Defending Stephanie Seymour

(Time to bump this entry up to congratulate Stephanie Seymour on being the the new face of Estée Lauder. ALSO see update at the end.)

Here’s an example of someone trashing the beautiful Stephanie Seymour for daring to be affectionate with her son in public. I’ll edit the quotes slightly to remove language that some people still get upset about.

One of the things that has me saying “Are you f------ stupid?” are the photos of Stephanie Seymour and her son.

She goes on…

The photos do look like she’s making out with her son. A little creepy…yes!

Why is that creepy?

Is it normal for a son to cop a feel of the boobies?

For some people, yes. Jealous?

Turns out her son is gay. Which apparently makes it ok to make out with your hot Mom on a beach.

It’s okay for any adult to be affectionate with any consenting adult on a beach. It should certainly be legal.

My question is, “Are you f------ stupid?”

Maybe they were simply having some minimal affection. Or maybe it is a sign of more. What’s the problem? What’s stupid is trashing others for sharing love and affection.

I have to admit, I’m vey curious to hear your thoughts on the pics.

My thought is that it is too bad that everyone can’t be on such good terms with their parent or child.

February 12, 2014 UPDATE...

This photo shoot has fingers wagging now.

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Posted in: boundaries,coming out,consanguineous,incest,love,media,mother-son,prejudice,stigma

Search Phrases of the Day

Two recent search phrases people used to find this blog caught my attention.

The first one was “consensual adult incest support group.”

I am not aware of an in-person support group for people who are in consanguinamorous relationships, although I do remember someone planning one, and couples I helped to introduce to each other have met up in person.

I am aware of few online forums. The one I most strongly recommend is the free (and porn-free) Kindred Spirits forum. If you want to join that forum, be sure to read and immediately follow all of the rules, or you won’t last long there.

The second search phrase was “I saw my grandmother have incest with my uncle.”

I’m going to assume from the choice of words that we’re talking about consensual sex between adults. After all, it would be hard to have a child old enough to do that search if one was not an adult. It wouldn’t be incest if this was a grandmother from one parent having sex with another parent, so this was probably about a woman have sex with her own adult son. Even then, if he was adopted or a stepson, it isn’t incest in the biological sense, although it may be from a social or legal sense.

The fact is, most adults have sex. Sometimes, they have sex in front of other people or where others see them, whether they intended other people to see them or not. And some of those adults having sex are closely related. Provided they weren’t having sex in a public place or in someone else’s home, I would be more concerned about whether or not the people having sex were cheating on anyone than their relation to each other. Even then, other people having consensual sex isn’t really a matter in which one should interfere. Being invited to join is another matter. Here are my recommendations to someone who has discovered that someone they know is consanguinamorous.

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Posted in: allies,consanguineous,help,mother-son

Coverage of Genetic Sexual Attraction Case

Ignorance abounds when it comes to Genetic Sexual Attraction, as evidenced by both many of the journalists writing about the Mistie Atkinson case and certainly the people commenting on the stories. Outlets all over the word have covered the story, most just reprinting versions of the same two or three articles. [I am bumping this up because a news outlet decided to print this story as if it just happened.]

Here it is at dailymail.co.uk. The headline?

Mom who made sex tape with son, 16, is jailed for four years... but says it was just a case of 'genetic attraction' after they were reunited after 15 years apart

That makes it sound like she was making a video to show others.

Mistie Rebecca Atkinson, 32, was sentenced to four years and eight months behind bars in Napa County Superior Court, California on Wednesday.

It came after she was found in a Ukiah, California motel room with the 16-year-old boy, who had recorded his mother giving him oral sex on his phone.

 So he recorded it.

Here's the coverage at nydailynews.com.

Here is it at newsone.com.

Here it is at ktvu.com.

Even a site called eastafricanmoviedatabase.com printed the article.

Seamus O'Riley blogged the NY Daily News article.

Here is one of the comments...

equinox displayed complete ignorance of GSA... 

When is a rose not a rose? Incest by any other name smells so sweet. Let's play innocence by semantics today! 

Must be nice to be so sure that nobody else could possibly experience something you haven't.

And there were several comments from people who said she must have intended to assault him from the start. After all, why else would a woman care about seeing the person to whom she gave birth? Ignorance abounds.

Here is the inquisitr.com coverage, and the kolotv.com coverage, and the bossip.com coverage, where she is called crazy. Finally, see this blog for the same sort of thing, where she os called "sicko."

This was most certainly not incest in the sociological sense. She was not the boy's guardian. She did not raise the boy. She should be treated no more harshly than any other 32 year-old woman who does the same things with a 16 year-old boy in the state of California. If anything, the sentences in GSA cases that don't involve violence should be more lenient and focus on counseling.

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Posted in: California,consanguineous,courts,family reaction,GSA,incest,law,mother-son,myths,prejudice,prosecution,reunion

We Get Letters

This blog is visited by people all over the planet, and welcomes comments and I also welcome your emails and private messages. Everyone once in a while I publish some of those messages in a blog entry, which is what I’m I’m doing here.

Responding to an entry on hostility towards as grandfather-granddaughter couple, Anonymous wrote...

I would like to see an unbiased discussion of the ethical issues involved in grandfather/grandaughter mutual erotic atttaction and expression. With the ready availability of contraception, the fear of consanguinous offspring being possible is set aside. The likely negative reaction from other family members is still a very serious issue as is that of friends, etc. If the granddaughter is at or above the age of consent, the "between consenting adults" rule s h o u l d reign, but the many negative consequences would seem to outweigh the "reward."

Serious study of consanguinamorous relationships would be great.

After "Intergenerational Relationships Can Work," Anonymous wrote...

My wife and I, both 62, are in a committed relationship with a 34 year old man. This has been the most energizing invigorating experience imaginable. Jealously has never been an issue, and my wife believes that she is the luckiest woman on the planet because we love spoiling the crap out of her. Although we two guys are not bi, we are completely comfortable hugging, kissing and cuddling in bed with my wife in middle.

I asked if Jenny Erikson was stir crazy after something she wrote at TheStir on polyamory, and IchigoRadiance wrote...

 

This really caught my eye. "I can only imagine the psychological damage to a child who has to live with a revolving door of his parents’ various love interests."

This right here really has nothing to do with polyamory. Actually it sounds a lot more like what my older childhood was like. When I was in my teens after my mother divorced her abusive husband, and my, at the time step-father, she dated other men. Sometimes she dated them for long times and sometimes she dated them for short periods. Some of them had their issues, hence why she would quit dating them, so up until my eleventh grade of school, you could consider her relationships somewhat of a revolving door.

Here's the thing, while at times things were a little unstable. It wasn't because of her moving on to other men, the problems were the men themselves. By moving on, she was dumping trash, trying to find a guy that was better than all of that, and she eventually found a man who she is happy with. But she never would have found him had she stuck with any of the jerks in an attempt to keep a "stable" life.

And stable isn't exactly the word I think this person is looking for. Instead, consistent is the word. When we still lived with my ex-step-father. We had a consistent life. It masked itself as stability, but none of us were happy. It was consistent, but consistently bad.

So if say she dated more than one guy, I don't think my life or our life in general would have been all that destabilized. It might not have been consistent, but it would have been preferable to that douche who used to be her husband.

