.” Trying to determine if anything happened in the past is going to take being a little less vague. It might be helpful to say something like this, in a nonjudgmental tone: “I was reading that a surprisingly high percentage of people have had sexual experiences with a close family member, enough that everyone knows somebody who has. But I’m not aware of anyone I know who has. Are you?” Depending on how serious the relationship is getting, the questioning can get more direct, because if someone is going to be creating a family with someone else, they should be talking about the dynamics and family history of both families.


2) Was this something that happened in the past or is it ongoing?

If confirmation is obtained, it is important to know whether the sexual aspect of the relationship is likely over for good or if it is ongoing or could easily resume. If it ended, when, why, and how did it end?


3) Was this consensual activity or was it assault/molestation?


I don’t classify assault or molestation as sexual activity or experimentation, as I think those are entirely different things. But as far as abuse or molestation goes, there is a difference between a 12-year-old grabbing his 10-year-old sister once to upset her and realizing it was a terrible thing to do and a 14-year-old forcing themselves on a 7-year-old repeatedly and trying to excuse it with “kids will be kids.” If someone is planning to raise kids with their partner, they should not ignore a history of child abuse.

Some kids engage in mutual exploration or experimentation. Most therapists don’t consider it abusive if minor family members close in age explore by mutual agreement. A 13-year-old and a 12-year-old might be curious. A 20-year-old and an 18-year-old might be in love. And that brings us to another question.


4) If this was a consensual thing in the past, was it a one-time event, a casual family-with-benefits thing, a love affair, or what?

They may have engaged in everything from a one-time instance of playing doctor or some other game, or had an ongoing love affair that they thought was going to last forever. Or perhaps there was something in between. That matters.


Discovering that your partner is cheating on you, deeply in love with a sibling, is a different matter than finding out that your partner used to masturbate in front of a sibling when they were teens, for mutual enjoyment, and both are different than finding out that your partner assaulted three relatives.

Going back to the question that prompted this entry, it wasn’t clear whether both of the siblings were "10-12" or not. Assuming they were close in age, it was not a matter of abuse, and everything ended before they were even teenagers, then there’s nothing for Lauren to do, unless she thinks it is causing ongoing problems in her marriage, in which case she should seek marriage therapy and perhaps individual therapy. If he is a good father and a good husband, she should be happy knowing that he chose to marry her and loves her. That should outweigh what happened in his childhood, even if she thinks what happened is wrong.

All of the above refers to interaction with siblings, cousins or even aunts/uncles who are close in age. There is a different dynamic if the involvement was with an older aunt/uncle, parent, or grandparent (or, in the case of someone who is older, an adult child). Again, abuse is a whole different matter than consensual sex between adults. But consensual adult intergenerational sex does happen, perhaps not as often as intragenerational, but it happens.

If someone is not in a committed relationship, but is rather just dating someone, and they think the other person is “too close” to a family member, they are entirely free to stop seeing them. A casual outsider is not going to change family dynamics, and trying to do so will likely make everyone unhappy. Who wants to be suspicious that their partner is cheating with anyone, let alone a family member? A consanguinamorous bond can be an especially powerful one, and if someone suspects they are dating someone who is has such a bond, issuing an ultimatum will likely mean the dating will end.

Like anything else about a partner’s sexual history, it comes down to knowing what you’ll accept and what you won’t (and what you need to know to begin with). While you may be missing out on a great partner if you “can’t” accept some of the consensual sex in their past or that they will not tell you something, it isn’t a good idea to get in deeper with someone if you’re going to end up holding that aspect of their past against them.

Conversely, if you'll love them and let them know they can be honest with you about their past and whether or not it (still) holds an erotic charge for them, you can have a great time or a great life together, especially if you are willing to sometimes play off of that history in fantasies.

Saturday, February 8, 2014

How Nonmonogamous People Can Avoid Trouble


Believe it or not, there are still criminal laws in many places criminalizing consensual sex and relationships between adults.

It doesn't matter to them how loving, happy, and lasting the relationships are. It apparently doesn't matter to the people interfering that every dollar or minute they spend trying to stop consenting adults from loving each other is a dollar or minute that could instead go into protecting people, especially children, against predators.

In addition to the persecution and prosecution of consanguinamorous people, polyamorists, polygamists, and other ethical nonmonogamists can face discrimination and even prosecution.
Some awesome people put together a very helpful lists of state laws for polyamorous people in the US or considering moving to the US. First, note the disclaimer that there is an ever-present at the bottom of this blog. I'll mostly repeat it here:

The focus of this blog is consenting adults. This blog does not advocate anyone engage in activity that is currently illegal in their jurisdiction; it does advocate changing or repealing any law that prevents the freedom of association, love, and full marriage equality for adults. This blog condemns rape, sexual assault, and child molestation, and does not provide medical, therapeutic, legal, financial, or cooking advice. This blog links to other sites for informational purposes; it does not necessarily support everything at those links.
OK, with that out of the way, I'll continue as a friend.


Please keep in mind that while a state may not have a law against "fornication" (sex outside of a legal marriage), "adultery" (when a married person has sex with someone other than her or his legal spouse), or cohabitation, it might still criminalize consensual sex between close relatives (whether genetically related, steprelation, or adoptive). For more information about that, see here. Also, laws on the books may be rarely or selectively enforced, so it it s good to consult an attorney familiar with the laws of a state as well as actual criminal and civil cases in that state and general legal climate.

While most nonmonogamists never get prosecuted or sued, the threat is always there in many places.

With states that allow a legally married spouse to get an advantage in a divorce by citing adultery or sue their spouse's lover for financial compensation, the only way to be sure of avoiding a problem is to simply avoid the risk entirely by not getting involved with someone who is legally married, or, if you are legally married, not getting involved with anyone other than your spouse. Even if everyone is enthusiastic at first or at the time of the sex or relationship, someone can still use the law to get what they see as revenge should things tum cold.

State By State


All 50 US states have statutes against bigamy/polygamy (multiple licensed marriages). In most states, bigamy is a felony.

In the following states, bigamy is a misdemeanor. However, once the penalty is paid, you are back at square one.

Alaska
Arkansas
Hawaii (petty misdemeanor-- 30 days in jail)
Iowa
Maine
Missouri
Montana
Nebraska
New Jersey
Ohio
Pennsylvania
Rhode Island (misdemeanor, $1000)
Tennessee
Texas

The following lists are ordered by which states have the most promise statutorily. The first list is the best, the last list is the worst.

The following states, have no statutes against  fornication, adultery, or cohabitation, and they also do not recognize common-law marriages (which assigns marital status to people who might not want to be considered married).

California
Hawaii
Nevada
Oregon
Washington

The following states have statutes that concern adultery, but none for fornication, cohabitation, or common-law marriage. In some of them adultery is grounds for divorce only. In others the offending spouse simply forfeits any rights to the innocent spouse's estate. In the rest of them, adultery is a crime that can only be prosecuted by the offended spouse. In a successful polygamous relationship, these need not be obstructive. If the relationship fails, however, the statutory adulterer will be charged.

