Zambia Keeps Prosecuting Consenting Adults For Marrying

Another news item out of Zambia details the prosecuting of consenting adults in an attempt to break up a marriage. If you think this only happens in Africa, you are sorely mistaken. Where I live, in the US, many states still prosecute in these cases, and it happens in many other countries as well. Chambo Ng'uni reports at dail-mail.co.zm...

A 27-YEAR-OLD man of Kabwe and his young sister aged 20 have appeared in the Kabwe Magistrate’s Court to answer to charges of incest.
 
Aaron Musonda an electrician and Maureen Musonda a grade 12 pupil in Kabwe both appeared before Kabwe resident magistrate John Mbuzi on Thursday for explanation of the charge of incest.

The accused persons are both residents of Makululu Township and they share the same father but different mothers.

So they are half siblings. For all we know they were not raised together and this is a case of Genetic Sexual Attraction.

The police have slapped Musonda with a charge of incest by males contrary to Section 159(1) of the Penal Code Chapter 87 of the laws of Zambia.
 
It is alleged that Musonda on dates unknown but between December 1 last year and February 27 this year in Kabwe, knowing that Maureen was his sister, allegedly had unlawful carnal knowledge of her.
 
His sister has been charged with incest by females, contrary to Section 161 of the Penal Code Chapter 87 of the Laws of Zambia.
 

The court heard that Maureen on dates unknown but between December 1 last year and February 27 this year in Kabwe, allegedly permitted her elder brother to have sex with her.

And...? What's the problem? Notice, no explanation of harm to anyone is cited in the article.

The police at Kasanda Police Station last Friday confirmed that the two were reported to the police by their father who wanted the police to end their marriage.

What a rat. So it is OK for him to have sex with and impregnate at least two women, but not OK for other consenting adults to love each other? He should have read this.

A police source said according to their father, siblings allegedly got married last year and when their family attempted to end their affair they fled Kabwe.
 
The source said they resurfaced this year, and their family heard that they were renting a house in Makululu.

Renting a house! Oh, those scary people! Seriously, what a waste of law enforcement resources. Let them be together, and let them marry if they want. There is no good reason to deny them their rights.

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Posted in: Africa,breaking up homes,brother-sister,consanguineous,courts,family reaction,GSA,incest,lack of equality harms,prosecution,siblings

Newspaper Editorial Calls For Hate

A newspaper in Zambia is calling for more hate in response to recent shocking discoveries that people are loving each other even though they are siblings. Here is the editorial at daily-mail.co.zm...

THE continued reports of incestuous marriages in Central Province are worrying and raise many social and psychological questions.

What is there to worry about?

We urge relevant Government organs and non-governmental organisations to carry out a research to establish if this could be widespread and unravel the factors that could be driving people in this particular province into such marriages.

Yes, it is common. What is driving them to it is usually the same thing that drives any lovers.

This kind of behaviour should not be allowed to take root because it could have devastating social and biological consequences.

Such as...? Such as...? They got nuthin'.

Human beings are not animals that are ruled by instinct. We are ruled by reason.

Some of us are ruled by reason. Others want to interfere in the marriages of strangers.

Surely, how could a brother and sister have the courage to engage in a sexual relationship and even have children between them?

I can show you video.

This does not happen even in the most liberal and morally depraved western societies.

This happens everywhere and always has.

Incest is a criminal offence in Zambia.

Not for any good reason. 

It is disturbing to imagine the stigma the innocent children that could be born out of such a perverted marriage would have to endure.

Uh, then stop stigmatizing them.

What a pile of crap that editorial is. I hope the person who wrote it doesn't actually get paid for that drivel.

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Posted in: Africa,breaking up homes,brother-sister,children,consanguineous,family reaction,incest,lack of equality harms,law,media,persecution,prejudice,siblings,stigma

Cousins Can't Love Each Other Because it Makes Gay Babies

Or so says someone by the name of  Ropafadzo Mapimhidze writing at newsday.co.zw about the cruel treatment (including criminal conviction) recently of a couple of consenting adults in Zimbabwe, prosecuted for loving each other while being first cousins. You know, like hundred of millions of other people throughout history and alive today and legally married.

This story has generated so much debate and I decided to do a bit of research on reasons why incest is taboo, and why incest occurs despite the prohibition. And what the consequences are.

Where this is taboo, it is because of superstition, ignorance, legislative inertia, and control. It happens anyway because consenting adults love each other more than they pay attention to following unjust laws.

Such children can be born with extra toes, three eyes, and they can also grow to become homosexual, they may also have a low IQ and a potential to mentally harm future offspring, says the website. It also notes that such children can become people who are not able to interact with others or express love.

First of all, they were not prosecuted for having children. They were prosecuted for having sex. There is a difference. Also, all the columnist described above happens with unrelated lovers, too. In fact, we do not prevent people with obvious, serious, genetic diseases and birth defects from dating, having sex, having children, or marrying. But there are hundreds of millions of children from first cousins who are healthy, attractive, bright, and very social. Finally, there's nothing wrong with being gay.

The New York Times recently reported that first cousins are somewhat more likely than unrelated parents to have a child with a serious birth defect, mental retardation or genetic disease, but their increased risk is nowhere near as large as most people think, the newspaper quoted research done by some scientists.

But who needs scientists when we can listen to bigotry instead?

At least the piece does mention Genetic Sexual Attraction. Then it goes on to...

“Traditionally, such matters were dealt with by chiefs who then would find the rightful people to raise products of incest. We have to go back to our roots and see how best these matters can be dealt with the Zimbabwean way because these children are innocent victims of incest,” Kandiero said.

You know what makes children the biggest victims? When strangers use the power of unjust laws to force their parents apart and break up their home and brand their parents as criminals.

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Posted in: Africa,breaking up homes,children,consanguineous,cousins,GSA,lack of equality harms,myths,persecution,prejudice,prosecution,stigma,Zimbabwe

Updates on Two Criminal Cases

A sentence has been issued in this absurd prosecution of two adults in Zimbabwe for loving each other and (gasp!) being cousins! Here's a report from radiovop.com...

Two members of the Feremenga family from Dzivarasekwa Extension in Harare, whose incestuous relationship resulted in two pregnancies, were yesterday convicted and ordered to perform 630 hours of community service at different institutions in the suburb.