Of course, to be honest. I saw that and immediately wrote this, I went back up and saw that you talked about the revolving door as well.

IchigoRadiance also commented on "Hate Adds Pain to Genetic Sexual Attraction"...

I agree, no matter whether you both eventually end up in a relationship or not, it is best to wait until she is older.

As for if the feelings pass. I can't speak for everybody, and I myself count as someone with GSA or just someone who fell in love with his younger half-sister. But after ten years, my feelings have never disappeared. At times they have waxed and other times they have waned. But they are always there.

Anonymous self-reported after an entry on self-reporting of consanguineous sex that the first time he had sex, it was with his sister, who was three years older than him, and that they've been sexual partners for more than 12 years now, but they don't want to live together, or marry. Another person added her experiences with her brother, which included some childhood experimentation and an adult encounter.

There were a few comments left after my entry answering how common consensual incest is. One Anonymous entry recounts experimenting with his older sister and eventually moving in together as husband and wife...

Eventually after about 5 years of soul searching and testing of our love relationship,we moved to our new home as husband and wife.In our new home we had our first intercourse.It was an incredible feeling to have my thing inside her.I still love and respect her as my elder sister and abide her decisions.I always want to love her as I know she wants me only.I never want to break this relationship of love, trust,and deep understanding.We both are extremely happy together and have never felt the urge to be with someone else.We both feel extremely sad whenever we are separated for just a few hours.Now I am 55 years old and she 62 ! It has been a long journey.We have 4 daughter,three are married and well settled.while the youngest is in school.

After the entry on why consensual incest is still illegal in many places, Anonymous wrote...

The society today is rather disturbing, i see no reason that relationships between to consenting adults be illegal. As i am a female currently in a committed relationship with my [brother]. We did not grow up together due to circumstances when we were children. but after 30 years of searching for my family i found one of 5 of my siblings and the day we met was like magic, i instantly felt a fire start to burn inside and it wasnt that of us finding each other after so long it was instant love. i have waited my whole life for this feeling and the moment i saw my brother i knew he was the one.. we dont have to worry about having children cause i am fixed and we just want to be together.. is there any place we can go and have a open relationship. it pains both of us to have to hid it from everyone.. 

Liz Smith, a longtime friend of this blog, commented on an entry about female animals who mate with their close male relatives...

All I will say is that inbreeding does not automatically lead to children with problems. I have talked with people who were inbred, or who had children with family members, and I have not heard of any who had problems as a result of it. I myself had a daughter with my brother and she has turned out just fine. I am aware that constant inbreeding, generation after generation, can possibly lead to problems, but often times it is not as big a problem as many make it out to be.

IchigoRadiance commented again after that entry, too...

When people bring up the mutated baby argument, they forget that most problems arose from several generations of inbreeding. Which coincides with what you said. Most children born from consanguinamory are healthy,

Those that use cases such as royalty don't realize that that is a case where inbreeding was encouraged if not outright demanded. Most of it was to consolidate power. In the modern day, under non-abuse, most people will not choose to date or have children with a family member, and the frequency is not to be worried about. In other words, I think we would have to require inbreeding for it to become a problem. As it is, tolerance and/or acceptance won't cause it.

The other part of the coin is that our technology has improved, so we can easily tell if the child will have problems.

If people want to support eugenics, they need to do so on a consistent level and base it on more practically. They don't really care right now about the child, just filling a moral quota to show off.

Liz commented on a couple of more entries. After "Ten Myths About Sibling Consanguinamory" she wrote...

It happened between me and my brother. Why? Not because of abuse, but because we were close when younger and as we got older we fell in love. I love him, and I wish the world would accept relationships like ours. We will always be together. We have a daughter and may have more children one day. I know that we will have to explain our situation to them and help them understand, but nobody is ever going to convince me that loving my brother is wrong because I know in my heart that it is right.

After "Consanguinamory and Reproduction" she wrote...

I am in a relationship with my brother. My story is available on this blog here. My brother and I have a daughter together. She is perfectly healthy and happy, and we do plan to have more children. I've chatted with many people who had or who were incest children and they turned out fine. I believe that the risks are simply not as bad as we have been led to believe.

After "She Has Been Denied Her Freedom to Marry," Anonymous wrote...

I love what you had to say it was hard for me and my son at first but now we enjoy so much in each other. We both have one thing that turns both of us on and that is we both like the idea of us having sex with other people to. My son and I enjoy seeing each other in that way, sharing one another's love with others at times or all at the same time. This is keep all between us all. I never knew their was other family lovers like us untill now. We have changed other family's minds on this matter, once they gave it a try they agree that incest can be the most loving thing in the world to have between family members and friends alike.

And finally, after "He's on Cloud Nine," Anonymous wrote...

My mother and I began a consanguniumaous relationship with my mother when she was 48 and I was 28. Her second husband was dying of cancer and in a moment of weakness we both gave in to our urges and had sex. We were a couple for nearly six years when we decided not to risk anyone finding out so we stopped living together.

Although my mother got pregnant with our child she had a miscarriage and even though we not trying for a child my mother and I were hopeful she would get pregnant again but she began menopause and that was that.
 

We are still sexually active, even today but, like most relationships it has changed to us getting together occasionally to remember the strong love we still have for each other.

Thanks again to all who comment or who send emails or private messages.

Read more »

Posted in: brother-sister,children,consanguineous,grandfather-granddaugther,GSA,mother-son,polyamory,polyandry,pregnancy,reunion,siblings

Having to Hide An Intensified Love

By my count, this is the twenty-fifth ongoing relationship I've covered through exclusive interviews in which the lovers are denied the freedom to be open about their love and would be denied their freedom to marry, if they wanted to marry.

Anonymous Son has a consanguinamorous relationship with his mother. They have no plans to marry, but they should be free to do so if they want, and should not have to hide their love. They look like a great couple. Both of them are attractive. You could know them as mother and son and have no idea what they are doing behind closed doors, or you could see them walking hand and hand and think they are both attractive and look good together.

Read the interview below and ask yourself if there is one good reason their rights to love each other the way they want should be denied.


*****


FULL MARRIAGE EQUALITY: Describe yourself and your background.

Anonymous Son: I am a 22 year old Senior at a semi-ivy league school in the northeast US. I have had various part time jobs, mainly at the restaurant/bar that we own and internships at various companies during my college years. I am white, 5'10 with blonde hair and green eyes, I consider myself to be attractive. I have always been active and involved in various sports throughout highschool and college, I also enjoy film and literature. We live in a nice and quiet town, I would describe us as middleclass to upper-middleclass. As of right now I only have one younger sister who lives with us. For the first year of college, I lived in a dorm but moved back home and commuted for the rest. I have not been married. My mother was married to my father for 11 years, they divorced once I turned 10. My mom still hasn't remarried.




FME: How would you describe your sexual orientation and your relationship  orientation... are you heterosexual, bisexual, what? Are you a monogamist, polyamorist, or…?

As far as my sexual orientation goes I am heterosexual, I have never really had thoughts or been attracted to the same sex. As far as being a monogamist that's a tricky question. Most of my relationships have been monogamous, but I also had my the sexual relationship with my mother at home. I am actually not quiet sure how to answer that one.


FME: You are in a sexual relationship with your biological mother?

Yes.