Connecticut
Delaware
Indiana
Kentucky
Louisiana
Maine
Maryland (Adultery results in a $10 fine and is grounds for divorce)
Missouri
New Jersey
Ohio
South Dakota
Tennessee
Texas (Texas does recognize common-law marriages, but apparently only if they are registered with the county clerk)
Vermont

Both states make adultery and fornication misdemeanors, although in Illinois the conduct must be "open and notorious." For interest's sake, we have listed all of the states whose statutes are no worse than Georgia or Illinois. This only means that in these states you are as likely as not, to be able to find a lawyer who will talk to you.

Arizona
Georgia
Illinois
Michigan
Minnesota
New Hampshire (New Hampshire recognizes common-law marriages, but only for inheritance purposes after death)
New Mexico
New York
North Dakota

The following states have laws against cohabitation.

Alabama
Alaska
Arkansas
Florida
Massachusetts
Mississippi
Nebraska
North Carolina
South Carolina
Virginia
West Virginia
Wyoming

The following states recognize common-law marriages, or else make adultery a felony, and are not on the previous lists.

Colorado
Idaho
Iowa
Kansas
Montana
Oklahoma
Pennsylvania
Rhode Island
Utah
Washington D.C.
Wisconsin

How do people minimize the risk of losing in court? What can nonmonogamists do to protect themselves? Any of these steps might help...

1) Consult a lawyer. I am not a lawyer. A criminal defense or family law attorney might be someone well worth consulting.

2) Move to more enlightened states or countries.

3) Be careful who you tell and what you tell them. In the US, we have a Constitutional right against self-incrimination (see 5th Amendment) and the right to remain silent when arrested by law enforcement. It's a good idea when dealing with police to give them polite, brief "yes" or "no" or "I don't know" or "I don't remember" answers unless even one of those could incriminate you. In the US, you also have the right to an attorney and it is a good idea speak up and ask for a lawyer if you're held or taken in by police. Also in the US, unless there is imminent danger to someone, you don't have the let police into your home without a search warrant, and even search warrants can have limits. YOU may think something is obvious and gives you away, the police may even have figured it out, but staying silent about it can still protect you.

4) Be careful what you document. Many lovers enjoy taking video or pictures of themselves having fun with each other, but for the nonmonogamous, such media, if it falls into the wrong hands, can be trouble.

5) Have a cover story. Anticipate questions, whether from those you know you or those who don't who might not approve. Historically, it isn't unusual for a home to have three or more adults.

6) Know your risk in raising children. Not only will children have to deal with the prejudice of others, but children may also provide testimony that goes against you, often unwittingly.

7) Stick to private places and lock the door when you get to the fun.


Note that most ethicists say it is OK to lie to authorities who are trying to enforce unjust laws or policies. An extreme example is a Nazi SS officer asking you, "Are you hiding any Jews here?" It was ethical to say "No." Well, I think that applies here, too, though the situation is not as extreme. It is nobody else's business if adults are having consensual sex or relationships.

This advice shouldn't even be necessary, but until we get to the point where we have relationship rights for all adults, including full marriage equality, nonmonogamists should think about protecting themselves. Of course, some level of trouble is necessary to make change. Laws need to be overturned in courts or changed by legislatures, but it is up to each set of lovers to decide for themselves if they want to come out of the closet and to push for those things. The more other people realize that ethical nonomonogamy is a reality all around them, the sooner the persecution will be greatly reduced.

Police officers usually have some wiggle-room when it comes to investigating or arresting people can can look the other way if they choose. Prosecutors can choose not to prosecute. Judges can dismiss cases. Juries can refuse to convict (research jury nullification). So I beg these people to let consenting adults love each other without harassment, without prosecution.

Do you have any suggestions? Any tales to tell about what you've done to protect yourself? What do you think, dear reader? Leave a comment or email me.

Sunday, January 12, 2014

Genetic Sexual Attraction, Incest, and Consanguinamory


To act, or not to act, that is the question.

As always, I am talking about consensual sex, not molestation, assault, or rape.

Close relatives may experience mutual attraction as a result of Genetic Sexual Attraction (GSA), Genetic Attraction, Familial Sexual Attraction, or some other experience or phenomenon. I’m addressing these together because they all involve close relatives. These things can lead to incest (consanguineous sex, or consanguinamory) in the form of sibling sex, parent-adult child sex, cousin sex, etc. It may also lead to marriage or spousal relationships. While all sexual activity related to these can be called consanguineous, GSA-initiated consanguinamory is a special subset and it should be noted that opinions of those who have been in such relationships towards non-GSA consanguinamory range from support to indifference to uneasiness to condemnation.

Speaking of GSA, there is a split in the GSA community about whether to act or not (or to stop acting). Many people who have experienced GSA, prior to having the experience, had never considered the possibility of being attracted to a close relative and may have thought the idea disgusting, but they found themselves attracted to a close biological relative anyway. Those in the GSA community against acting or continuing to act have various motivations; a bad personal experience acting on GSA, a priority of obedience to laws (even if unjust), their personal sexual mores, and perhaps for some, intense emotion about something they never had or can no longer have. They may very well think they are sparing others pain by urging them not to act. But others say the pain for them was in delaying the reality that they had been reunited with someone who was now their true love.

I deal with common arguments against the rights to share love, sex, residence, and marriage on this page. But just because one should have the right to share these things with a relative doesn’t mean they should share these things in any given case. That is the point of why I am writing this.

ALL romantic or sexual relationships are emotionally risky. Most do not work out, or most of us would still be in our first one. As with any relationship, you should be the one making that decision for you, not anybody else. Don't let others decide for you. There are trade-offs and emotional risks in any relationship. With a possible consanguinamorous relationship, there are generally pros and cons, and with GSA, there is likely to be pain and struggle no matter what course is taken. Ultimately, each situation can have different factors than others, but there are some general considerations I will address.

If there is mutual attraction, and that is a big if, there are many things that should be considered before becoming more physically intimate. Notice that to one extent or another, these apply to relationships with nonrelatives as well.

First, the cautionary considerations…



1. Is this person right for you, right now? In this stage of your life, are you looking for a spouse? A partner? A roommate? A date? A dance partner? A friend-with-benefits? Is this person a good choice for that? (With a GSA situation, you may not know until you spend more time with them; some other times, you already know they aren’t. If you have been with this close relative all of your life, you should have a fairly good idea either way, which is one of the advantages of consanguinamory.) We’ve all known people, perhaps ourselves, who have been attracted to someone who is all wrong for us, or at least we were wrong for each other in that stage of our lives. Nobody should voluntarily subject themselves to a toxic person, relative or not, and some people aren't toxic, but they just aren't right for you because of personality differences, lifestyle differences, and wanting different things out of life. With parent-adult child GSA, there is sometimes (not always) a good reason why the child was kept away from the adult, or given away by the adult; sometimes in those cases, things have gotten better in the decades since. Whether or not a person is right for you may have to do whether you are just looking for recreation, a release, to express your love, or satisfy a curiosity.

