Defense Lawyer Needed in Consenting Adults Case

Over at patch.com, Mark Langlois brings us an update on the prosecution in Connecticut of a genetic father and his adult daughter for the "crime" of having consensual sex. This is a case that appears to be a matte of Genetic Sexual Attraction.

George Sayers, who is out on a $750,000 bond, was denied a public defender Friday in Danbury Superior Court.

Can't someone from the ACLU get involved? I know this wasn't set up as a test case, but perhaps the ridiculous laws can be successfully challenged?

Judge Joseph Doherty told Sayers the next time he shows up in court he must appear with an attorney. The court date is scheduled for Jan. 25.

Judge Doherty, why not simply throw the case out? Don't you feel silly interfering in the consensual sex lives of other adults?

Hartford appeared at her hearing in Danbury Superior Court about an hour before Sayers.

Judge Doherty told the court he received two letters about Miss Hartford, one from Danbury Hospital and one from Western Connecticut Mental Health Network. He said the letters were complimentary to Hartford, and he said he wanted to say that for the record. He said she should continue to be compliant with what the programs ask her to do, and work on her issues.

Looks like her biggest issue is that strangers are trying to control what she does with her own sexuality.

Stop prosecuting adults for consensual sex! Stop tearing families apart due to your own personal prejudices! There's no good reason for this prosecution.

Read more »

Posted in: breaking up homes,Connecticut,consanguineous,courts,father-daughter,GSA,incest,love,prosecution

Defense Lawyer Needed in Consenting Adults Case

Over at patch.com, Mark Langlois brings us an update on the prosecution in Connecticut of a genetic father and his adult daughter for the "crime" of having consensual sex. This is a case that appears to be a matte of Genetic Sexual Attraction.

George Sayers, who is out on a $750,000 bond, was denied a public defender Friday in Danbury Superior Court.

Can't someone from the ACLU get involved? I know this wasn't set up as a test case, but perhaps the ridiculous laws can be successfully challenged?

Judge Joseph Doherty told Sayers the next time he shows up in court he must appear with an attorney. The court date is scheduled for Jan. 25.

Judge Doherty, why not simply throw the case out? Don't you feel silly interfering in the consensual sex lives of other adults?

Hartford appeared at her hearing in Danbury Superior Court about an hour before Sayers.

Judge Doherty told the court he received two letters about Miss Hartford, one from Danbury Hospital and one from Western Connecticut Mental Health Network. He said the letters were complimentary to Hartford, and he said he wanted to say that for the record. He said she should continue to be compliant with what the programs ask her to do, and work on her issues.

Looks like her biggest issue is that strangers are trying to control what she does with her own sexuality.

Stop prosecuting adults for consensual sex! Stop tearing families apart due to your own personal prejudices! There's no good reason for this prosecution.

Read more »

Posted in: breaking up homes,Connecticut,consanguineous,courts,father-daughter,GSA,incest,love,prosecution

More Indication Connecticut Case Involves GSA and Jealousy

People are fascinated by aspects of the criminal case involving a father and his adult genetic daughter who had consensual sex. (It also helps generate interest that videos of the daughter with an ex-girlfriend were made and being sold.) Some people are drawn to the news becauses they like pronouncing judgment on the lives of other people who are in no way hurting them, or they want to bash the man and insist adult women don't actually enjoy sex with an older man and thus had to be coerced into such a relationship. Others are secretly curious, or even envious. Still others want to know about such criminal cases because they agree that prosecuting adults for consensual sex is a waste of law enforcement reasources and oppressive. News sources like to run news like this because it gets so much interest and generates so much talk, and when the Associated Press runs a story, then it is very easy for news outlets to carry it.

At kctv5.com we learn a little bit more about the rat snitch in this case.

The unidentified woman, who was of legal age, said she was introduced to Sayers as her "husband/father."

According to the police affidavit, even though she knew the sexual encounters were being filmed, she was upset that Sayers was selling the videos for $40 and pictures for $5 without her knowing. Her cousins, who live next door, were allegedly helping to distribute these pornographic videos and photos.

So the rat's cousins were involved in tbe business dispute?



We also get more explanation of the charges...

In Connecticut, incest is treated as sexual assault. Both the child and the parent can be charged if they engage in sexual intercourse with another person they know is related to him or her.

It might be hard to prove they knew they were related. A good defense could hinge on that. However, I'd very much like to see this law against a victimless "crime" be challenged. Think about it. It would be perfecly legal for them to have sex during a group sex session with each other, or one on one after meetng in a bar, just as long as they were unaware they were related. It's a stupid law. They should be freed, the charges should be dropped, and their child should returned to them.

Bethel residents were surprised to learn about the case of incest in their town.

They are very naive if this really surprised them. I guarantee they know other people involved in consensual incest. They just don't know it.

"I have two kids myself, so that's very unsettling," said Rebecca Chamberlain of Bethel.

What does that have to do with anything?

The initial news isn't enough, so some news outlets try to extend the news by doing secondary, related stories. Too bad they don't do any showing the absurdity of having laws against consanguinamory. At wfsb.com there's a strory with the headline "Doctors say adults who commit incest were often abused as children."...