FME: What kind of relationship did you have while you were growing up?

Growing up I had a very close relationship with my mother. I was always honest with her and talked to her about anything. She was always very supportive of me in anything that I did, be it school, sports, etc. After the divorce we became even closer as she kept custody of me and my sister. I also had a good relationship with my father, even after the divorce we still saw each other and kept contact.



FME: When and how did sexual affection become a part of your relationship?


Well it was very clear that it was my mother who made the first move. She didn't exactly 'seduce' me but brought it up to me in conversation before. We had a series of conversations. There was very light touching and affectionate gestures that could be thought of as how a mother usually interacts with her son physically, so I paid no attention to it then. I had no idea it would escalate to sex, however. She first began by complimenting my looks and asking me about girls/sex. Since we have always been open to each other these questions didn't really throw me off; I didn't suspect anything then. She then went on to tell me a story of the lady she met. The details were very vague but she just wanted to let me know that the point of it was that the woman was having sex with her son and their relationship was great. It was at this point were it became awkward and I began to get weirded out. She kept talking about it until one day she outright suggested that "it wouldn't be so bad if we were in that situation as well". She explained that her relationships weren't going so great and that all she wanted at this point was a steady casual relationship. By this point, I was sure she meant me. She mentioned that it would be casual and that she didn't want to push it or anything, it was completely up to me if I wanted to try it out or not.

At first I didn't respond as I was very confused. I wasn't disgusted, but definitely weirded out at the idea of casual sex with my mom. However, I was also very turned on, during this time I was a teenager and my hormones were raging. It was very hard to pass up the chance to have sex with an attractive older woman. It was also the beginning of the summer going into my senior year of high school. (By the way, I was over the age of consent in our state.)

I eventually worked up the courage and told her I would take her up on her offer. My mother simply smiled and said "great."

I wasn't sure what she had planned out. It didn't start as full out sex at first. I guess her idea was to ease me into it. She just began by touching me more sensually. For example, while we were watching a movie in our living room, she would rub the inside of my thigh. Eventually, one night, she asked me if I was ready to get intimate. I said I was and waited for her in my room.

I was very nervous waiting for her as I didn't know exactly what she was going to do. That night she just performed oral sex on me. I would be lying if I said I didn't enjoy it but I also felt very awkward afterwards. It's hard to explain since I never feel that way anymore. This went on for about a month until we had actual intercourse. From then on, I began to get used to it and it became a regular thing for us. I never have feelings of awkwardness after sexual relations anymore.



FME: Can you elaborate about your feelings during that process?

I felt very awkward at first. I didn't know how to respond to it. I have always found my mom to be attractive, but never really saw her as a potential sexual partner. My mother always took a liberal approach as to how she dressed around the house. She was very comfortable with us so she would often walk around in the morning in her underwear or revealing clothing. As a teenager, seeing this aroused me a lot but I still didn't think of her as a sexual being yet. When it first happened I remember feeling that it was very wrong that I was having sex with my own mother, but my thoughts of pleasure and her attractiveness overpowered that.



FME: How do you describe the sex now?

At first the sex felt very taboo and I felt very awkward talking to her about it or suggesting that I wanted to do it. It was often her who would initiate it. However, it is now very natural, since we live together it happens very often, almost daily. I would describe it best as a family-with-benefits situation. Like any other couple I will just go to her room at the end of the night or her to mine and we spend the night together. It is very uninhibited. I feel that we have  great sexual chemistry; because of this I can say that it is some of the best sex that I have had. She has also been one of my longest-term sexual partners. I do not feel it is that kinky however; it is now like regular sex.


FME: Describe your relationship now.

The relationship I have with my mom nowadays is very much still a regular mother-son relationship. She still yells at me and looks out for me [chuckles]. It is not a closed relationship, like I said earlier its more of a casual no-strings-attached thing. This has been going on for years now. For five months, we took a small break as I felt I was getting into a serious relationship, but we still continued afterwards. We still see each other as family but there are instances were I definitely feel like we’re lovers. There is often flirting through text messages and various flirty touches/physical affection going on through the day. I have had girlfriends, but none of them knew about the relationship I have with my mother. My mother has also had relationships but as far I know she didn't reveal it to them either. I know that eventually when I find the right girl I would have to let her know about my past.


FME: Does anyone in your life know the full nature/ of your relationship and how did they find out?

The only person who knows about us is my younger sister since she still lives with us. She found out about it early on, catching us one day when she arrived early from a night out. At first she was very upset and shocked. She immediately started cry. We gave her some space and explained our situation to her. At first she was very against it, but decided to keep it a secret, for the fear of embarrassment. However, she is now very receptive of the idea and very supportive of us and does a great job of keeping it a secret. She will often joke about it saying we make a 'cute couple'.  We are not able to act as couple in public because of obvious reasons. My mother owns a bar/restaurant which is very busy and well-known in our town. The only time we have been able to act as a couple in public has been during vacations outside the country.


FME: Having to hide the full nature of your relationship from some people can be a disadvantage. Can you describe how that has been? Are there any other disadvantages? Conversely, do you think consanguineous relationships have some advantages and some things better than unrelated lovers?

Well like I said before, it is a casual relationship so having to hide it in public is not really a huge disadvantage for us. Just like any other casual relationship, steps must be taken to ensure that privacy. First off, none of my friends know about it. I have never mentioned it to anyone except my sister. I can see, however, in a romantic relationship, how it would be a big disadvantage, not being able to share your love to others and not being able to do certain things in public. I feel consanguineous relationships do have some advantages over non-related ones, fYou already know the person and are very close to. It also helps if you are living together. There’s already a bond there between family members that can grow into something even bigger.



FME: What do you want to say to people who disapprove of your relationship, or disapprove of anyone having this kind of relationship? What's your reply to those who would say that this is one of you preying on the other?

To the people who disapprove, I understand everyone has their views of whats right and wrong. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but should not attack others with different views. If you disagree with it thats fine, but theres no reason why it should be illegal. If both parties are consenting adults it should not be a problem. I made a conscious decision to have sex with my mom, I was not coerced into it.

The only downside to relationships like this is that if there's a problem in the relationship and its over, you are ultimately losing a family member and partner. There can be cases were this doesn't happen though.


FME: What advice do you have for someone who may be experiencing feelings for a mother or son, or some other relative? What advice do you have for family members and friends who think or know that relatives they know are having these feelings for each other?

My advice to others experiencing this is to test the waters first. You don't know if the other family member is attracted to you. You need solid evidence before making any sort of move. Anything that you say could be interpreted the wrong way and cause problems within your family. My advice for friends and family members is to be supportive and discreet. It is not wrong and even if you disagree, respect their decisions and keep it a secret.


FME: Any plans for the future?

I plan to continue my sexual relationship with my mother for the time being. We are both still young so I don't see it ending anytime soon. There will come a time when I have to stop it, but not right now.


FME: Do you know in-person others you know to have had relationships like yours?

I have not met anyone who practiced incest, although I have wanted to. My mother did know another lady who had sexual relationship with her son as well. It is actually what convinced her to try it in the first place. I am not sure about the details of their relationship though.


FME: Anything else you want to add?

I just want to say that there really have been no problems for either of us. It has been a very positive experience and we will continue it for times to come.