2. Is it cheating? I am against cheating. I also generally support keeping a family together. This means that if one has existing vows to another that preclude entering into this new (or new level of) relationship, especially if there are children being raised in that home, I would urge against it. In a perfect world, everyone would talk it over and the addition would be accommodated, but I know this would be extremely unlikely in a relationship where closed monogamy is expected, or even in open or polyamorous relationships where someone doesn’t want to give up status as the primary.

Genetic Sexual Attraction presents a special situation as overwhelmingly powerful feelings flood a person, often suddenly and without warning. There still isn’t much awareness about GSA. Thus, you can have someone who would not otherwise violate their vows to another/others do that very thing. For example, there can be a woman happily married to a man in monogamous, closed marriage, and she would never have an affair with a coworker or neighbor or the brother with whom she was raised. But one day she finds out she has a slightly older half brother or one her age, and upon meeting, they have a powerful attraction and start to spend a lot of time together and engage in constant communication. Just their mere emotional bonding may be threatening to her husband; all the more so if the relationship becomes sexual. There is the possibility that if the husband remains, his wife may return to monogamy with him. But there is also the possibility that she will leave him for her half brother.


3. Are you willing to deal with the possible fallout? Emotional relationships will always have fallout, but with consanguinamory there can be legal, professional, familial, and social fallout. This blog supports the right of consenting adults to share love, sex, residence, and marriage with any consenting adults, but the present reality is that consanguinamory is illegal in many places, and even if not illegal, not legally protected. It is also looked down upon by some who take it upon themselves to be concerned with the love lives of others. Thus, coming out or being outed may result in prosecution, discrimination, bullying, and jealousy on the part of others. These factors can be minimized through moving to a location where consanguineous sex is not illegal or not prosecuted, and/or where your biological connection is not known. Discretion can be absolutely essential. There are too many power-hungry people in legislatures and law enforcement (and it only takes a few) who want to interfere in the love and sex lives of others, and much hateful prejudice among others who will discriminate against and harass your family if they find out something like this

4. Is there a possibility of a sexually transmitted infection?


5. If this is heterosexual, has fertility, the possibility of pregnancy, and contraception been discussed?

Now, for some encouragement…

6. There ARE people in lasting, happy, consanguinamorous relationships, some with the support of family and friends; there are people who had positive experiences with youthful experimentation or play.

7. Consanguineous sex, consanguinamory, and consanguineous marriages are not new things, nor are they rare. The fact is, these things have been going on for literally all of human history in various cultures and every level of society. From the rich to the poor, royalty to commoners, educated to ignorant, urban to rural, young to elderly, close family members have done everything from engaging in playful experimentation to forming lasting spousal relationships. Consanguineous sex is normal, natural, common, and can be enjoyable and beneficial.

8. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. If you’re right for each other, don’t deny yourselves, deny each other, or waste the lives of others by entangling them in an effort to avoid your true love. As a wise person who has been there puts it, “I ran from the one person who would have supported and loved me for who I am, not who he wanted me to be, or for what I could do for him and my children and I have paid the price for two decades.” Fortunately, there is a happy ending in that case.


9. It can be a wonderful experience or even a deep and abiding love. If the situation is just a matter of curiosity and exploration, who better to learn with? But if it is more than that, be assured that consanguineous lovers often report that consanguinamory is deep and powerful; that other relationships pale in comparison. It is a special bond that brings happiness, a caring partner, and security. Who cares for you more?

10. In instances of GSA, it can be positive compensation for something that was lost and can never be regained.


If there is love; mutual attraction, trust, and respect; compatibility in availability, goals, personalities, personal styles and habits (notice that these may take some time together to determine); and the above considerations have been made, don’t let anyone stop you.

Refer your family and friends to THIS page.

You may want to check out:

Suppression Brings Ongoing Pain

Avoid Hurtful People

Hate Adds Pain to Genetic Sexual Attraction

You can also contact me through fullmarriageequality at yahoo dot com.

(Edited to correct errors and for clarification)

Friday, December 27, 2013

Samoa Still Prosecuting Consenting Adults

We've noted the law and prosecutions in Samoa before. Like many other places, including most US states, adults are still criminally prosecuted for having consensual sex. Sarai Ripine reported at samoaobserver.ws that a father and daughter both tried to take the "blame" away from each other. That sounds like love at work.
A father and daughter have both claimed they were the first to ask for sex with each other. A 28-year-old woman facing incest charges has told the Supreme Court it was she who asked her father, not the other way around. The father told police he asked first.

Both she and her father have pleaded guilty to incest charges.
She is 28. She is capable of consenting to sex. While they each tried to protect the other in this case, I think in some cases the lovers might end up with the parent or older sibling taking all of the "blame," even to the point of the younger person saying it wasn't consensual, as it spares the younger person from being prosecuted. If the option is one of gets a criminal prosecution and a "sex offender" brand or they both get that, it is better, they figure, that only of them gets it. This is NOT to deny that assaults aren't happening, perpetrated by a parent or older sibling. They certainly are, but those are an entirely different matter than consensual sex, which is what I'm talking about here.




According to the Police summary of facts, the woman and her father, 54, talked together in front of their house on a night between 1st and 31st May 2013, while the mother was in Savai’i. The father told his daughter how her mother was suspicious of the nature of the relationship between the two of them. The daughter told her father she could not understand why her mother was angry with her, police said.

However, the two were attracted to each other. That same night, the father asked his daughter to have an affair with him, and she agreed.
This blog does not promote breaking existing vows to others (cheating). Rather, in an ideal world, vows and other mutual agreements would be renegotiated or ended before cheating could happen. However, very few places still have legal sanctions against cheaters, and this criminal case was not a prosecution for cheating, but for "incest." That's ridiculous.
When the mother came back from Savai’i she heard what had happened between her husband and daughter. She reported them to a matai family member and the matai took that issue to the village council. The pair was punished by the village. The police case was contradicted by the probation report.

This is the mother's business, and that of the two lovers. It is nobody else's.





Justices Vui Clarence Nelson asked the girl to confirm that she told Probation that it was her seeking sex from her father, not the other way around. She said the Probation report was correct, that there were two occasions she asked her father, but her father refused both times. It was only by the third time she asked him that her father agreed.

Justice Nelson said he needed time to read all the documents relating to this matter.

The pair was remanded in custody until Monday 13 January 2014 for sentencing.
How ridiculous that public resources are being wasted this way. I have to wonder if this was a case of Genetic Sexual Attraction. No information is provided about whether or not the father has been in the daughter's life all along. It is a reminder that people in consanguinamorous relationships should protect themselves, because even if there is not cheating, some jealous or envious person could rat lovers out.

Samoa Still Prosecuting Consenting Adults

We've noted the law and prosecutions in Samoa before. Like many other places, including most US states, adults are still criminally prosecuted for having consensual sex. Sarai Ripine reported at samoaobserver.ws that a father and daughter both tried to take the "blame" away from each other. That sounds like love at work.
A father and daughter have both claimed they were the first to ask for sex with each other. A 28-year-old woman facing incest charges has told the Supreme Court it was she who asked her father, not the other way around. The father told police he asked first.