Robson (21) and Ashley Feremenga (19), whose fathers are blood brothers, pleaded guilty to incest charges when they appeared before Harare regional magistrate Adonia Masawi and were slapped with a 36-month prison term each.

But Masawi later suspended 18 months of their sentence on condition of good behaviour and again suspended the remainder on condition each of them performs 630 hours of community service.

Got that? If you break up your family, you can stay out of prison. Of course, the bigots in the neighborhood are going to have a field day being sadistic towards you anyway, and we won't stop that. Because, you know, you shouldn't be allowed to love each other.

The court was nonetheless, left in stitches when the two relatives insisted they wanted to stay together as a couple despite the implications of their unlawful relationship.

The cruelty is appalling. First cousins have been marrying for all of human history. Everyone involved in prosecuting these two should look into their heart, if they one, and clear it of this hatred.

The other update is about a case out of Nevada in which there was a sentencing a while back. I don't think the media ever specified the relationship, but my guess would be uncle-niece. This update comes from elkodaily.com reported by Dylan Woolf Harris.

Hughes isn’t specifically appealing his conviction, but instead the district court’s decision to allow prosecutors to use evidence gathered during a search of Hughes’ home. Leading up to trial, the defense filed a motion to suppress on grounds that a search warrant request wasn’t supported by probable cause, but District Judge Nancy Porter held that the warrant was supported and the prosecutor’s evidence was permissible.

The investigation and eventual search of Hughes’ home began in late 2008 after Kimberly Harphant, an acquaintance of Hughes, met with sheriff’s detective Kevin McKinney. She brought with her an unsigned, handwritten letter she said she took from Hughes’ home one day, as well as a prepared document of cut-and-pasted emails between Hughes and the victim.

Harphant had helped Hughes set up a business email account to which she remembered the password, and had lent him a phone. She was retrieving the phone when she found the letter, according to court documents.

The letter appeared to indicate romantic love between two people, but “in addition to a complete lack of attribution, it contains no references to a past or existing sexual relationship,” the brief states. Similarly, the emails’ authors were unverified and didn’t mention sex.

The appeal brief asserts McKinney made little attempt to corroborate or verify the items Harphant presented to him.

Interesting.

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Posted in: Africa,breaking up homes,consanguineous,cousins,incest,lack of equality harms,love,Nevada,prosecution,siblings,Zimbabwe

Zimbabwe Still Prosecuting Consenting Adults

From allafrica.com comes this report of the criminal prosecution of first cousins for the "crime" of loving each other.

Two cousins who were involved in an incestuous relationship which resulted in the birth of a girl and current pregnancy will perform 630 hours of community service. The two's fathers are brothers and traditionally are expected to treat each other as brother and sister. Ashley Feremenga (19) and her cousin Robson Feremenga (21) were living as husband and wife in Dzivaresekwa before neighbours alerted Ashley's father Jonasi.

I wonder what the love lives of those neighbors are like... if they have a love life in the first place. Must not be very fulfilling if they have time to rat people out for loving each other.

I'm sure their child is healthy. Otherwise, you can be sure this report would have noted any problems.

The duo was convicted after their own plea of guilt when they appeared before Harare magistrate Mr Aidonia Masawi who sentenced them to a 36 month-imprisonment term.

What a waste of the court.

Ashley's father Jonasi only came to know about their relationship after being advised by his neighbours.

He filed a police report leading to their arrest.

Rat. The lovers should keep his grandchildren away from him.

Fortunately, very few US states have ridiculous laws criminalizing consensual sex between first cousins. About half of US states will legally marry first cousins, and such marriages are common in many countries today, and have been very common throughout history. Prosecuting consenting adults for loving each other is outrageous.

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Posted in: Africa,breaking up homes,children,consanguineous,courts,cousins,family reaction,lack of equality harms,love,prejudice,prosecution,Zimbabwe

Samoa Still Imprisoning Consenting Adults

Jasmine Netzler reports at samoaobserver.ws...

A 59-year-old father and his 34-year-old daughter were jailed yesterday for incest.

The sentence was handed down by His Honour, Justice Vui Clarence Nelson, at the Supreme Court.

They are both consenting adults. Who is the victim of this "crime?"

The father was jailed for six years while his daughter was given 18 months.

Outrageous.

The daughter was banished following her relationship with her father being brought before their village council, Justice Vui said.

Her father on the other hand was ordered to provide 50 boxes of tinned fish. He was not banished.

Sounds like a shakedown.

During his sentencing remarks, Justice Vui said he was curious as to how the village reached its decision.

I want to know how he reached his decision.

The defendant was told that he knew his actions were wrong. This was portrayed when he refused the girl [daughter] during the first two times she had come to him.

He pretty much has to say it was wrong in court. Otherwise, they lock you up for even longer. Ridiculous.

Justice Vui told the man’s daughter that it was by her own word that she initiated “this elicit relationship”.

“Daughters as well as fathers must respect customs of this community,” he said.

I wonder what Justice Vui does in his private life?

Due to the ages, this appears to be a different case than ones in Samoa we have covered before, like this one.

There is no good reason to prosecute these lovers. Samoa, like so many other places including many US states, needs to let consenting adults  have their sexuality and relationships.

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Posted in: breaking up homes,consanguineous,father-daughter,incest,lack of equality harms,love,prosecution

Update on Zambia Attack on Family

Bertha Chipapuka, 35, with her 11-month-old baby and her ‘brotherly’ husband Mukuwa Nicholas Bulaya, 38, appeared before Serenje Magistrate’s Court for incest.

Authorities in Zambia continue with their attack on a family, which we wrote about here before. Chambo Ng'uni reports at daily-mail.co.zm...

SCORES of residents yesterday thronged the Serenje Magistrate’s Court to hear the case of incest involving Mukuwa Nicholas Bulaya and his younger sister Bertha Mwenda Chipapuka. 

Some residents arrived at Serenje Magistrate’s Court before 08:00 hours and scrambled for a few seats inside the courtroom when the doors were opened while others stood on the doorway and windows to hear the case.

So much interest. Are they voyeurs?

Mr Ngosa said the court decided to hear the cases against Bulaya and Chipapuka separately in the interest of justice since the two siblings are separately charged.

And the victim is....? Is...? No victim! No crime!

“I am asking for my sister to be released so that she can look for the things that the child needs and also bring me food and soap since no one from our family has visited us since we were arrested,” Bulaya said.