*****


There you have it. Two consenting adults who aren't hurting anyone, but who have to hide their love.

Why should they be denied their rights? There’s no good reason.We need to recognize that all adults should be free to be with any and all consenting adults as they mutually consent, and part of doing that is adopting full marriage equality sooner rather than later. People are being hurt because of a denial of their basic human rights to love each other freely.

You can read other interviews I have done here.

If you are in a relationship like this and are looking for help or others you can talk with, read this.

If you are a family member or friend of someone who is in or may be in such a relationship, please read this.

Thank you to Anonymous Son and his mother for sharing their relationship with us.

Read more »

Posted in: consanguineous,family reaction,love,mother-son

Having to Hide An Intensified Love

By my count, this is the twenty-fifth ongoing relationship I've covered through exclusive interviews in which the lovers are denied the freedom to be open about their love and would be denied their freedom to marry, if they wanted to marry.

Anonymous Son has a consanguinamorous relationship with his mother. They have no plans to marry, but they should be free to do so if they want, and should not have to hide their love. They look like a great couple. Both of them are attractive. You could know them as mother and son and have no idea what they are doing behind closed doors, or you could see them walking hand and hand and think they are both attractive and look good together.

Read the interview below and ask yourself if there is one good reason their rights to love each other the way they want should be denied.


*****


FULL MARRIAGE EQUALITY: Describe yourself and your background.

Anonymous Son: I am a 22 year old Senior at a semi-ivy league school in the northeast US. I have had various part time jobs, mainly at the restaurant/bar that we own and internships at various companies during my college years. I am white, 5'10 with blonde hair and green eyes, I consider myself to be attractive. I have always been active and involved in various sports throughout highschool and college, I also enjoy film and literature. We live in a nice and quiet town, I would describe us as middleclass to upper-middleclass. As of right now I only have one younger sister who lives with us. For the first year of college, I lived in a dorm but moved back home and commuted for the rest. I have not been married. My mother was married to my father for 11 years, they divorced once I turned 10. My mom still hasn't remarried.




FME: How would you describe your sexual orientation and your relationship  orientation... are you heterosexual, bisexual, what? Are you a monogamist, polyamorist, or…?

As far as my sexual orientation goes I am heterosexual, I have never really had thoughts or been attracted to the same sex. As far as being a monogamist that's a tricky question. Most of my relationships have been monogamous, but I also had my the sexual relationship with my mother at home. I am actually not quiet sure how to answer that one.


FME: You are in a sexual relationship with your biological mother?

Yes.


FME: What kind of relationship did you have while you were growing up?

Growing up I had a very close relationship with my mother. I was always honest with her and talked to her about anything. She was always very supportive of me in anything that I did, be it school, sports, etc. After the divorce we became even closer as she kept custody of me and my sister. I also had a good relationship with my father, even after the divorce we still saw each other and kept contact.



FME: When and how did sexual affection become a part of your relationship?


Well it was very clear that it was my mother who made the first move. She didn't exactly 'seduce' me but brought it up to me in conversation before. We had a series of conversations. There was very light touching and affectionate gestures that could be thought of as how a mother usually interacts with her son physically, so I paid no attention to it then. I had no idea it would escalate to sex, however. She first began by complimenting my looks and asking me about girls/sex. Since we have always been open to each other these questions didn't really throw me off; I didn't suspect anything then. She then went on to tell me a story of the lady she met. The details were very vague but she just wanted to let me know that the point of it was that the woman was having sex with her son and their relationship was great. It was at this point were it became awkward and I began to get weirded out. She kept talking about it until one day she outright suggested that "it wouldn't be so bad if we were in that situation as well". She explained that her relationships weren't going so great and that all she wanted at this point was a steady casual relationship. By this point, I was sure she meant me. She mentioned that it would be casual and that she didn't want to push it or anything, it was completely up to me if I wanted to try it out or not.

At first I didn't respond as I was very confused. I wasn't disgusted, but definitely weirded out at the idea of casual sex with my mom. However, I was also very turned on, during this time I was a teenager and my hormones were raging. It was very hard to pass up the chance to have sex with an attractive older woman. It was also the beginning of the summer going into my senior year of high school. (By the way, I was over the age of consent in our state.)

I eventually worked up the courage and told her I would take her up on her offer. My mother simply smiled and said "great."

I wasn't sure what she had planned out. It didn't start as full out sex at first. I guess her idea was to ease me into it. She just began by touching me more sensually. For example, while we were watching a movie in our living room, she would rub the inside of my thigh. Eventually, one night, she asked me if I was ready to get intimate. I said I was and waited for her in my room.

I was very nervous waiting for her as I didn't know exactly what she was going to do. That night she just performed oral sex on me. I would be lying if I said I didn't enjoy it but I also felt very awkward afterwards. It's hard to explain since I never feel that way anymore. This went on for about a month until we had actual intercourse. From then on, I began to get used to it and it became a regular thing for us. I never have feelings of awkwardness after sexual relations anymore.



FME: Can you elaborate about your feelings during that process?

I felt very awkward at first. I didn't know how to respond to it. I have always found my mom to be attractive, but never really saw her as a potential sexual partner. My mother always took a liberal approach as to how she dressed around the house. She was very comfortable with us so she would often walk around in the morning in her underwear or revealing clothing. As a teenager, seeing this aroused me a lot but I still didn't think of her as a sexual being yet. When it first happened I remember feeling that it was very wrong that I was having sex with my own mother, but my thoughts of pleasure and her attractiveness overpowered that.



FME: How do you describe the sex now?

At first the sex felt very taboo and I felt very awkward talking to her about it or suggesting that I wanted to do it. It was often her who would initiate it. However, it is now very natural, since we live together it happens very often, almost daily. I would describe it best as a family-with-benefits situation. Like any other couple I will just go to her room at the end of the night or her to mine and we spend the night together. It is very uninhibited. I feel that we have  great sexual chemistry; because of this I can say that it is some of the best sex that I have had. She has also been one of my longest-term sexual partners. I do not feel it is that kinky however; it is now like regular sex.


FME: Describe your relationship now.

The relationship I have with my mom nowadays is very much still a regular mother-son relationship. She still yells at me and looks out for me [chuckles]. It is not a closed relationship, like I said earlier its more of a casual no-strings-attached thing. This has been going on for years now. For five months, we took a small break as I felt I was getting into a serious relationship, but we still continued afterwards. We still see each other as family but there are instances were I definitely feel like we’re lovers. There is often flirting through text messages and various flirty touches/physical affection going on through the day. I have had girlfriends, but none of them knew about the relationship I have with my mother. My mother has also had relationships but as far I know she didn't reveal it to them either. I know that eventually when I find the right girl I would have to let her know about my past.


FME: Does anyone in your life know the full nature/ of your relationship and how did they find out?

The only person who knows about us is my younger sister since she still lives with us. She found out about it early on, catching us one day when she arrived early from a night out. At first she was very upset and shocked. She immediately started cry. We gave her some space and explained our situation to her. At first she was very against it, but decided to keep it a secret, for the fear of embarrassment. However, she is now very receptive of the idea and very supportive of us and does a great job of keeping it a secret. She will often joke about it saying we make a 'cute couple'.  We are not able to act as couple in public because of obvious reasons. My mother owns a bar/restaurant which is very busy and well-known in our town. The only time we have been able to act as a couple in public has been during vacations outside the country.