Both she and her father have pleaded guilty to incest charges.
She is 28. She is capable of consenting to sex. While they each tried to protect the other in this case, I think in some cases the lovers might end up with the parent or older sibling taking all of the "blame," even to the point of the younger person saying it wasn't consensual, as it spares the younger person from being prosecuted. If the option is one of gets a criminal prosecution and a "sex offender" brand or they both get that, it is better, they figure, that only of them gets it. This is NOT to deny that assaults aren't happening, perpetrated by a parent or older sibling. They certainly are, but those are an entirely different matter than consensual sex, which is what I'm talking about here.




According to the Police summary of facts, the woman and her father, 54, talked together in front of their house on a night between 1st and 31st May 2013, while the mother was in Savai’i. The father told his daughter how her mother was suspicious of the nature of the relationship between the two of them. The daughter told her father she could not understand why her mother was angry with her, police said.

However, the two were attracted to each other. That same night, the father asked his daughter to have an affair with him, and she agreed.
This blog does not promote breaking existing vows to others (cheating). Rather, in an ideal world, vows and other mutual agreements would be renegotiated or ended before cheating could happen. However, very few places still have legal sanctions against cheaters, and this criminal case was not a prosecution for cheating, but for "incest." That's ridiculous.
When the mother came back from Savai’i she heard what had happened between her husband and daughter. She reported them to a matai family member and the matai took that issue to the village council. The pair was punished by the village. The police case was contradicted by the probation report.

This is the mother's business, and that of the two lovers. It is nobody else's.





Justices Vui Clarence Nelson asked the girl to confirm that she told Probation that it was her seeking sex from her father, not the other way around. She said the Probation report was correct, that there were two occasions she asked her father, but her father refused both times. It was only by the third time she asked him that her father agreed.

Justice Nelson said he needed time to read all the documents relating to this matter.

The pair was remanded in custody until Monday 13 January 2014 for sentencing.
How ridiculous that public resources are being wasted this way. I have to wonder if this was a case of Genetic Sexual Attraction. No information is provided about whether or not the father has been in the daughter's life all along. It is a reminder that people in consanguinamorous relationships should protect themselves, because even if there is not cheating, some jealous or envious person could rat lovers out.

Tuesday, November 19, 2013

Has Your Partner Experienced Consanguinamory?

I used be active at a certain Big Internet Portal's Question and Answer service, until someone who couldn’t handle me answering questions truthfully when it comes to certain romantic or sexual topics decided to get me "suspended" using a weakness in their automated system. I still will check to see what questions are being asked there, even though I can't participate in any way or even contact anyone there unless they have somehow provided an email address in their question or answer. I will not link to the service, but I will quote it. Someone named Lauren recently asked this question...

Ok.....complicated one, recently found out my husband and his younger sister had sex for a number of years between the ages of 10-12, this is what he's telling me tho I'm aware this may have more to it? We are a young couple married with two children (boys) my relationship with his family has never been great and this hasn't helped! Can anyone give me any advice or your thoughts on how you would deal with this news? I'm up and down and so confused.....

Questions like this come up more than people might think. Person A is dating or married to Person B and Person A suspects or has found out that Person B has been sexually involved with a sibling or other family member. Person A usually wants to know what they should do.

It is important to clarify the situation by determining the answers to some questions.

1) Is this something that is suspected or has it been confirmed?



Not all families have the same behaviors and boundaries when it comes to physical affection, personal space, joking, and otherwise talking. As such, Person A can look at how Person B interacts with a sibling and think, “I wouldn’t interact with my sibling that way, only a partner” and so think that Person B must have sexual experience with their family member. It isn’t necessarily the case, though. On the other hand, with as common as consanguineous experimentation and sex is, it isn’t unreasonable to wonder.

Unless someone comes right out and makes a clear, credible statement either way, there probably isn’t an easy way to get the truth that will not cause some embarrassment.  One way of handling it could be in expressing needs and negotiating boundaries. Even if someone is monogamous, they should never assume their relationship is monogamous unless that has been explicitly discussed. So perhaps one oblique way of trying to determine if there’s anything current is to say, “I need monogamy. Is that going to be a problem?” Or, if polyamorous, saying “I need to know exactly who else you are going to be having sex with.” Trying to determine if anything happened in the past is going to take being a little less vague. It might be helpful to say something like this, in a nonjudgmental tone: “I was reading that a surprisingly high percentage of people have had sexual experiences with a close family member, enough that everyone knows somebody who has. But I’m not aware of anyone I know who has. Are you?” Depending on how serious the relationship is getting, the questioning can get more direct, because if someone is going to be creating a family with someone else, they should be talking about the dynamics and family history of both families.


2) Was this something that happened in the past or is it ongoing?

If confirmation is obtained, it is important to know whether the sexual aspect of the relationship is likely over for good or if it is ongoing or could easily resume. If it ended, when, why, and how did it end?


3) Was this consensual activity or was it assault/molestation?


I don’t classify assault or molestation as sexual activity or experimentation, as I think those are entirely different things. But as far as abuse or molestation goes, there is a difference between a 12-year-old grabbing his 10-year-old sister once to upset her and realizing it was a terrible thing to do and a 14-year-old forcing themselves on a 7-year-old repeatedly and trying to excuse it with “kids will be kids.” If someone is planning to raise kids with their partner, they should not ignore a history of child abuse.

Some kids engage in mutual exploration or experimentation. Most therapists don’t consider it abusive if minor family members close in age explore by mutual agreement. A 13-year-old and a 12-year-old might be curious. A 20-year-old and an 18-year-old might be in love. And that brings us to another question.


4) If this was a consensual thing in the past, was it a one-time event, a casual family-with-benefits thing, a love affair, or what?

They may have engaged in everything from a one-time instance of playing doctor or some other game, or had an ongoing love affair that they thought was going to last forever. Or perhaps there was something in between. That matters.


Discovering that your partner is cheating on you, deeply in love with a sibling, is a different matter than finding out that your partner used to masturbate in front of a sibling when they were teens, for mutual enjoyment, and both are different than finding out that your partner assaulted three relatives.

Going back to the question that prompted this entry, it wasn’t clear whether both of the siblings were "10-12" or not. Assuming they were close in age, it was not a matter of abuse, and everything ended before they were even teenagers, then there’s nothing for Lauren to do, unless she thinks it is causing ongoing problems in her marriage, in which case she should seek marriage therapy and perhaps individual therapy. If he is a good father and a good husband, she should be happy knowing that he chose to marry her and loves her. That should outweigh what happened in his childhood, even if she thinks what happened is wrong.

All of the above refers to interaction with siblings, cousins or even aunts/uncles who are close in age. There is a different dynamic if the involvement was with an older aunt/uncle, parent, or grandparent (or, in the case of someone who is older, an adult child). Again, abuse is a whole different matter than consensual sex between adults. But consensual adult intergenerational sex does happen, perhaps not as often as intragenerational, but it happens.