Mr Ngosa rejected the application and told Bulaya that he had no powers to release his sister (Chipapuka) because her case was being heard by another court.

Infuriating.

Let them go and apologize for ever interfering. Of course, even if that happened, their lives have been ruined by the outrageous bigotry and invasion of privacy to which they're being subjected. There is no good reason for this to be a matter for law enforcement to begin with.

Ten Myths About Sibling Consanguinamory

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Posted in: Africa,breaking up homes,brother-sister,children,consanguineous,family reaction,GSA,incest,lack of equality harms,love,prejudice,prosecution,siblings

Why Ghana Needs Full Marriage Equality

Ghana not only continues to deny people their fundamental right to marry, but adults continue to be arrested and prosecuted for having consensual sex with each other. Here's the latest example I found, this time a myjoyonline.com... 

Two siblings have been remanded in Police custody for alleged incestuous relationship which produced an 18-year-old boy.

53-year-old Issifu Abubakari and 36-year-old Ramatu were arrested on Wednesday December 11, 2013 and charged with the offence.

With that age difference, it seems possible to me that they are half-siblings and it is possible that Issifu wasn't even around while Ramatu was growing up.

They are alleged to have been in a relationship for about 20 years.

That would make Ramatu 16 years old at the beginning. The age of consent in Ghana is 16.

Kumasi-based Nhyira FM's Ohemeng Tawiah reported that the couple relocated from Dawu, near Agona, to Koforidua after family members and other relatives raised suspicions about their relationship.

So they were already dealing with hostile family and having to move simply because they loved each other. Family should support, not hate.

After 20 years, relatives of the couple discovered that they had been living as husband and wife with an 18-year-old son in his first year in Senior High School.

Even though the brother and sister were summoned to the chief of their village, and made to perform some rites to 'cleanse' them, they continued to have sexual relationship, Ohemeng reported.

Well. yes, they are married except in law, and they obviously love each other. What is the sense in trying to break up a family? If they've been together for 20 years without a problem, why try to stop them? There is no good reason.

They do not mention any problem with their child, so my guess is that that child is healthy, because I'm fairly certain they would have included any significant problems experienced by him in the report. To American eyes, reading that he is 18 and in his first year at Senior High School seems strange, but it is entirely possible he wasn't started in school until later than most American students start.

So what exactly was the problem with their relationship? Other people didn't like the idea. So what? How ridiculous it is to waste resources trying to pry apart adult lovers, especially ones that apparently haven't caused any trouble for anybody. I can guarantee you there are other siblings in Ghana living as spouses, some with children together, just as there are (and always have been) all over the world. The sooner we recognize all adults should have relationship rights, including full marriage equality, the better.

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Posted in: Africa,breaking up homes,brother-sister,children,consanguineous,family reaction,Ghana,GSA,incest,lack of equality harms,love,prejudice,prosecution,siblings

Why Ghana Needs Full Marriage Equality

Ghana not only continues to deny people their fundamental right to marry, but adults continue to be arrested and prosecuted for having consensual sex with each other. Here's the latest example I found, this time a myjoyonline.com... 

Two siblings have been remanded in Police custody for alleged incestuous relationship which produced an 18-year-old boy.

53-year-old Issifu Abubakari and 36-year-old Ramatu were arrested on Wednesday December 11, 2013 and charged with the offence.

With that age difference, it seems possible to me that they are half-siblings and it is possible that Issifu wasn't even around while Ramatu was growing up.

They are alleged to have been in a relationship for about 20 years.

That would make Ramatu 16 years old at the beginning. The age of consent in Ghana is 16.

Kumasi-based Nhyira FM's Ohemeng Tawiah reported that the couple relocated from Dawu, near Agona, to Koforidua after family members and other relatives raised suspicions about their relationship.

So they were already dealing with hostile family and having to move simply because they loved each other. Family should support, not hate.

After 20 years, relatives of the couple discovered that they had been living as husband and wife with an 18-year-old son in his first year in Senior High School.

Even though the brother and sister were summoned to the chief of their village, and made to perform some rites to 'cleanse' them, they continued to have sexual relationship, Ohemeng reported.

Well. yes, they are married except in law, and they obviously love each other. What is the sense in trying to break up a family? If they've been together for 20 years without a problem, why try to stop them? There is no good reason.

They do not mention any problem with their child, so my guess is that that child is healthy, because I'm fairly certain they would have included any significant problems experienced by him in the report. To American eyes, reading that he is 18 and in his first year at Senior High School seems strange, but it is entirely possible he wasn't started in school until later than most American students start.

So what exactly was the problem with their relationship? Other people didn't like the idea. So what? How ridiculous it is to waste resources trying to pry apart adult lovers, especially ones that apparently haven't caused any trouble for anybody. I can guarantee you there are other siblings in Ghana living as spouses, some with children together, just as there are (and always have been) all over the world. The sooner we recognize all adults should have relationship rights, including full marriage equality, the better.

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Posted in: Africa,breaking up homes,brother-sister,children,consanguineous,family reaction,Ghana,GSA,incest,lack of equality harms,love,prejudice,prosecution,siblings

Is Montana Prosecuting Consenting Adults?

Peter Christian reports at newstalkkgvo.com about what appears to be a prosecution of consensual sex by the state of Montana...

An Alaska man, Russell Whitfield Smith, 48, was charged in Missoula Justice Court on Wednesday, December 11, with committing incest with his adult daughter, 19, in her Missoula home.

According to court documents, law enforcement received a call from Child Protective Services on December 10  that a father was having consensual sex with his biological daughter.

Consensual sex. If it is consensual, with a 19-year-old, it shouldn't be a crime.

Russell W. Smith had moved to Missoula from Alaska and was living with his daughter and they were having sex.

This makes me wonder if this is a case of Genetic Sexual Attraction. If she had not previously been living with him, it could very well be.

The victim’s roommate reported the incidents to authorities, confirming that they were having sex and planned to marry.

So again, this sounds like a consensual relationship and the roommate, possibly jealous or just bigoted, ratted them out. This is why I say consanguineous lovers should protect themselves.

Deputy County Attorney Jennifer Clark said that the victim was mentally disabled, and that her father was taking advantage of her.