FME: Having to hide the full nature of your relationship from some people can be a disadvantage. Can you describe how that has been? Are there any other disadvantages? Conversely, do you think consanguineous relationships have some advantages and some things better than unrelated lovers?

Well like I said before, it is a casual relationship so having to hide it in public is not really a huge disadvantage for us. Just like any other casual relationship, steps must be taken to ensure that privacy. First off, none of my friends know about it. I have never mentioned it to anyone except my sister. I can see, however, in a romantic relationship, how it would be a big disadvantage, not being able to share your love to others and not being able to do certain things in public. I feel consanguineous relationships do have some advantages over non-related ones, fYou already know the person and are very close to. It also helps if you are living together. There’s already a bond there between family members that can grow into something even bigger.



FME: What do you want to say to people who disapprove of your relationship, or disapprove of anyone having this kind of relationship? What's your reply to those who would say that this is one of you preying on the other?

To the people who disapprove, I understand everyone has their views of whats right and wrong. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but should not attack others with different views. If you disagree with it thats fine, but theres no reason why it should be illegal. If both parties are consenting adults it should not be a problem. I made a conscious decision to have sex with my mom, I was not coerced into it.

The only downside to relationships like this is that if there's a problem in the relationship and its over, you are ultimately losing a family member and partner. There can be cases were this doesn't happen though.


FME: What advice do you have for someone who may be experiencing feelings for a mother or son, or some other relative? What advice do you have for family members and friends who think or know that relatives they know are having these feelings for each other?

My advice to others experiencing this is to test the waters first. You don't know if the other family member is attracted to you. You need solid evidence before making any sort of move. Anything that you say could be interpreted the wrong way and cause problems within your family. My advice for friends and family members is to be supportive and discreet. It is not wrong and even if you disagree, respect their decisions and keep it a secret.


FME: Any plans for the future?

I plan to continue my sexual relationship with my mother for the time being. We are both still young so I don't see it ending anytime soon. There will come a time when I have to stop it, but not right now.


FME: Do you know in-person others you know to have had relationships like yours?

I have not met anyone who practiced incest, although I have wanted to. My mother did know another lady who had sexual relationship with her son as well. It is actually what convinced her to try it in the first place. I am not sure about the details of their relationship though.


FME: Anything else you want to add?

I just want to say that there really have been no problems for either of us. It has been a very positive experience and we will continue it for times to come.


*****


There you have it. Two consenting adults who aren't hurting anyone, but who have to hide their love.

Why should they be denied their rights? There’s no good reason.We need to recognize that all adults should be free to be with any and all consenting adults as they mutually consent, and part of doing that is adopting full marriage equality sooner rather than later. People are being hurt because of a denial of their basic human rights to love each other freely.

You can read other interviews I have done here.

If you are in a relationship like this and are looking for help or others you can talk with, read this.

If you are a family member or friend of someone who is in or may be in such a relationship, please read this.

Thank you to Anonymous Son and his mother for sharing their relationship with us.

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Posted in: consanguineous,family reaction,love,mother-son

Females Who Mate With Their Brothers and Fathers

Fruit flies... we're talking about fruit flies. Below is the news I found on my own, but first is this take on it by Alex B. Berezow at realclearscience.com, provided by a kind friend of FME. Don't be shy about calling my attention to anything relevant to this blog.

The article says "inbreeding" isn't all bad, despite popular notions...

If acted upon by natural selection, bad mutations can be wiped out more easily, thus speeding the rate of evolution. And for some reason, third- and fourth-cousins that marry each other in Iceland have more children.

But what about the fruit flies?

When given a choice between a brother or a non-brother, females preferred mating with their brother. But, males did not prefer their sister. They simply tolerated mating with their sister, picking them roughly half the time. Similarly, females showed no preference when choosing between their father or a non-father, picking their dad about 50% of the time. Males wooed their moms, but no successful mating occurred.

Interesting.

The authors conclude that inbreeding occurs in fruit flies because it may increase their inclusive fitness.

The  article's author makes bigoted comments to make it clear he is disgusted, or at least wants us to think he's disgusted.

Source: Loyau A, Cornuau JH, Clobert J, Danchin É (2012). "Incestuous Sisters: Mate Preference for Brothers over Unrelated Males in Drosophila melanogaster." PLoS ONE 7(12): e51293. doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0051293

I am compelled to point out that consaguinamory and consanguineous sex or marriage do not necessarily mean inbreeding, and most children born to close relatives are healthy. And, as I often mention, what happens with other species, especially ones as different as fruit flies, doesn't necessarily apply to humans. But it is fun to have information like this handy when someone tries to tell you that consanguinamory is unnatural. Funny thing, is, none of these people who say this go a single day of their lives without unnatural things.

Here's the journal piece I had already found on this...

We investigated male and female mate preferences with respect to relatedness in the fruit fly D. melanogaster. Experiments offered the choice between a first order relative (full-sibling or parent) and an unrelated individual with the same age and mating history. We found that females significantly preferred mating with their brothers, thus supporting inbreeding preference. Moreover, females did not avoid mating with their fathers, and males did not avoid mating with their sisters, thus supporting inbreeding tolerance. Our experiments therefore add empirical evidence for inbreeding preference, which strengthens the prediction that inbreeding tolerance and preference can evolve under specific circumstances through the positive effects on inclusive fitness.

The information is extensive, complete with many references. It is good reading for those of you who enjoy scientific journals.

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Posted in: brother-sister,consanguineous,father-daughter,incest,mother-son,pregnancy,science,siblings

Like Father, Like Son

Consanguinamory happens between people and their adult children more than most people think. Another forbidden relationship that is, perhaps, even more frequent is between adults and their new stepparent, especially if their stepparent is closer in age to them than their parent. In addition to steprelations being seen as incestuous, another aspect that also makes many of these relationships forbidden is when they involve cheating due to the stepparent violating a vow or agreement with the parent. (Not all have such agreements and thus the relationship with the "stepchild" would not be seen as cheating.)

At islamweb.net there was something that addressed these topics, headlined with attention-grabbing "His wife and son have regular incestuous relations together."

It appears to be an advice column. From the question...

Respected Sheikh, I am a man in my late sixties and recently discovered that my 33 year old wife has regular incestuous relations with my 17 years old son.

A few things to note right away: 1. Although this is not written so as to make clear she is not the biological mother of his son, I think if she was the biological mother of the son that would have been explicitly stated, which is not. 2. She is closer in age to his son than she is him. 3. Seventeen year-old males generally are bursting with hormones and constantly wanting sex. Leave one alone all day with an attractive person and... well, this isn't surprising. 4. It is entirely possible that where they live 17-year-olds can legally consent to sex with 33-year-olds.

When I confronted them they denied it, but one day I came home unexpectedly and found them in the act. They repented and promised not to do it again.

So this was a matter of cheating.

I am devastated and don’t know what to do. I beg you to tell me in the light of the Quran and hadith what course of actions I shall take.

This is, of course, from a Muslim website. Being cheated on, especially when the other person is another person you thought you could trust, is painful. My advice would be to seriously consider if this is unacceptable, and if he needs her to only have sex with him, if he's going to be able to treat her right going forward without going batty. If not, then the marriage should be over. But he didn't ask me. Let's get to the response was given...