If someone is not in a committed relationship, but is rather just dating someone, and they think the other person is “too close” to a family member, they are entirely free to stop seeing them. A casual outsider is not going to change family dynamics, and trying to do so will likely make everyone unhappy. Who wants to be suspicious that their partner is cheating with anyone, let alone a family member? A consanguinamorous bond can be an especially powerful one, and if someone suspects they are dating someone who is has such a bond, issuing an ultimatum will likely mean the dating will end.

Like anything else about a partner’s sexual history, it comes down to knowing what you’ll accept and what you won’t (and what you need to know to begin with). While you may be missing out on a great partner if you “can’t” accept some of the consensual sex in their past or that they will not tell you something, it isn’t a good idea to get in deeper with someone if you’re going to end up holding that aspect of their past against them.

Conversely, if you'll love them and let them know they can be honest with you about their past and whether or not it (still) holds an erotic charge for them, you can have a great time or a great life together, especially if you are willing to sometimes play off of that history in fantasies.

Wednesday, November 13, 2013

Entertainment Media Needs a Fresh Perspective

Movie and television stars in the US are still expected, judging by media coverage, to have love lives that fall into a few narrow molds, and many apparently feel the pressure to present themselves as hetero-monogamous. Gays and lesbians are becoming more accepted, but many are still closeted or avoid public appearances with their partners. Bisexuality is accepted in women much more than men. For the most part, stars are expected to be monogamous, or at least serially monogamous; dates or encounters with others are portrayed as scandalous or a sign that their prior known relationship is over. There are a few exceptions, such as Playboy founder Hugh Hefner, but for the most part, stars are "supposed" to be with just one person or just date casually.

Anyone who thinks for more than a minute beyond the superficial publicist-prepared portrayals realizes that there must be stars who haven't come out as LGBT or polyamorous, or in open relationships, or as swingers or swappers, just by percentages alone.

I bring all of this up because of something at thedailybeast.com by


Jada Pinkett Smith and Will Smith
Jada Pinkett Smith and Will Smith. (Getty)





But in April, Jada Smith told Huff Post Live: “I’ve always told Will, ‘You can do whatever you want as long as you can look at yourself in the mirror and be OK. Because at the end of the day, Will is his own man,” she said. “It comes from respecting that you are in a partnership and that also you are an individual as well.”
Later, she clarified in a Facebook post: “Will and I BOTH can do WHATEVER we want, because we TRUST each other to do so. This does NOT mean we have an open relationship…this means we have a GROWN one.”
Grown is a good word.

People are often threatened by open relationships, says Rachel Kramer Bussel, a sex writer and editor of The Big Book of Orgasms, because it seems so exotic and weird when compared to the status quo.
“We just don’t have any formal model for a public couple having an open relationship."
That's a very important point. We need more honest portrayals not only in fiction, but in nonfiction as well.

There is at least one celebrity who is open about her relationship: Mo’Nique has told Barbara Walters she’s got an understanding with her husband.

She said: “Could Sid have sex outside of his marriage with me? Yes. That’s not a deal-breaker,” she says. “That’s not something that would make us say, ‘Pack your things and let’s end the marriage.’ What if it’s 20 times? So what? we’ve been best friends for over 25 years, and we truly know who we are. Oftentimes, people get into marriages and they don’t know who they’re laying next to. I’m very comfortable and secure with my husband.”


Good for them!

It's a good article, although I would've liked some clarification of terms. An "open marriage" is not synonymous with polyamory. There are many people in polyamorous relationships that are not open, for example. There are stars who haven't been outed as LGBT, or as asexual, or as polyamorous, or as in open relationships, or in consangiunamorous relationships. They are people and they have their sexual orientation, gender identity, and relationships that do not have to be ours to know, but I will support any of them that do come out and be grateful that in doing so, they help move us towards all adults being free to share love, sex, residence, and marriage with any and all consenting adults.

Entertainment Media Needs a Fresh Perspective

Movie and television stars in the US are still expected, judging by media coverage, to have love lives that fall into a few narrow molds, and many apparently feel the pressure to present themselves as hetero-monogamous. Gays and lesbians are becoming more accepted, but many are still closeted or avoid public appearances with their partners. Bisexuality is accepted in women much more than men. For the most part, stars are expected to be monogamous, or at least serially monogamous; dates or encounters with others are portrayed as scandalous or a sign that their prior known relationship is over. There are a few exceptions, such as Playboy founder Hugh Hefner, but for the most part, stars are "supposed" to be with just one person or just date casually.

Anyone who thinks for more than a minute beyond the superficial publicist-prepared portrayals realizes that there must be stars who haven't come out as LGBT or polyamorous, or in open relationships, or as swingers or swappers, just by percentages alone.

I bring all of this up because of something at thedailybeast.com by


Jada Pinkett Smith and Will Smith
Jada Pinkett Smith and Will Smith. (Getty)





But in April, Jada Smith told Huff Post Live: “I’ve always told Will, ‘You can do whatever you want as long as you can look at yourself in the mirror and be OK. Because at the end of the day, Will is his own man,” she said. “It comes from respecting that you are in a partnership and that also you are an individual as well.”
Later, she clarified in a Facebook post: “Will and I BOTH can do WHATEVER we want, because we TRUST each other to do so. This does NOT mean we have an open relationship…this means we have a GROWN one.”
Grown is a good word.

People are often threatened by open relationships, says Rachel Kramer Bussel, a sex writer and editor of The Big Book of Orgasms, because it seems so exotic and weird when compared to the status quo.
“We just don’t have any formal model for a public couple having an open relationship."
That's a very important point. We need more honest portrayals not only in fiction, but in nonfiction as well.

There is at least one celebrity who is open about her relationship: Mo’Nique has told Barbara Walters she’s got an understanding with her husband.

She said: “Could Sid have sex outside of his marriage with me? Yes. That’s not a deal-breaker,” she says. “That’s not something that would make us say, ‘Pack your things and let’s end the marriage.’ What if it’s 20 times? So what? we’ve been best friends for over 25 years, and we truly know who we are. Oftentimes, people get into marriages and they don’t know who they’re laying next to. I’m very comfortable and secure with my husband.”


Good for them!

It's a good article, although I would've liked some clarification of terms. An "open marriage" is not synonymous with polyamory. There are many people in polyamorous relationships that are not open, for example. There are stars who haven't been outed as LGBT, or as asexual, or as polyamorous, or as in open relationships, or in consangiunamorous relationships. They are people and they have their sexual orientation, gender identity, and relationships that do not have to be ours to know, but I will support any of them that do come out and be grateful that in doing so, they help move us towards all adults being free to share love, sex, residence, and marriage with any and all consenting adults.

Sunday, November 10, 2013

How Nonmonogamous People Can Avoid Trouble


Believe it or not, there are still criminal laws in many places criminalizing consensual sex and relationships between adults.