So is Clark alleging that the 19-year-old is unable to consent to sex with anyone? If she is legally able to consent to group sex with 5 cage fighters she just met, why not Smith?

Incest is a felony, punishable by from two to four years or more than 100 years or life in the Montana State Prison, and a $50,000 fine.

It is ridiculous that anyone would be criminally prosecuted for consensual sex, let alone be sent to prison for 100 years! Criminal prosecution should be reserved for assault/rape, where I can definitely understand a 100-year prison sentence.

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Posted in: breaking up homes,consanguineous,father-daughter,GSA,incest,lack of equality harms,Montana,prosecution

Is Montana Prosecuting Consenting Adults?

Peter Christian reports at newstalkkgvo.com about what appears to be a prosecution of consensual sex by the state of Montana...

An Alaska man, Russell Whitfield Smith, 48, was charged in Missoula Justice Court on Wednesday, December 11, with committing incest with his adult daughter, 19, in her Missoula home.

According to court documents, law enforcement received a call from Child Protective Services on December 10  that a father was having consensual sex with his biological daughter.

Consensual sex. If it is consensual, with a 19-year-old, it shouldn't be a crime.

Russell W. Smith had moved to Missoula from Alaska and was living with his daughter and they were having sex.

This makes me wonder if this is a case of Genetic Sexual Attraction. If she had not previously been living with him, it could very well be.

The victim’s roommate reported the incidents to authorities, confirming that they were having sex and planned to marry.

So again, this sounds like a consensual relationship and the roommate, possibly jealous or just bigoted, ratted them out. This is why I say consanguineous lovers should protect themselves.

Deputy County Attorney Jennifer Clark said that the victim was mentally disabled, and that her father was taking advantage of her.

So is Clark alleging that the 19-year-old is unable to consent to sex with anyone? If she is legally able to consent to group sex with 5 cage fighters she just met, why not Smith?

Incest is a felony, punishable by from two to four years or more than 100 years or life in the Montana State Prison, and a $50,000 fine.

It is ridiculous that anyone would be criminally prosecuted for consensual sex, let alone be sent to prison for 100 years! Criminal prosecution should be reserved for assault/rape, where I can definitely understand a 100-year prison sentence.

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Posted in: breaking up homes,consanguineous,father-daughter,GSA,incest,lack of equality harms,Montana,prosecution

Update on Carlisle Crown Court Prosecution of Consenting Adults

We now have an update on a case we noticed a few months back.Yes, adults in England continue to be prosecuted for consensual sex, taking resources away from preventing actual crimes, including child abuse. Here's the report from newsandstar.co.uk...

Frank Humphreys and Eleanor Jackson

Both Frank Humphreys, 50, and Eleanor Jackson, 22, pleaded not guilty at court to a charge of having “sex with an adult relative”.

That shouldn't be a crime in the first place.

They spoke to confirm their names and to deny the charges during a brief hearing before the city’s most senior judge, Paul Batty QC.

The charges state they are accused of having sex between December 2011 and February 2012.

And who exactly is the victim? Oh, that's right. There is no victim!

The case was adjourned for a trial early next year and both were released on bail.

We will be watching, Your Honor. Please clear them of all charges and point out the absurdity of prosecuting consenting adults for having sex.

Modern countries must keep evolving until an adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race, or religion, is freed to share love, sex, residence, and marriage (and any of those without the others) without fear of prosecution, bullying, or discrimination.

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Posted in: breaking up homes,consanguineous,courts,father-daughter,GSA,incest,lack of equality harms,law,prejudice,prosecution,UK

Update on Carlisle Crown Court Prosecution of Consenting Adults

We now have an update on a case we noticed a few months back.Yes, adults in England continue to be prosecuted for consensual sex, taking resources away from preventing actual crimes, including child abuse. Here's the report from newsandstar.co.uk...

Frank Humphreys and Eleanor Jackson

Both Frank Humphreys, 50, and Eleanor Jackson, 22, pleaded not guilty at court to a charge of having “sex with an adult relative”.

That shouldn't be a crime in the first place.

They spoke to confirm their names and to deny the charges during a brief hearing before the city’s most senior judge, Paul Batty QC.

The charges state they are accused of having sex between December 2011 and February 2012.

And who exactly is the victim? Oh, that's right. There is no victim!

The case was adjourned for a trial early next year and both were released on bail.

We will be watching, Your Honor. Please clear them of all charges and point out the absurdity of prosecuting consenting adults for having sex.

Modern countries must keep evolving until an adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race, or religion, is freed to share love, sex, residence, and marriage (and any of those without the others) without fear of prosecution, bullying, or discrimination.

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Posted in: breaking up homes,consanguineous,courts,father-daughter,GSA,incest,lack of equality harms,law,prejudice,prosecution,UK

Marriage of GSA Couple Annulled

Meredith Hoster reports at highlightpress.com that a marriage has been annulled and there is a new call for changes in adoption regulations in the UK.

In an incredibly rare twist of fate, a married couple in the UK have had their marriage annulled after discovering that they were in fact twins separated at birth. The pair apparently had no idea they were related, though felt an “inevitable attraction” that brought them together.

That's called Genetic Sexual Attraction, and even when people are aware of their genetic relation and GSA, it can still happen.

According to a peer addressing the House of Lords, the case highlights the importance of ensuring all adopted children have access to the details of their biological parents.

The twins at the center of the case have chosen to keep their identities hidden.

There's still much prejudice.

Speaking with the BBC in the UK, the peer spoke of the dangers associated with hiding a person’s identity over the long term. 

“If you start trying to conceal someone’s identity, sooner or later the truth will out,” the peer told the BBC.

“And if you don’t know you are biologically related to someone, you may become attracted to them and tragedies like this may occur.”

Like I said, some people experience GSA even if they know. You can read about some here.

No additional details have been made public about the couple’s future intent, though to continue the relationship even at such a stage would be in violation of UK law.

There are so many questions left unanswered by this report.

Did they have children, and how are those children? Most children born into such situations are healthy, despite myths. My guess is that if there had been children, that would have been mentioned.

Did this couple WANT their marriage annulled? I understand that the law makes it happen, stupidly, regardless of what they want. So for all we know they are still together and did not want their marriage annulled.

It is ridiculous to criminalize consensual relationships between adults, and to deny them the freedom to marry.