First, there was a statement of what sins were committed according to Islamic teaching.

However, if they had both truly repented, then they did well.

Now, if your wife becomes righteous and shows good conduct, then you should keep her and have good marital relations with her and do not hold her accountable for what she had done, but you are obligated not to have sexual relations with her until you make sure that she is not pregnant from Zina by the passing of one menstrual period.

Also, you should be keen on disciplining both of your wife and son and teaching them the matters of their religion as what they did is mostly due to ignorance and negligence.

I doubt they were unaware what the religious authorities would say. They were horny, and perhaps also in love. But we get some more Quranic verses anyway. Then...

On the other hand, if you are suspicious about your son in the future, then you should take the matter firmly in hand and prevent him from being in seclusion with your wife and prevent her from appearing in his presence without Hijaab. Likewise, if you are suspicious about your wife, then there is no good in keeping her as your wife; rather you should divorce her so that she would not contaminate your bed and give birth to children who are not from you.

Finally, it should be noted that committing Zina is generally due to being lenient in matters that lead to it, like a woman appearing in front of men (other than her husband) in an inappropriate manner, like wearing revealing clothes and so forth. So, one should be careful about this.

Ah yes, this was all because she wasn't covered up in a Hijaab. Uh huh.

I do find other cultures' perspectives interesting.

Something people need to keep in mind is that while the Westermarck Effect (reduced sexual attraction) is common between people raised together or by one another, it isn't there when you bring someone new into your adult/post-pubescent child's life, whether that is your new lover, partner or spouse, or any post-pubescent children they have. This man was attracted to this woman. Why wouldn't his son be, too? That doesn't excuse cheating; someone who needs monogamy and has received a pledge of monogamy should expect monogamy as long as they are not neglecting their partner. But if he was living under the assumption that his son and wife were unlikely to be attracted to each other on some level, it was a mistaken assumption, as demonstrated.

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Posted in: boundaries,cheating,family reaction,incest,Islam,mother-son,religion

Like Father, Like Son

Consanguinamory happens between people and their adult children more than most people think. Another forbidden relationship that is, perhaps, even more frequent is between adults and their new stepparent, especially if their stepparent is closer in age to them than their parent. In addition to steprelations being seen as incestuous, another aspect that also makes many of these relationships forbidden is when they involve cheating due to the stepparent violating a vow or agreement with the parent. (Not all have such agreements and thus the relationship with the "stepchild" would not be seen as cheating.)

At islamweb.net there was something that addressed these topics, headlined with attention-grabbing "His wife and son have regular incestuous relations together."

It appears to be an advice column. From the question...

Respected Sheikh, I am a man in my late sixties and recently discovered that my 33 year old wife has regular incestuous relations with my 17 years old son.

A few things to note right away: 1. Although this is not written so as to make clear she is not the biological mother of his son, I think if she was the biological mother of the son that would have been explicitly stated, which is not. 2. She is closer in age to his son than she is him. 3. Seventeen year-old males generally are bursting with hormones and constantly wanting sex. Leave one alone all day with an attractive person and... well, this isn't surprising. 4. It is entirely possible that where they live 17-year-olds can legally consent to sex with 33-year-olds.

When I confronted them they denied it, but one day I came home unexpectedly and found them in the act. They repented and promised not to do it again.

So this was a matter of cheating.

I am devastated and don’t know what to do. I beg you to tell me in the light of the Quran and hadith what course of actions I shall take.

This is, of course, from a Muslim website. Being cheated on, especially when the other person is another person you thought you could trust, is painful. My advice would be to seriously consider if this is unacceptable, and if he needs her to only have sex with him, if he's going to be able to treat her right going forward without going batty. If not, then the marriage should be over. But he didn't ask me. Let's get to the response was given...



First, there was a statement of what sins were committed according to Islamic teaching.

However, if they had both truly repented, then they did well.

Now, if your wife becomes righteous and shows good conduct, then you should keep her and have good marital relations with her and do not hold her accountable for what she had done, but you are obligated not to have sexual relations with her until you make sure that she is not pregnant from Zina by the passing of one menstrual period.

Also, you should be keen on disciplining both of your wife and son and teaching them the matters of their religion as what they did is mostly due to ignorance and negligence.

I doubt they were unaware what the religious authorities would say. They were horny, and perhaps also in love. But we get some more Quranic verses anyway. Then...

On the other hand, if you are suspicious about your son in the future, then you should take the matter firmly in hand and prevent him from being in seclusion with your wife and prevent her from appearing in his presence without Hijaab. Likewise, if you are suspicious about your wife, then there is no good in keeping her as your wife; rather you should divorce her so that she would not contaminate your bed and give birth to children who are not from you.

Finally, it should be noted that committing Zina is generally due to being lenient in matters that lead to it, like a woman appearing in front of men (other than her husband) in an inappropriate manner, like wearing revealing clothes and so forth. So, one should be careful about this.

Ah yes, this was all because she wasn't covered up in a Hijaab. Uh huh.

I do find other cultures' perspectives interesting.

Something people need to keep in mind is that while the Westermarck Effect (reduced sexual attraction) is common between people raised together or by one another, it isn't there when you bring someone new into your adult/post-pubescent child's life, whether that is your new lover, partner or spouse, or any post-pubescent children they have. This man was attracted to this woman. Why wouldn't his son be, too? That doesn't excuse cheating; someone who needs monogamy and has received a pledge of monogamy should expect monogamy as long as they are not neglecting their partner. But if he was living under the assumption that his son and wife were unlikely to be attracted to each other on some level, it was a mistaken assumption, as demonstrated.

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Posted in: boundaries,cheating,family reaction,incest,Islam,mother-son,religion

An Ongoing Consanguinamorous Journey

If you aren't familiar with Tumblr, it combines blogging with networking. As a result, it is full of interesting things and you can find just about any topic portrayed or discussed there. Of interest to this blog are all of the LGBT people, polyamorous people, consanguinamorous people, allies, fetishes, and paraphilias represented there. There is much NSFW stuff that can be found there, and bloggers can flag their own stuff as such. While there is much fictional incest fetish porn material there, that sort of thing is very different than what can also be found there: people sharing their experiences with consanguinamory.

Their Own Moms is a popular blog by a young man who has had a serious romantic interest and sexual attraction for his mother and took to blogging as at outlet and to share with others who have been in the same boat.  His mother is single and he has no siblings. For a while, he has blogged about his feelings, answered questions from others. Most of those entries have been well-written and endearing. Between some of those entries have been other entries visualy depicting explicit sex that have nothing to do with the blogger or his mother, other than being a turn-on for the blogger (and many followers.)

The blogger has been on a journey. Not too long ago, that journey involved taking his mother on dates that could be construed as romantic, and there was at least one occasion where they literally slept together, but it wasn't until later that the blogger told his mother clearly that he was actually in love with her and wanted to make love to her.

His followers had to patiently wait for his updates, but if you're so inclined, you can get to the "good stuff" right now. And while he and his followers were not sure if her reaction would be disastrous or simply one of disinterest, I'll go ahead and spoil it for you and say...



...that her reaction could not have been better for the blogger (and his followers.)

If you want some of the lead-up, here are just some of the relevant entries...