Many people who vist doctors were abused as children, too. Many people who practice medicine were abused as children. So what? Abuse and consensual sex are two very different things.

The case of a Bethel father accused of having a sexual relationship with his daughter continues to shock those who are learning about it.

And what may come as a surprise is that sex between relatives may not be as uncommon as people may think.

That's what I said.

Sex between relatives is hard for many to even think about, but it's something that Dr. Les Lothstein, who is a clinical psychologist who counsels patients with sexual problems, has spent years listening to. 

"It's very rare that someone who has a good mental state and functions in the community does not know what they're doing is wrong, of course they know what they're doing is wrong," Lothstein said.

So if someone is happy with their sex life, they aren't going to be seeking the help of Dr. Lothstein. That includes those having consanguineous sex. Lothstein is not quoted in the article explaining what is wrong with consensual sex between adults.

Many studies have been done on sexual deviation and 95 percent of all child sex cases involve a parent or a relative with very few cases are a complete stranger, Lothstein said. And 65 percent of all sexual child abuse take place between siblings.

Abusing minors is not "sexual deviation." It is abuse. And complete strangers usually don't have private access to children. Geez, people, use some critical thinking skills.

Lothstein said adults who engage in sex with their children are most often victims themselves.

Is he talking about abusing minors, or consensual sex? Because this is a case about consensual sex, which is why the daughter was charged as well. Lothstein then goes on to bash adult media.

And what a surprise, Tiffany's mother (you know, the one Sayers said was abusing Tiffany and was having sex with Sayers and his brother at the same time) is in the the news, including the obligatory appearance at dailymail.co.uk by Rachel Quigley...

The mother of a woman who allegedly had a child with her father claims she tried to tell authorities about the incestuous relationship more than five years ago but was ignored.


Vikki McConvey, from Bethel, Connecticut, said she went to police in January 2007 after she suspected there was more to her daughter Tiffany Hartford's relationship with George L. Sayers, 46, than just father and daughter.

But she said police told her that because Tiffany was over 18 at the time, nothing could be done about it.

It was OK for Vikki McConvey to have sex with Sayers, but not another grown woman? She should have minded her own business. She's sounding jealous or envious. The initial response by the police should have been the one they stuck with.

Ms McConvey said she moved back to Connecticut in 2006 so Tiffany could be near to her father who she hadn't seen since she was three years old. She broke up with Sayers in 1991.

This sounds a lot like Genetic Sexual Attraction. He did not raise her. Their attraction to each other was a normal reaction to the circumstances.

She wanted to list her as a runaway after Sayers took his daughter to Florida but again police said because she was 18 there was nothing they could do. 

'I said to them, "Even if she was having relations with her father?"' It was something McConvey suspected 'because they insisted on sharing the same bed.'

So her daughter is 18 and she's still trying to control her. And notice that even she said they insisted on sharing the same bed, not he.

She also revealed to The News Times that Tiffany was abused for years by another person who was later prosecuted for the crime.

'That is why she turned out the way she is,' Ms McConvey said of the 23-year-old.

What way is that? A mother who is happily together with the father of her child? So far, I haven't heard that Tiffany was out robbing banks or beating people up or abusing anyone. It is terrible that Tiffany was abused in the past. It is also bad that she's now being abused because of unjust laws. She didn't have the power to to say "no" to her abuser, and now when she has the power to say "yes" and "no" that power is being taken away from her by bigotry.

Although she hadn't seen her daughter for several months before her arrest, McConvey said she instinctively knew something was wrong.

'It was just the way that they were always together. Like they both put on their Facebook pages that they were married but didn't mention who their spouses were,' she said.

'I didn't know what to think. I'd hope that it was just a father-and-daughter thing and nothing else.

'I tried to talk to Tiffany into coming home with me. She wouldn't. She wanted to get to know her father more, she told me.'

Sounds like she was in love. How awful that anyone would try to deny her that.

The plot thickens even more in this article at sfgate.com by Libor Jany and John Pirro...

McConvey acknowledged that, after a failed marriage, she was also hoping to rekindle her relationship with Sayers, whom she left in 1991.

But, she said, that hope fizzled quickly.

But if she couldn't have him, nobody was going to have him. Right? She sure showed him.

"I was going to give him a chance and hoped that he had bettered himself, but that was not the case," McConvey said.

By taking Sayers' daughter away from him, and then bringing her back so much later, McConvey created a situation that causes Genetic Sexual Attraction.

There is no good reason to prosecute George Sayers and Tiffany Hartford.

Read more »

Posted in: breaking up homes,Connecticut,consanguineous,family reaction,father-daughter,GSA,incest,lack of equality harms,love,media,myths,prejudice,reunion

More Indication Connecticut Case Involves GSA and Jealousy

People are fascinated by aspects of the criminal case involving a father and his adult genetic daughter who had consensual sex. (It also helps generate interest that videos of the daughter with an ex-girlfriend were made and being sold.) Some people are drawn to the news becauses they like pronouncing judgment on the lives of other people who are in no way hurting them, or they want to bash the man and insist adult women don't actually enjoy sex with an older man and thus had to be coerced into such a relationship. Others are secretly curious, or even envious. Still others want to know about such criminal cases because they agree that prosecuting adults for consensual sex is a waste of law enforcement reasources and oppressive. News sources like to run news like this because it gets so much interest and generates so much talk, and when the Associated Press runs a story, then it is very easy for news outlets to carry it.