Imagine finding someone who makes you so happy and you marry, only to have it all taken away from you. And for what? There's no good reason. An adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race, or religion, should be free to share love, sex, residence, and marriage with ANY and ALL consenting adults, without fear of prosecution, bullying, or discrimination.

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Posted in: breaking up homes,brother-sister,children,consanguineous,GSA,incest,lack of equality harms,law,prejudice,reunion,siblings,stigma,UK

Marriage of GSA Couple Annulled

Meredith Hoster reports at highlightpress.com that a marriage has been annulled and there is a new call for changes in adoption regulations in the UK.

In an incredibly rare twist of fate, a married couple in the UK have had their marriage annulled after discovering that they were in fact twins separated at birth. The pair apparently had no idea they were related, though felt an “inevitable attraction” that brought them together.

That's called Genetic Sexual Attraction, and even when people are aware of their genetic relation and GSA, it can still happen.

According to a peer addressing the House of Lords, the case highlights the importance of ensuring all adopted children have access to the details of their biological parents.

The twins at the center of the case have chosen to keep their identities hidden.

There's still much prejudice.

Speaking with the BBC in the UK, the peer spoke of the dangers associated with hiding a person’s identity over the long term. 

“If you start trying to conceal someone’s identity, sooner or later the truth will out,” the peer told the BBC.

“And if you don’t know you are biologically related to someone, you may become attracted to them and tragedies like this may occur.”

Like I said, some people experience GSA even if they know. You can read about some here.

No additional details have been made public about the couple’s future intent, though to continue the relationship even at such a stage would be in violation of UK law.

There are so many questions left unanswered by this report.

Did they have children, and how are those children? Most children born into such situations are healthy, despite myths. My guess is that if there had been children, that would have been mentioned.

Did this couple WANT their marriage annulled? I understand that the law makes it happen, stupidly, regardless of what they want. So for all we know they are still together and did not want their marriage annulled.

It is ridiculous to criminalize consensual relationships between adults, and to deny them the freedom to marry.

Imagine finding someone who makes you so happy and you marry, only to have it all taken away from you. And for what? There's no good reason. An adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race, or religion, should be free to share love, sex, residence, and marriage with ANY and ALL consenting adults, without fear of prosecution, bullying, or discrimination.

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Posted in: breaking up homes,brother-sister,children,consanguineous,GSA,incest,lack of equality harms,law,prejudice,reunion,siblings,stigma,UK

Will Carlisle Crown Court Punish Adults For Consensual Sex?

Many people are rightly shocked to learn that consensual sex between adults can still considered a criminal act in many supposedly modern places, and that people continue to be prosecuted for such a "crime." From newsandstar.co.uk comes this short report about two consenting adults being prosecuted in England for having consensual sex with each other.

A father and daughter are to go on trial accused of incest.

This shouldn't be a crime, unless we are talking about abusing minors.

Fifty-year-old Frank Christopher Humphreys and his 22-year-old daughter Eleanor Jackson deny the charge and will go on trial later in the year at Carlisle Crown Court.
The two, from Cleator Moor, are accused of consensual sex between December 2011 and February 2012.

Why is this a criminal matter?

Humphreys is accused of having sex with his daughter “knowing that she was related to you in that way.” Jackson faces a similar charge.

So who is the victim???

Both denied the offence when they appeared before magistrates in Workington.
The case was sent to Carlisle Crown Court to be next heard on September 30.

Carlisle is in Cumbria, England.

I wonder how this became a criminal matter? Did someone rat them out? I also notice she had a different last name. Is that a married name, or did she grow up apart from him, likely making this a matter of Genetic Sexual Attraction?

No matter who doesn't like the idea, these two should be free to love each other any way they want. Instead of being prosecuted, they should be offered marriage. What a waste of government resources this prosecution is. Outrageous.

Read more »

Posted in: breaking up homes,consanguineous,courts,father-daughter,GSA,incest,lack of equality harms,law,prejudice,prosecution,UK

Will Carlisle Crown Court Punish Adults For Consensual Sex?

Many people are rightly shocked to learn that consensual sex between adults can still considered a criminal act in many supposedly modern places, and that people continue to be prosecuted for such a "crime." From newsandstar.co.uk comes this short report about two consenting adults being prosecuted in England for having consensual sex with each other.

A father and daughter are to go on trial accused of incest.

This shouldn't be a crime, unless we are talking about abusing minors.

Fifty-year-old Frank Christopher Humphreys and his 22-year-old daughter Eleanor Jackson deny the charge and will go on trial later in the year at Carlisle Crown Court.
The two, from Cleator Moor, are accused of consensual sex between December 2011 and February 2012.

Why is this a criminal matter?

Humphreys is accused of having sex with his daughter “knowing that she was related to you in that way.” Jackson faces a similar charge.

So who is the victim???

Both denied the offence when they appeared before magistrates in Workington.
The case was sent to Carlisle Crown Court to be next heard on September 30.

Carlisle is in Cumbria, England.

I wonder how this became a criminal matter? Did someone rat them out? I also notice she had a different last name. Is that a married name, or did she grow up apart from him, likely making this a matter of Genetic Sexual Attraction?

No matter who doesn't like the idea, these two should be free to love each other any way they want. Instead of being prosecuted, they should be offered marriage. What a waste of government resources this prosecution is. Outrageous.

Read more »

Posted in: breaking up homes,consanguineous,courts,father-daughter,GSA,incest,lack of equality harms,law,prejudice,prosecution,UK

Asking a Good Question

Discussions like the one below pop up everywhere. This one at collegenet.com was started by claskate who asked, "Is incest always bad?"

Recently a father and daughter were charged with two counts of third degree felony incest, both facing up to 5 years in prison. The father is 52 years old and the daughter is 24 years old. They both knew they were biologically related and it was a consensual relationship. The daughter was adopted as a child and then found her father when she was 21. They got to know each other and a year after they met, they started having sexual relations.

She is referring to this case in Utah.

If the incest is consensual should they still be tried?

No, they shouldn't. They should be free to be together and to marry, if that is what they want.

Would you condone this relationship if they truly loved each other even though they are related?

Of course I would.

Would you still consider it wrong if they didn't know they were blood related?

It isn't wrong even when people do know they are blood related.

shinny437 was first to respond.

Incest should never be allowed.

Why not? But instead of explaining right away, she wavers...