This entry, which discusses some of their dating....

I said there wasn’t anywhere I’d rather be or anyone I’d rather be with than her. That got quite a smile too. And she said the same thing back, that there was nobody she’d rather be with than me. So hooray me!

Then we officially agreed on it. We’re gonna do something next Friday. I think dinner and then there was nothing really decided beyond that. But I said “It’s a date!” and she smiled and said she can’t wait.

This entry, which is a recap of that date...

It was awesome. She looked amazing.

We stayed at the restaurant over an hour after we finished eating, just talking. I have no idea how she felt, but I was so into her it was like time didn’t even exist.

But we eventually checked the time and left so we could make the movie. Right after it started I took her hand like I did at the fireworks and we held hands pretty much the whole movie. So that was pretty great.

It was already 2am by the time we got from the theater to our car, so we went right home. She was pretty tired. But after we pulled into the garage I asked her if she’d go out with me again. She gave me one of her incredible smiles and said of course. I asked if I could kiss her goodnight and got the same smile and same “of course”.

This entry details when they literally slept together...

So let me be clear: no, I didn’t “sleep with her” as in we had sex. I had no sex with her. Or with anyone else for that matter.

And...

So we’re laying there talking. And after a few minutes the more we talked the more there was this delay between her answers. Like I would say something and then a few seconds would pass and she’d say something back. Then I’d say something again and even more seconds would pass and then she’d say something back. It was like her batteries were running down.

Then eventually I said something and I got no response. I lifted up to look at her and she was asleep. I rolled to my side and just laid there looking at her. This insanely gorgeous woman who was now in my bed. And I’m thinking, boy, Mom in my bed. This is a sight I’d like to see a whole lot more of.

He continued to write about that night in another entry, which also talked about the following morning.

In this entry, he explains how how he told her that he was in love with her.

I looked her right in the eye, I said I was serious, and I told her I was completely, totally, madly in love with her.

She was surprised, as you can probably imagine. Her eyes widened and her mouth came open a little. I think she was waiting to see if I was going to say or do something to show I was kidding. But I didn’t. And from the way I said it and the way I was looking at her, she caught on very quickly that I meant it. In this lilting kind of way she said “Baby…” and put her hand on mine.

Then I just launched into it. I told her everything I’ve ever wanted to tell her about how amazing she is. I told her how incredibly beautiful she is. I was absolutely clear that I wanted to be with her romantically and that she’s the only woman for me.

In this entry, he talks about finding out she'd planned a trip, and how he elaborated to her about his feelings....

I should mention that even though I had already told her I was in love with her and I was very clear about wanting to be together, I never specifically said the words “I want to have sex with you”. And now I was pretty unmistakably telling her that I wanted to have sex with her. So this felt just as big to me as telling her I was in love with her had felt. And it all came completely out of nowhere in just a few seconds, which was insane.

Anyway, she raised her eyebrows. But only a little. She didn’t look overly surprised. The expression on her face was like “Huh. How about that?”

Then she said “You were, huh?” Speaking very straightforward like. Very matter of fact.

I said yes. I was. I hoped for this more than anything I had ever hoped for.

She just nodded. Her face was like “Hmm. Interesting”. Then she said “That would be quite a big step for us to take”.

I remember thinking that was something of an understatement. But I didn’t say anything. I don’t think I even breathed.

Then she said “Can I have some time to think about it?”

And I thought… what? She’ll think about it? Really?! Because “I’ll think about it” isn’t “no”. And not only isn’t it “no”… it might be “yes”!

So I said “Of course!” Think about it! Take all the time you need! Think away! And, again, very matter of factly, she said OK. She would think about it.

And the night before the trip, they were packing...

Then we played “This one or this one?” with the clothes she brought in. Naturally, I picked all the stuff I thought she’d look the hottest in. Although that’s splitting hairs since she looks hot in anything. It only took a couple minutes and then we were done.

Then, very casually, very normally, she was like “Oh, hang on” and she grabbed the blue bag. Then she pulled out two things of lingerie, held ‘em up to me, and said “This one or this one?”

It caught me completely off guard. I was stunned. BTW, just for the sake of thoroughness, one of the things she held up was a lacy bra and panties and garters and one was like a sheer teddy type of thing. Not that I really noticed at the time in the state I was in.

She held them up for several seconds because I wasn’t saying anything. My brain had gone blank. She finally said “Well?” and I went “…both?” More like a question than an answer. She said “OK” and put them back in the bag.

A few seconds passed and then I was like “Um… am I… gonna get… to SEE you in those?”

Just like on my birthday, being all matter of fact, she said something like “Well, I did buy them for this trip.”

There more recent entries detailing explicitly what ended up happening, and the blogger indicates that he made his blog (which keeps them anonymous) known to her, so the "payoff" entries were posted with her blessing.

One must wonder how long Tumblr's new corporate owner will allow so much freedom of expression.

Here's my own Tumblr, which I try to keep SFW. Connect with me there!

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Posted in: coming out,consanguineous,love,mother-son

Where Are They Now?

Some people, while not themselves involved in consanguinamory, are turned on by erotica with an incest theme. Some people who are, or have been, involved in consanguinamory want nothing to do interacting with or providing masturbation material for the first group. This causes friction when these two groups intersect at incest websites. (As always, I’m referring to adult consensual sex.) Some discussion forums have deliberately maintained a policy prohibiting pornographic images or videos. Some of the antiporn sentiment within the consanguinamory community mirrors a general population antiporn sentiment that adult videos and images aren’t good representations of, or are even antithetical to, the reality of intimacy and lovemaking.

I'm not here to take sides on that issue. I try to keep this blog a safe and welcoming place to visit for all.

The rest of this entry is about a specific set of such explicit adult incest videos that have been widely circulated, as I have a curiosity about the participants. Click to read more only if you want to read or comment on this subject. [I am bumping up this entry because it is still relevant.]


As the title says, “Where are they now?” Where are the people who are in these videos, which are presented as real, rather than fictional or fantasy?

The series to which I can refer can be described as the “Incest Taboo” series, although probably many series have taken some form of that title. At least one of these has a "World Net, Inc." copyright. Last I checked, the videos were being sold at a US-based website associated with a paid-subscription forum, with two short previews of each video provided for free. The videos have been at various video-tube websites for free streaming, probably to the irritation of those selling the videos, who presumably made many of them and were first to “release” all of them.

A few examples of the videos…

Incest Taboo 1: Alex, Brandy, Cathy. They claim to be brother, sister, and sister, and I can believe it. I could also believe it if they got high right before they started recording (just a hunch I got.) They did their own camera work. This could have been made in 2001 or before.

Incest Taboo 4: Michael and Lynn. They claim to be brother and sister, and I can believe it. They also did their own camera work.

Incest Taboo 5: Barbara and Jason. They claim to be mother and son, and have identical hair color. They have someone else doing the camera work.

Some of the subsequent videos have someone from the “Incest Taboo” site interviewing the participants before the sex, during which the interviewers do the camera work. One video has a man who has difficulty getting and keeping and erection, at least in front of the cameras and watchers. That's hardly a mark of professional performer.