It doesn't matter to them how loving, happy, and lasting the relationships are. It apparently doesn't matter to the people interfering that every dollar or minute they spend trying to stop consenting adults from loving each other is a dollar or minute that could instead go into protecting people, especially children, against predators.

In addition to the persecution and prosecution of consanguinamorous people, polyamorists, polygamists, and other ethical nonmonogamists can face discrimination and even prosecution.
Some awesome people put together a very helpful lists of state laws for polyamorous people in the US or considering moving to the US. First, note the disclaimer that there is an ever-present at the bottom of this blog. I'll mostly repeat it here:

The focus of this blog is consenting adults. This blog does not advocate anyone engage in activity that is currently illegal in their jurisdiction; it does advocate changing or repealing any law that prevents the freedom of association, love, and full marriage equality for adults. This blog condemns rape, sexual assault, and child molestation, and does not provide medical, therapeutic, legal, financial, or cooking advice. This blog links to other sites for informational purposes; it does not necessarily support everything at those links.
OK, with that out of the way, I'll continue as a friend.


Please keep in mind that while a state may not have a law against "fornication" (sex outside of a legal marriage), "adultery" (when a married person has sex with someone other than her or his legal spouse), or cohabitation, it might still criminalize consensual sex between close relatives (whether genetically related, steprelation, or adoptive). For more information about that, see here. Also, laws on the books may be rarely or selectively enforced, so it it s good to consult an attorney familiar with the laws of a state as well as actual criminal and civil cases in that state and general legal climate.

While most nonmonogamists never get prosecuted or sued, the threat is always there in many places.

With states that allow a legally married spouse to get an advantage in a divorce by citing adultery or sue their spouse's lover for financial compensation, the only way to be sure of avoiding a problem is to simply avoid the risk entirely by not getting involved with someone who is legally married, or, if you are legally married, not getting involved with anyone other than your spouse. Even if everyone is enthusiastic at first or at the time of the sex or relationship, someone can still use the law to get what they see as revenge should things tum cold.

State By State


All 50 US states have statutes against bigamy/polygamy (multiple licensed marriages). In most states, bigamy is a felony.

In the following states, bigamy is a misdemeanor. However, once the penalty is paid, you are back at square one.

Alaska
Arkansas
Hawaii (petty misdemeanor-- 30 days in jail)
Iowa
Maine
Missouri
Montana
Nebraska
New Jersey
Ohio
Pennsylvania
Rhode Island (misdemeanor, $1000)
Tennessee
Texas

The following lists are ordered by which states have the most promise statutorily. The first list is the best, the last list is the worst.

The following states, have no statutes against  fornication, adultery, or cohabitation, and they also do not recognize common-law marriages (which assigns marital status to people who might not want to be considered married).

California
Hawaii
Nevada
Oregon
Washington

The following states have statutes that concern adultery, but none for fornication, cohabitation, or common-law marriage. In some of them adultery is grounds for divorce only. In others the offending spouse simply forfeits any rights to the innocent spouse's estate. In the rest of them, adultery is a crime that can only be prosecuted by the offended spouse. In a successful polygamous relationship, these need not be obstructive. If the relationship fails, however, the statutory adulterer will be charged.

Connecticut
Delaware
Indiana
Kentucky
Louisiana
Maine
Maryland (Adultery results in a $10 fine and is grounds for divorce)
Missouri
New Jersey
Ohio
South Dakota
Tennessee
Texas (Texas does recognize common-law marriages, but apparently only if they are registered with the county clerk)
Vermont

Both states make adultery and fornication misdemeanors, although in Illinois the conduct must be "open and notorious." For interest's sake, we have listed all of the states whose statutes are no worse than Georgia or Illinois. This only means that in these states you are as likely as not, to be able to find a lawyer who will talk to you.

Arizona
Georgia
Illinois
Michigan
Minnesota
New Hampshire (New Hampshire recognizes common-law marriages, but only for inheritance purposes after death)
New Mexico
New York
North Dakota

The following states have laws against cohabitation.

Alabama
Alaska
Arkansas
Florida
Massachusetts
Mississippi
Nebraska
North Carolina
South Carolina
Virginia
West Virginia
Wyoming

The following states recognize common-law marriages, or else make adultery a felony, and are not on the previous lists.

Colorado
Idaho
Iowa
Kansas
Montana
Oklahoma
Pennsylvania
Rhode Island
Utah
Washington D.C.
Wisconsin

How do people minimize the risk of losing in court? What can nonmonogamists do to protect themselves? Any of these steps might help...

1) Consult a lawyer. I am not a lawyer. A criminal defense or family law attorney might be someone well worth consulting.

2) Move to more enlightened states or countries.

3) Be careful who you tell and what you tell them. In the US, we have a Constitutional right against self-incrimination (see 5th Amendment) and the right to remain silent when arrested by law enforcement. It's a good idea when dealing with police to give them polite, brief "yes" or "no" or "I don't know" or "I don't remember" answers unless even one of those could incriminate you. In the US, you also have the right to an attorney and it is a good idea speak up and ask for a lawyer if you're held or taken in by police. Also in the US, unless there is imminent danger to someone, you don't have the let police into your home without a search warrant, and even search warrants can have limits. YOU may think something is obvious and gives you away, the police may even have figured it out, but staying silent about it can still protect you.

4) Be careful what you document. Many lovers enjoy taking video or pictures of themselves having fun with each other, but for the nonmonogamous, such media, if it falls into the wrong hands, can be trouble.

5) Have a cover story. Anticipate questions, whether from those you know you or those who don't who might not approve. Historically, it isn't unusual for a home to have three or more adults.

6) Know your risk in raising children. Not only will children have to deal with the prejudice of others, but children may also provide testimony that goes against you, often unwittingly.
7) Stick to private places and lock the door when you get to the fun.


Note that most ethicists say it is OK to lie to authorities who are trying to enforce unjust laws or policies. An extreme example is a Nazi SS officer asking you, "Are you hiding any Jews here?" It was ethical to say "No." Well, I think that applies here, too, though the situation is not as extreme. It is nobody else's business if adults are having consensual sex or relationships.

This advice shouldn't even be necessary, but until we get to the point where we have relationship rights for all adults, including full marriage equality, nonmonogamists should think about protecting themselves. Of course, some level of trouble is necessary to make change. Laws need to be overturned in courts or changed by legislatures, but it is up to each set of lovers to decide for themselves if they want to come out of the closet and to push for those things. The more other people realize that ethical nonomonogamy is a reality all around them, the sooner the persecution will be greatly reduced.

Police officers usually have some wiggle-room when it comes to investigating or arresting people can can look the other way if they choose. Prosecutors can choose not to prosecute. Judges can dismiss cases. Juries can refuse to convict (research jury nullification). So I beg these people to let consenting adults love each other without harassment, without prosecution.

Do you have any suggestions? Any tales to tell about what you've done to protect yourself? What do you think, dear reader? Leave a comment or email me.