Or maybe it could be if procreation isn't allowed. Maybe sterilze both individuals?

Ah yes, eugenics. What about reproductive rights?

The birth defects that can come from that are pretty alarming.

The birth defects that can come from unrelated parents are pretty alarming, too. But most children born to close relatives are healthy.

I also think the social stigma associated with that would never subside enough for it to be allowed.

"I'm against it because people are against it." Got it. You know, the social stigma about interracial relationships will never subside, and no child of such a relationship will ever amount to anything, right.

It seems so wrong for someone to bring a child into this world, just to become intimate with them later on.

Wouldn't want relatives to be "intimate" now would we? He didn't farm and groom her. He may not have even known she existed until they got in contact when she was an adult. He did not raise her.

avillalp wrote some great stuff...

I didn't know incest was a crime. I knew it was frowned upon by a majority of society, but I didn't know it was a legitimate crime. That's kind of nuts.

It's cruel and destructive.

I would condone the relationship because I don't care what other people do in the comfort of their own home. Two people engaging in a relationship with their family members doesn't force me to do the same. People can do what they want.

I don't think knowing you're in a relationship with a family member makes incest worse. At its core, the relationship is based on love and caring for the other person. If you're oblivious to the incest, it shouldn't affect your relationship. Why do couples have to cater to the desires of other people? They should only care about each other's opinion.

Thank you! Sabstar28 wrote...

This child is more like to be born with defects, mental disabilities, a great amount of allergies. I am getting this information from experience. From underpriviledged countries, this has been true for all children born from an incest relationship.

Not true! Most are healthy.

I have heard many stories about these situations yet I have no scientific evidence to prove my point.

There's a reason for that. TenkenNoKaiten...

There's nothing actually wrong with it, some cultures indulge, people have been doing it for millennia, but it has been beaten into us since birth that such things are wrong, unholy, dirty, whatever you want to call it. Fathers and daughters or siblings have been getting hitched and popping out kids forever. Look at the history of certain royal families from almost any culture and you'll find tons of incest.

AshtangaMama was familiar with the term Genetic Sexual Attraction, which is a good sign...

And like many have mentioned before me... what about children? We surely all know or know of at least one child that struggles because of the parents whether they are gay or interracial or an unpopular religion... Can you imagine being the child of two blood relatives?

Many people are.

Life would be hard enough with that torment but statistics show the child would also be plagued with birth defects. 

Again, not true. If people could see just how many people they've encountered who have close genetic relatives for parents, they'd be shocked at how many there are and how most of them are doing well, thankyouverymuch.

I honestly feel that bringing a child into the world from an incestuous relationship would be cruel.

Stigmatizing love, especially taking it out on the children of the lovers, is cruel.

shankay...

The term "consensual incest" is somewhat of an oxymoron. Incest by its very definition is detrimental to the human race so the notion that it would ever be consensual seems odd in itself.

Wha...? Huh? OK, assuming sex between adults is "detrimental to the human race" (it isn't), people do consent to do things that are detrimental to the human race. But we're talking sex and a relationship. Consensual. Not an oxymoron. Not detrimental to the human race.

Without ruining my morning breakfast, if I found out I was dating my biological father I would be pretty turned off to say the least.

Some people have thought that, but when they've experienced GSA they have been surprised.

Melinder...

Like others have said from a biological stand point I have to say that it is bad and shouldn't happen. The risk for genetic defects is very high and the population relies on genetic variation for long term survival, and that is why there are some many genetic variation possibilities built into sexual reproduction.

This confuses the situation, as if Melinder is saying if it weren't for anti-consanguinamory laws, she (and everyone else) would only be having children with close relatives. Is there something she wants to tell us? The question isn't, "Should everyone be forced to only reproduce with their close relatives?" It is "Should consenting (meaning if they want) adults be free to have sex without criminal prosecution?" Remove anti-consanguinamory laws, and the vast majority of children will still be born to people who aren't close relatives. 

teruhmaree...

Like avillalp, I had no idea that incest was even a crime. Sure, I see the danger in it, but I don't think it should be illegal if the two people consent to the relationship.

I don't think they should be tried and I don't think anyone should be able to choose who you're allowed to be in a relationship with besides you.

I think about it this way, and this kind of relates to a forum that greycloudbear posted yesterday... if someone with HIV/Aids wanted to have a child, it would be wrong to tell them that they can't. There is a chance that the child will have HIV/Aids, but there is also a chance that they will be perfectly fine. Doing a quick search, aids.gov says that an untreated expecting mother has a "25% chance of passing the virus to her baby."

With incest (father-daughter), there isn't an exact percentage because there are so many other factors that play into it. Even if it is higher than 25%, they should be able to choose and love on their own. 

Thank you! Pheebster also brought some education to the conversation...

The kids argument is fallacious because not ALL kids born of incest will be born of defects. It only increases the likelihood. There are lots of things that can increase a child's risk of being born with defects. Should we ban women over 40, women who smoke, women undergoing cancer treatments, women taking certain medications, women with genetic diseases, etc. from having children? No, of course not. The likelihood of a child being born with defects is not a determinant for who is allowed to have children and with whom. Do I think it's fair for people with known high-risk backgrounds to have kids who might be born with defects? No, not really, but until we get into the business of regulating who gets to have kids, it's not really my place to say.

Thank you!

All that said, let's not forget that the Russian monarchy died out in large part due to their history of incest - nearly every male in the family was born with hemophilia because they would often marry brothers and sisters to preserve family purity.

Uh, I think the Russian monarchy died out because of lead poisoning.

Alexandrea...

I know it sounds harsh, mean spirited, rude, crass, tactless, but how many of you want the courts deciding who you sleep with? I know I don't want the government, judge, jury. or prosecutors in my bedroom or interfering with my body.

Thank you!

claskate then returned to the thread she started..,

Like most of you also, I agree that it should not be illegal; why is the government always trying to get in our beds?! In Virginia, we have a law that states one may not have sex other than that of in the missionary position and one cannot have sex with the lights on. I don't even understand how that became a law, just let us live our sex lives in peace!

Please.

sarsarsarsar...

As someone else had previously mentioned, making any form of relationship incest/gay/polygamous illegal is outrageous!

But this person does have reservations...