There are several reasons I have to wonder “Where are these people now?" Most of the participants of the videos I actually saw sound like they are from the US and perhaps Canada, where consensual adult sex between siblings and between parents and children is still illegal in most places, and subject to hateful prejudice and discrimination even where not subject to prosecution. As stupid as any laws against consensual sex are, it still seems risky to appear on video doing something that is illegal in so many places. Then again, prosecuting them, at least in the US, would be a state/local matter, and it would be difficult to prove where the “crime” actually took place, and thus proving that it took place in the prosecutor’s jurisdiction.

As I ask in the interviews I have done, I’m curious about how their relationships have fit in to the rest of their lives. What effects, if any, the videos have had on their lives? Are they still active with each other? Were any contacted by law enforcement? Did neighbors or other family members see the videos and say anything to them? One claimed brother and sister are married to other people, who apparently don’t know what they are doing with each other (cheating.) Did the spouses ever find out?

Many people are taking video of themselves having sex now, and even sharing it with the world. It’s another thing, though, for someone involved in consanguinamory to put it on video for the world to see, especially with strangers in the room.

So while I would expect they used pseudonyms in the videos, I have to wonder, where are you now, Alex, Brandy, Cathy (Incest Taboo 1,) Michael and Lynn (4), Barbara and Jason (5), Tom and Marie (6), Dre and Jessica (9), Tabitha and Brian (12), Gabe and Gretchen (13), Bobby and Jill (14), Rick and Tabitha (16) and the rest?

Anyone who has appeared in those videos or others that are presented as actual consanguinamory and can answer my questions (and anyone else for that matter), can contact me at fullmarriageequality at yahoo dot com or on Facebook.

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Posted in: brother-sister,cheating,coming out,consanguineous,father-daughter,incest,media,mother-son,polyamory,siblings,triads

Where Are They Now?

Some people, while not themselves involved in consanguinamory, are turned on by erotica with an incest theme. Some people who are, or have been, involved in consanguinamory want nothing to do interacting with or providing masturbation material for the first group. This causes friction when these two groups intersect at incest websites. (As always, I’m referring to adult consensual sex.) Some discussion forums have deliberately maintained a policy prohibiting pornographic images or videos. Some of the antiporn sentiment within the consanguinamory community mirrors a general population antiporn sentiment that adult videos and images aren’t good representations of, or are even antithetical to, the reality of intimacy and lovemaking.

I'm not here to take sides on that issue. I try to keep this blog a safe and welcoming place to visit for all.

The rest of this entry is about a specific set of such explicit adult incest videos that have been widely circulated, as I have a curiosity about the participants. Click to read more only if you want to read or comment on this subject. [I am bumping up this entry because it is still relevant.]


As the title says, “Where are they now?” Where are the people who are in these videos, which are presented as real, rather than fictional or fantasy?

The series to which I can refer can be described as the “Incest Taboo” series, although probably many series have taken some form of that title. At least one of these has a "World Net, Inc." copyright. Last I checked, the videos were being sold at a US-based website associated with a paid-subscription forum, with two short previews of each video provided for free. The videos have been at various video-tube websites for free streaming, probably to the irritation of those selling the videos, who presumably made many of them and were first to “release” all of them.

A few examples of the videos…

Incest Taboo 1: Alex, Brandy, Cathy. They claim to be brother, sister, and sister, and I can believe it. I could also believe it if they got high right before they started recording (just a hunch I got.) They did their own camera work. This could have been made in 2001 or before.

Incest Taboo 4: Michael and Lynn. They claim to be brother and sister, and I can believe it. They also did their own camera work.

Incest Taboo 5: Barbara and Jason. They claim to be mother and son, and have identical hair color. They have someone else doing the camera work.

Some of the subsequent videos have someone from the “Incest Taboo” site interviewing the participants before the sex, during which the interviewers do the camera work. One video has a man who has difficulty getting and keeping and erection, at least in front of the cameras and watchers. That's hardly a mark of professional performer.

There are several reasons I have to wonder “Where are these people now?" Most of the participants of the videos I actually saw sound like they are from the US and perhaps Canada, where consensual adult sex between siblings and between parents and children is still illegal in most places, and subject to hateful prejudice and discrimination even where not subject to prosecution. As stupid as any laws against consensual sex are, it still seems risky to appear on video doing something that is illegal in so many places. Then again, prosecuting them, at least in the US, would be a state/local matter, and it would be difficult to prove where the “crime” actually took place, and thus proving that it took place in the prosecutor’s jurisdiction.

As I ask in the interviews I have done, I’m curious about how their relationships have fit in to the rest of their lives. What effects, if any, the videos have had on their lives? Are they still active with each other? Were any contacted by law enforcement? Did neighbors or other family members see the videos and say anything to them? One claimed brother and sister are married to other people, who apparently don’t know what they are doing with each other (cheating.) Did the spouses ever find out?

Many people are taking video of themselves having sex now, and even sharing it with the world. It’s another thing, though, for someone involved in consanguinamory to put it on video for the world to see, especially with strangers in the room.

So while I would expect they used pseudonyms in the videos, I have to wonder, where are you now, Alex, Brandy, Cathy (Incest Taboo 1,) Michael and Lynn (4), Barbara and Jason (5), Tom and Marie (6), Dre and Jessica (9), Tabitha and Brian (12), Gabe and Gretchen (13), Bobby and Jill (14), Rick and Tabitha (16) and the rest?

Anyone who has appeared in those videos or others that are presented as actual consanguinamory and can answer my questions (and anyone else for that matter), can contact me at fullmarriageequality at yahoo dot com or on Facebook.

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Posted in: brother-sister,cheating,coming out,consanguineous,father-daughter,incest,media,mother-son,polyamory,siblings,triads

GSA on Television Again?

Rachel McRady writes at wetpaint.com with some spoilers about season 3 of Revenge, a television show with which I am not familiar. It sounds like the plot may involve Genetic Sexual Attraction.

Credit: Instagram/ABC

There’s been plenty of buzz and spoilers surrounding Revenge Season 3, but we’re most excited to learn more about the relationship between Victoria Grayson and her first born son, Patrick Harper.

This indicates to me that he's her genetic son, not a stepson or adopted by her. However, fiction writers have been known to "chicken out" by making the new arrival an imposter, or it is eventually revealed that there was a mixup at birth and so this isn't the genetic child of the character. So I'll be interested to see what happens.

At first we weren't sure if Patrick would be a loving son or a secret enemy to Victoria, but new spoilers from TVLine and ET Online show that he will definitely be a mama’s boy.

When Revenge returns on September 29, we will have flashed forward five to six months in which Vicki and Pat have “spent a lot of time together building a relationship, on that almost seems inappropriate when we first see them,” actress Emily VanCamp tells TVLine. “She’s just so in love with her son. It’s very bizarre.” 

Yikes! Does this mean incest in the future for the Grayson family? It does seem like the logical next step considering all they’ve already done.

Unfortunately, these articles are usually written with a bias against consanguinamory. Words like "bizarre"  and "yikes" indicate this.

I'd very much like to see more fictional television address this topic with some basis on what really happens in life. There are adult sons who find their genetic mothers and they mutually experience GSA. Some of them have a sexual relationship. Some of those go on to be happy with each other in a continuing romantic/erotic relationship.

Do you watch this show? If you see this storyline unfold, please report back on it. Thanks.

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Posted in: consanguineous,GSA,incest,media,mother-son