Thursday, October 31, 2013

Like Father, Like Son

Consanguinamory happens between people and their adult children more than most people think. Another forbidden relationship that is, perhaps, even more frequent is between adults and their new stepparent, especially if their stepparent is closer in age to them than their parent. In addition to steprelations being seen as incestuous, another aspect that also makes many of these relationships forbidden is when they involve cheating due to the stepparent violating a vow or agreement with the parent. (Not all have such agreements and thus the relationship with the "stepchild" would not be seen as cheating.)

At islamweb.net there was something that addressed these topics, headlined with attention-grabbing "His wife and son have regular incestuous relations together."

It appears to be an advice column. From the question...
Respected Sheikh, I am a man in my late sixties and recently discovered that my 33 year old wife has regular incestuous relations with my 17 years old son.
A few things to note right away: 1. Although this is not written so as to make clear she is not the biological mother of his son, I think if she was the biological mother of the son that would have been explicitly stated, which is not. 2. She is closer in age to his son than she is him. 3. Seventeen year-old males generally are bursting with hormones and constantly wanting sex. Leave one alone all day with an attractive person and... well, this isn't surprising. 4. It is entirely possible that where they live 17-year-olds can legally consent to sex with 33-year-olds.
When I confronted them they denied it, but one day I came home unexpectedly and found them in the act. They repented and promised not to do it again.
So this was a matter of cheating.
I am devastated and don’t know what to do. I beg you to tell me in the light of the Quran and hadith what course of actions I shall take.
This is, of course, from a Muslim website. Being cheated on, especially when the other person is another person you thought you could trust, is painful. My advice would be to seriously consider if this is unacceptable, and if he needs her to only have sex with him, if he's going to be able to treat her right going forward without going batty. If not, then the marriage should be over. But he didn't ask me. Let's get to the response was given...



First, there was a statement of what sins were committed according to Islamic teaching.
However, if they had both truly repented, then they did well.

Now, if your wife becomes righteous and shows good conduct, then you should keep her and have good marital relations with her and do not hold her accountable for what she had done, but you are obligated not to have sexual relations with her until you make sure that she is not pregnant from Zina by the passing of one menstrual period.

Also, you should be keen on disciplining both of your wife and son and teaching them the matters of their religion as what they did is mostly due to ignorance and negligence.
I doubt they were unaware what the religious authorities would say. They were horny, and perhaps also in love. But we get some more Quranic verses anyway. Then...
On the other hand, if you are suspicious about your son in the future, then you should take the matter firmly in hand and prevent him from being in seclusion with your wife and prevent her from appearing in his presence without Hijaab. Likewise, if you are suspicious about your wife, then there is no good in keeping her as your wife; rather you should divorce her so that she would not contaminate your bed and give birth to children who are not from you.

Finally, it should be noted that committing Zina is generally due to being lenient in matters that lead to it, like a woman appearing in front of men (other than her husband) in an inappropriate manner, like wearing revealing clothes and so forth. So, one should be careful about this.
Ah yes, this was all because she wasn't covered up in a Hijaab. Uh huh.

I do find other cultures' perspectives interesting.

Something people need to keep in mind is that while the Westermarck Effect (reduced sexual attraction) is common between people raised together or by one another, it isn't there when you bring someone new into your adult/post-pubescent child's life, whether that is your new lover, partner or spouse, or any post-pubescent children they have. This man was attracted to this woman. Why wouldn't his son be, too? That doesn't excuse cheating; someone who needs monogamy and has received a pledge of monogamy should expect monogamy as long as they are not neglecting their partner. But if he was living under the assumption that his son and wife were unlikely to be attracted to each other on some level, it was a mistaken assumption, as demonstrated.

Like Father, Like Son

Consanguinamory happens between people and their adult children more than most people think. Another forbidden relationship that is, perhaps, even more frequent is between adults and their new stepparent, especially if their stepparent is closer in age to them than their parent. In addition to steprelations being seen as incestuous, another aspect that also makes many of these relationships forbidden is when they involve cheating due to the stepparent violating a vow or agreement with the parent. (Not all have such agreements and thus the relationship with the "stepchild" would not be seen as cheating.)

At islamweb.net there was something that addressed these topics, headlined with attention-grabbing "His wife and son have regular incestuous relations together."

It appears to be an advice column. From the question...
Respected Sheikh, I am a man in my late sixties and recently discovered that my 33 year old wife has regular incestuous relations with my 17 years old son.
A few things to note right away: 1. Although this is not written so as to make clear she is not the biological mother of his son, I think if she was the biological mother of the son that would have been explicitly stated, which is not. 2. She is closer in age to his son than she is him. 3. Seventeen year-old males generally are bursting with hormones and constantly wanting sex. Leave one alone all day with an attractive person and... well, this isn't surprising. 4. It is entirely possible that where they live 17-year-olds can legally consent to sex with 33-year-olds.
When I confronted them they denied it, but one day I came home unexpectedly and found them in the act. They repented and promised not to do it again.
So this was a matter of cheating.
I am devastated and don’t know what to do. I beg you to tell me in the light of the Quran and hadith what course of actions I shall take.
This is, of course, from a Muslim website. Being cheated on, especially when the other person is another person you thought you could trust, is painful. My advice would be to seriously consider if this is unacceptable, and if he needs her to only have sex with him, if he's going to be able to treat her right going forward without going batty. If not, then the marriage should be over. But he didn't ask me. Let's get to the response was given...



First, there was a statement of what sins were committed according to Islamic teaching.
However, if they had both truly repented, then they did well.

Now, if your wife becomes righteous and shows good conduct, then you should keep her and have good marital relations with her and do not hold her accountable for what she had done, but you are obligated not to have sexual relations with her until you make sure that she is not pregnant from Zina by the passing of one menstrual period.

Also, you should be keen on disciplining both of your wife and son and teaching them the matters of their religion as what they did is mostly due to ignorance and negligence.
I doubt they were unaware what the religious authorities would say. They were horny, and perhaps also in love. But we get some more Quranic verses anyway. Then...
On the other hand, if you are suspicious about your son in the future, then you should take the matter firmly in hand and prevent him from being in seclusion with your wife and prevent her from appearing in his presence without Hijaab. Likewise, if you are suspicious about your wife, then there is no good in keeping her as your wife; rather you should divorce her so that she would not contaminate your bed and give birth to children who are not from you.

Finally, it should be noted that committing Zina is generally due to being lenient in matters that lead to it, like a woman appearing in front of men (other than her husband) in an inappropriate manner, like wearing revealing clothes and so forth. So, one should be careful about this.
Ah yes, this was all because she wasn't covered up in a Hijaab. Uh huh.

I do find other cultures' perspectives interesting.

Something people need to keep in mind is that while the Westermarck Effect (reduced sexual attraction) is common between people raised together or by one another, it isn't there when you bring someone new into your adult/post-pubescent child's life, whether that is your new lover, partner or spouse, or any post-pubescent children they have. This man was attracted to this woman. Why wouldn't his son be, too? That doesn't excuse cheating; someone who needs monogamy and has received a pledge of monogamy should expect monogamy as long as they are not neglecting their partner. But if he was living under the assumption that his son and wife were unlikely to be attracted to each other on some level, it was a mistaken assumption, as demonstrated.