My last opinion on this topic, as much I don't support incest I do not wish to outlaw it and say that no one else may engage, is that incestual relationships with minimize people's families. The way I see it is that you are brought into this world by two people who must unconditionally love you no matter what, some are lucky to have a number of siblings to do the same. On top of that you have both of your parents' parents and your parents' siblings and their kids to also love you unconditionally. Even with the smallest possible family that leaves you with 6 people who will care for you no matter what. To marry someone outside of your family gives you atleast 6 more people to love you unconditionally.

There is no guarantee that parents will love their own children and treat them right. Many don't. Some people don't have any siblings, and single children do quite well, on average. Some people are born after one, some or all of their genetic grandparents have died, or are not raised near their grandparents. Also, some people are raised by one parent, whether due to divorce or break up, death, casual sex, incarceration, adoption or foster care, or use of donated sperm/eggs/embryo.

There may good reasons why any two people should not be lovers or not marry or not have children, but it should be up to them to make those decisions. Prejudice and discrimination, including criminalization or the denial of equal access to marriage, should not be a factor. Once again in this discussion, the opposition to relationship rights was almost entirely based on Discredited Arguments #1 and 18.

There is still no good reason why an adult should be denied the right to marry (or have sex with) any and all consenting adults.

Read more »

Posted in: allies,breaking up homes,consanguineous,father-daughter,GSA,incest,prejudice,prosecution,reunion,stigma,Utah

Asking a Good Question

Discussions like the one below pop up everywhere. This one at collegenet.com was started by claskate who asked, "Is incest always bad?"

Recently a father and daughter were charged with two counts of third degree felony incest, both facing up to 5 years in prison. The father is 52 years old and the daughter is 24 years old. They both knew they were biologically related and it was a consensual relationship. The daughter was adopted as a child and then found her father when she was 21. They got to know each other and a year after they met, they started having sexual relations.

She is referring to this case in Utah.

If the incest is consensual should they still be tried?

No, they shouldn't. They should be free to be together and to marry, if that is what they want.

Would you condone this relationship if they truly loved each other even though they are related?

Of course I would.

Would you still consider it wrong if they didn't know they were blood related?

It isn't wrong even when people do know they are blood related.

shinny437 was first to respond.

Incest should never be allowed.

Why not? But instead of explaining right away, she wavers...

Or maybe it could be if procreation isn't allowed. Maybe sterilze both individuals?

Ah yes, eugenics. What about reproductive rights?

The birth defects that can come from that are pretty alarming.

The birth defects that can come from unrelated parents are pretty alarming, too. But most children born to close relatives are healthy.

I also think the social stigma associated with that would never subside enough for it to be allowed.

"I'm against it because people are against it." Got it. You know, the social stigma about interracial relationships will never subside, and no child of such a relationship will ever amount to anything, right.

It seems so wrong for someone to bring a child into this world, just to become intimate with them later on.

Wouldn't want relatives to be "intimate" now would we? He didn't farm and groom her. He may not have even known she existed until they got in contact when she was an adult. He did not raise her.

avillalp wrote some great stuff...

I didn't know incest was a crime. I knew it was frowned upon by a majority of society, but I didn't know it was a legitimate crime. That's kind of nuts.

It's cruel and destructive.

I would condone the relationship because I don't care what other people do in the comfort of their own home. Two people engaging in a relationship with their family members doesn't force me to do the same. People can do what they want.

I don't think knowing you're in a relationship with a family member makes incest worse. At its core, the relationship is based on love and caring for the other person. If you're oblivious to the incest, it shouldn't affect your relationship. Why do couples have to cater to the desires of other people? They should only care about each other's opinion.

Thank you! Sabstar28 wrote...

This child is more like to be born with defects, mental disabilities, a great amount of allergies. I am getting this information from experience. From underpriviledged countries, this has been true for all children born from an incest relationship.

Not true! Most are healthy.

I have heard many stories about these situations yet I have no scientific evidence to prove my point.

There's a reason for that. TenkenNoKaiten...

There's nothing actually wrong with it, some cultures indulge, people have been doing it for millennia, but it has been beaten into us since birth that such things are wrong, unholy, dirty, whatever you want to call it. Fathers and daughters or siblings have been getting hitched and popping out kids forever. Look at the history of certain royal families from almost any culture and you'll find tons of incest.

AshtangaMama was familiar with the term Genetic Sexual Attraction, which is a good sign...

And like many have mentioned before me... what about children? We surely all know or know of at least one child that struggles because of the parents whether they are gay or interracial or an unpopular religion... Can you imagine being the child of two blood relatives?

Many people are.

Life would be hard enough with that torment but statistics show the child would also be plagued with birth defects. 

Again, not true. If people could see just how many people they've encountered who have close genetic relatives for parents, they'd be shocked at how many there are and how most of them are doing well, thankyouverymuch.

I honestly feel that bringing a child into the world from an incestuous relationship would be cruel.

Stigmatizing love, especially taking it out on the children of the lovers, is cruel.

shankay...

The term "consensual incest" is somewhat of an oxymoron. Incest by its very definition is detrimental to the human race so the notion that it would ever be consensual seems odd in itself.

Wha...? Huh? OK, assuming sex between adults is "detrimental to the human race" (it isn't), people do consent to do things that are detrimental to the human race. But we're talking sex and a relationship. Consensual. Not an oxymoron. Not detrimental to the human race.

Without ruining my morning breakfast, if I found out I was dating my biological father I would be pretty turned off to say the least.

Some people have thought that, but when they've experienced GSA they have been surprised.

Melinder...

Like others have said from a biological stand point I have to say that it is bad and shouldn't happen. The risk for genetic defects is very high and the population relies on genetic variation for long term survival, and that is why there are some many genetic variation possibilities built into sexual reproduction.

This confuses the situation, as if Melinder is saying if it weren't for anti-consanguinamory laws, she (and everyone else) would only be having children with close relatives. Is there something she wants to tell us? The question isn't, "Should everyone be forced to only reproduce with their close relatives?" It is "Should consenting (meaning if they want) adults be free to have sex without criminal prosecution?" Remove anti-consanguinamory laws, and the vast majority of children will still be born to people who aren't close relatives. 

teruhmaree...

Like avillalp, I had no idea that incest was even a crime. Sure, I see the danger in it, but I don't think it should be illegal if the two people consent to the relationship.

I don't think they should be tried and I don't think anyone should be able to choose who you're allowed to be in a relationship with besides you.

I think about it this way, and this kind of relates to a forum that greycloudbear posted yesterday... if someone with HIV/Aids wanted to have a child, it would be wrong to tell them that they can't. There is a chance that the child will have HIV/Aids, but there is also a chance that they will be perfectly fine. Doing a quick search, aids.gov says that an untreated expecting mother has a "25% chance of passing the virus to her baby."

With incest (father-daughter), there isn't an exact percentage because there are so many other factors that play into it. Even if it is higher than 25%, they should be able to choose and love on their own. 

Thank you! Pheebster also brought some education to the conversation...

The kids argument is fallacious because not ALL kids born of incest will be born of defects. It only increases the likelihood. There are lots of things that can increase a child's risk of being born with defects. Should we ban women over 40, women who smoke, women undergoing cancer treatments, women taking certain medications, women with genetic diseases, etc. from having children? No, of course not. The likelihood of a child being born with defects is not a determinant for who is allowed to have children and with whom. Do I think it's fair for people with known high-risk backgrounds to have kids who might be born with defects? No, not really, but until we get into the business of regulating who gets to have kids, it's not really my place to say.

Thank you!

All that said, let's not forget that the Russian monarchy died out in large part due to their history of incest - nearly every male in the family was born with hemophilia because they would often marry brothers and sisters to preserve family purity.

Uh, I think the Russian monarchy died out because of lead poisoning.

Alexandrea...

I know it sounds harsh, mean spirited, rude, crass, tactless, but how many of you want the courts deciding who you sleep with? I know I don't want the government, judge, jury. or prosecutors in my bedroom or interfering with my body.

Thank you!

claskate then returned to the thread she started..,

Like most of you also, I agree that it should not be illegal; why is the government always trying to get in our beds?! In Virginia, we have a law that states one may not have sex other than that of in the missionary position and one cannot have sex with the lights on. I don't even understand how that became a law, just let us live our sex lives in peace!

Please.

sarsarsarsar...

As someone else had previously mentioned, making any form of relationship incest/gay/polygamous illegal is outrageous!

But this person does have reservations...

My last opinion on this topic, as much I don't support incest I do not wish to outlaw it and say that no one else may engage, is that incestual relationships with minimize people's families. The way I see it is that you are brought into this world by two people who must unconditionally love you no matter what, some are lucky to have a number of siblings to do the same. On top of that you have both of your parents' parents and your parents' siblings and their kids to also love you unconditionally. Even with the smallest possible family that leaves you with 6 people who will care for you no matter what. To marry someone outside of your family gives you atleast 6 more people to love you unconditionally.

There is no guarantee that parents will love their own children and treat them right. Many don't. Some people don't have any siblings, and single children do quite well, on average. Some people are born after one, some or all of their genetic grandparents have died, or are not raised near their grandparents. Also, some people are raised by one parent, whether due to divorce or break up, death, casual sex, incarceration, adoption or foster care, or use of donated sperm/eggs/embryo.

There may good reasons why any two people should not be lovers or not marry or not have children, but it should be up to them to make those decisions. Prejudice and discrimination, including criminalization or the denial of equal access to marriage, should not be a factor. Once again in this discussion, the opposition to relationship rights was almost entirely based on Discredited Arguments #1 and 18.

There is still no good reason why an adult should be denied the right to marry (or have sex with) any and all consenting adults.

Read more »

Posted in: allies,breaking up homes,consanguineous,father-daughter,GSA,incest,prejudice,prosecution,reunion,stigma,Utah

So Many Questions About Georgia Case Against Father

There's a lot of helpful information missing from this article at moultrieobserver.com by Alan Mauldin, though Mr. Mauldin is probably limited by what law enforcement will release.

A man thought to have fathered up to eight children with his daughter faces incest charges in Colquitt County and could face charges in other jurisdictions in Alabama and Georgia.

Notice the article says "incest charges," not assault, rape, etc. So far, the article doesn't mention her age, which matters.

Ruben Fernando-Lopez, 41, 111 Oak St., was charged here on June 19 with three counts of incest.

The daughter has told authorities that a pair of twins -- her third pregnancy -- miscarried about three months into the pregnancy.

The youngest child, who was born premature on June 12, died Saturday at  Colquitt County Sheriff’s Office Inv. Mike Murfin said Monday. The mother was believed to have been 17 when she had her first child.

Three counts of "incest." Again, not assault. The age of consent in Alabama and Georgia is 16. That means this young woman was free to have group sex with complete strangers ranging in age from 16 to 35 to 65, including weightlifters and cage fighters. She was free to have sex with an unrelated boarder living in her home from the time she was an infant, or the President. But she can't legally consent (if we are talking about something consensual) to have sex with Ruben. Why not?

The Georgia Division of Family and Children Services asked the sheriff’s office to investigate the family after noting that the woman’s children had a history of developmental disabilities.

“They reported apparent health problems,” sheriff’s Inv. Shawn Bostick said. “In identifying the father, it was determined the father (of the woman) was the childrens’ father.”

The article does not say if it was determined that the disabilities were the result of genetic problems. Most children born to consanguineous parents are healthy. It is possible, though, that these two have a problem with their gene combinations. Or, perhaps, if either of them had children with others, those children would have problems, too.

The surviving five children are with the mother.

“There’s no reports of them being mistreated or neglected,” Murfin said.

Well that's good. It is legal for people with obvious, serious, genetic diseases to have sex, have children together, and marry. So why is he being prosecuted? If he assaulted her, charge him appropriately. If this was consensual, prosecution is ridiculous.

Notice no mention is made of her mother or any siblings of hers. That's one of the questions I have: was she raised by her father, or could this be a matter of Genetic Sexual Attraction, where she grew up with her mother, apart from him, and siblings and reunited with him later?

Another question: What has she said to authorities about this? Is there any evidence to suggest he so much as touched her before she reached the age of consent, or that there was coercion or grooming? If not, prosecution is not justice.

If this was a matter of abuse, then I'm all for locking this guy up in a bad place and throwing away the key. But if this was a consensual spousal-style relationship, then it is a travesty that he would be prosecuted and that he has been taking away from the family.

Read more »

Posted in: Alabama,breaking up homes,children,consanguineous,father-daughter,Georgia,GSA,incest,pregnancy,prosecution