Tuesday, October 29, 2013

Dear Prudence on Consanguinamory in Adult Media

The Dear Prudence column/chat session, penned by Emily Yoffe, addressed topics relevant to this blog again.

Someone was snooping through a boyfriend’s iPad…
I recently opened up Google Chrome on my boyfriend's iPad and it was on private browsing. So I hit “back” a few times,
Nosey, aren’t we?
I found “Find a Shemale Lover” which was attached to a fake Gmail account. I tried logging in using the same password for his computer and BINGO. I went to user history in Gmail and found incest porn. I don't know what to say or think. I confronted him and his reply was, "It's not like I want to be with my mom!" "And I am bored with regular porn." So my question(s) are why do people watch incest porn? I have small nieces, should I be worried? Fine, he's bored, what happens when he runs out of porn genres?
“Incest porn” can mean many different things. Him mentioning his mother makes it sound like this was material depicting men with their mothers. The person with the concern did not indicate otherwise, unless her mentioning of her nieces is an implication that this was child porn, which is an entirely different matter.

People watch incest porn for the same reason they watch any other kind of porn. For arousal, for laughs, out of curiosity, for ideas, to vicariously live something they'll never experience, or to relive something they have experienced.

Porn with incestuous themes is very popular, and his viewing of the material is not an indication that the nieces would be in any danger.

But notice the issue of “find a shemale lover” was not questioned. This did not escape Yoffe…
Why aren't you focusing on the fact that your boyfriend is perusing "Find a Shemale Lover" websites? It's true your boyfriend must be very bored with porn if he needs "incest porn" to get aroused.
Enjoying something does not necessarily mean it is needed.
I think the average person would start envisioning their family members and screaming, "No, not incest porn, I beg you!"
Perhaps, depending on which definition of average we are talking about. Some people do not picture themselves or someone they know in the material they view, such as voyeurs who simply like watching other people. And again, consanguinamory is a very popular theme in erotica. Many people who enjoy it may not have any experience or desire to experience it.
But you are glossing over the fact potentially more germane to you that he's possibly using the Internet to find sexual partners. That could have serious consequences for your health.
Yes, an honest and frank discussion about fantasy and reality would be in order. The writer never said anything about their sex life or any other aspect of the relationship. If things are great, and if he’s not doing or going to be doing anything in real life that the writer has a problem with, then there isn’t an issue.

Following up, someone wrote…
Don't you know that there is not even a gap but an ABYSS between our real-life desires and our fantasies? I'm a female in her mid-30s who enjoys a very normal, monogamous, vanilla sex life. But, for as long as I can remember, regular porn's never turned me on. What does it for me is weird stuff that I myself can't even believe turns me on: fat black lesbians, incest stories (not with children!), and even bestiality. None of these things would ever appeal to me in real life (YUCK!) and there's a good chance that's what's going on with her boyfriend too—please change your answer and let her know there's plenty of us out there who just have an active imagination but no desire to bring it into the real world.
I’m so glad that response was included.

Yoffe answered by supporting fantasy but emphasizing her concerns about child porn and the boyfriend having secret encounters with others.

As with so much porn (or media in general), porn with consanguinamorous themes is not the same thing as reality. There are people in consanguinamorous relationships who do not want to be stared at during their most private moments, but would very much appreciate support for their rights. If the data is any indication, if everyone who enjoys media (erotica or not) with consanguinamory as an element were to support the rights of consanguineous lovers, we'd quickly be closer to full marriage equality.

Thursday, October 17, 2013

Priorities in Law Enforcement, Journalism

An adult man had consensual sex with an adult woman. That shouldn't be a crime, but he was arrested and criminally charged anyway.

An adult woman sexually assaulted a toddler and self (apparently) documented her crime on video. She was criminally charged for her crimes, as she should be.

These things have happened in Wisconsin. But it would be nice to have some clarity and prioritizing in the reports.

Here's a report by Ashley Luthern at jsoline.com with the headline "Oak Creek Woman, Rancine Man Charged in Incest Case"....
The brother of an Oak Creek woman accused of filming her sexual assaults of a young relative was charged Tuesday with incest.
The way that's written, it appears ambiguous as to whether the "accused" refers to the woman or the brother, as in... was the brother accused of filming her, or was she accused of filming herself? Proximity implies the latter. Based on the rest of the story and another report, it doesn't seem like the brother was involved in the abuse of the toddler at all. He is being criminally charged for consensual sex with the woman.
Justin S. Surber, 33, of Racine admitted to police that he had a consensual sexual relationship with his sister, Jessica Bell, from 2012 until May or June 2013, according to a criminal complaint.

Bell, 24, was adopted and didn't find Surber, her biological brother, until last year.

So this sounds like it could be Genetic Sexual Attraction.



Bell also recently was charged in Racine County Circuit Court with two counts of incest, two counts of first-degree sexual assault of a child under the age of 12 and other felonies.
That's a real crime.

The alleged abuse was discovered when Bell's boyfriend became suspicious of Bell's relationship with Surber.

The boyfriend looked at Bell's computer and found videos of Bell forcing the relative, a toddler, to perform sex acts and use sex toys, the complaint stated.
If would be bad enough to find that your girlfriend is cheating on you, but to find out your girlfriend was sexually assaulting toddlers? How horrible.

Here's what was reported at racineuncovered.org, headline with "Racine Man Charged With Incest"...

On October 5, 2013, at approximately 5:48, the Oak Creek Police Department was dispatched to the 500 block of West Puetz Road, to investigate a report that the caller found a video on a computer of Jessica Bell engaged in sexual acts with a toddler. As a result of this investigation, Investigators of the City of Racine Police Department interviewed Jessica Bell. During her interview, Bell stated that she met the suspect in early 2012 after she located her biological family on Face Book. 

This is where it gets into self-incrimination (I mean, in addition to the video...)
Bell stated that her sexual relationship with the suspect began in November of 2012. Bell stated that they had sexual relations three times beginning in November of 2012 until approximately June of 2013.

The suspect was also interviewed by Investigators with the Racine Police Department. According to the criminal complaint the suspect stated that he did have a consensual sexual relationship with his sister, Jessica Bell, and that the relationship was not forced, and he does not remember when the first sexual contact occurred between him and Bell but just stated it “kind of happened”. The suspect told police that they did have sexual intercourse with on more than one occasion and that he believes that they stopped having sexual intercourse sometime in the end of May or early June of 2013. 
Nobody should be charged for consensual adult sex. Anyone involved or complicit in the sexual assault of the toddler should be locked up in a bad place for a long time. If Surber was not involved in the abuse of the toddler, he shouldn't be criminally prosecuted. If Bell is guilty of abusing the child, she should be prosecuted to the full extend of laws dealing with such abuse of children, and not prosecuted for any consensual sex with an adult.

Anyone can experience Genetic Sexual Attraction. That includes great citizens who wouldn't hurt a fly and toxic, abusive people who prey on children.

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