At kctv5.com we learn a little bit more about the rat snitch in this case.

The unidentified woman, who was of legal age, said she was introduced to Sayers as her "husband/father."

According to the police affidavit, even though she knew the sexual encounters were being filmed, she was upset that Sayers was selling the videos for $40 and pictures for $5 without her knowing. Her cousins, who live next door, were allegedly helping to distribute these pornographic videos and photos.

So the rat's cousins were involved in tbe business dispute?



We also get more explanation of the charges...

In Connecticut, incest is treated as sexual assault. Both the child and the parent can be charged if they engage in sexual intercourse with another person they know is related to him or her.

It might be hard to prove they knew they were related. A good defense could hinge on that. However, I'd very much like to see this law against a victimless "crime" be challenged. Think about it. It would be perfecly legal for them to have sex during a group sex session with each other, or one on one after meetng in a bar, just as long as they were unaware they were related. It's a stupid law. They should be freed, the charges should be dropped, and their child should returned to them.

Bethel residents were surprised to learn about the case of incest in their town.

They are very naive if this really surprised them. I guarantee they know other people involved in consensual incest. They just don't know it.

"I have two kids myself, so that's very unsettling," said Rebecca Chamberlain of Bethel.

What does that have to do with anything?

The initial news isn't enough, so some news outlets try to extend the news by doing secondary, related stories. Too bad they don't do any showing the absurdity of having laws against consanguinamory. At wfsb.com there's a strory with the headline "Doctors say adults who commit incest were often abused as children."...


Many people who vist doctors were abused as children, too. Many people who practice medicine were abused as children. So what? Abuse and consensual sex are two very different things.

The case of a Bethel father accused of having a sexual relationship with his daughter continues to shock those who are learning about it.

And what may come as a surprise is that sex between relatives may not be as uncommon as people may think.

That's what I said.

Sex between relatives is hard for many to even think about, but it's something that Dr. Les Lothstein, who is a clinical psychologist who counsels patients with sexual problems, has spent years listening to. 

"It's very rare that someone who has a good mental state and functions in the community does not know what they're doing is wrong, of course they know what they're doing is wrong," Lothstein said.

So if someone is happy with their sex life, they aren't going to be seeking the help of Dr. Lothstein. That includes those having consanguineous sex. Lothstein is not quoted in the article explaining what is wrong with consensual sex between adults.

Many studies have been done on sexual deviation and 95 percent of all child sex cases involve a parent or a relative with very few cases are a complete stranger, Lothstein said. And 65 percent of all sexual child abuse take place between siblings.

Abusing minors is not "sexual deviation." It is abuse. And complete strangers usually don't have private access to children. Geez, people, use some critical thinking skills.

Lothstein said adults who engage in sex with their children are most often victims themselves.

Is he talking about abusing minors, or consensual sex? Because this is a case about consensual sex, which is why the daughter was charged as well. Lothstein then goes on to bash adult media.

And what a surprise, Tiffany's mother (you know, the one Sayers said was abusing Tiffany and was having sex with Sayers and his brother at the same time) is in the the news, including the obligatory appearance at dailymail.co.uk by Rachel Quigley...

The mother of a woman who allegedly had a child with her father claims she tried to tell authorities about the incestuous relationship more than five years ago but was ignored.


Vikki McConvey, from Bethel, Connecticut, said she went to police in January 2007 after she suspected there was more to her daughter Tiffany Hartford's relationship with George L. Sayers, 46, than just father and daughter.

But she said police told her that because Tiffany was over 18 at the time, nothing could be done about it.

It was OK for Vikki McConvey to have sex with Sayers, but not another grown woman? She should have minded her own business. She's sounding jealous or envious. The initial response by the police should have been the one they stuck with.

Ms McConvey said she moved back to Connecticut in 2006 so Tiffany could be near to her father who she hadn't seen since she was three years old. She broke up with Sayers in 1991.

This sounds a lot like Genetic Sexual Attraction. He did not raise her. Their attraction to each other was a normal reaction to the circumstances.

She wanted to list her as a runaway after Sayers took his daughter to Florida but again police said because she was 18 there was nothing they could do. 

'I said to them, "Even if she was having relations with her father?"' It was something McConvey suspected 'because they insisted on sharing the same bed.'

So her daughter is 18 and she's still trying to control her. And notice that even she said they insisted on sharing the same bed, not he.

She also revealed to The News Times that Tiffany was abused for years by another person who was later prosecuted for the crime.

'That is why she turned out the way she is,' Ms McConvey said of the 23-year-old.

What way is that? A mother who is happily together with the father of her child? So far, I haven't heard that Tiffany was out robbing banks or beating people up or abusing anyone. It is terrible that Tiffany was abused in the past. It is also bad that she's now being abused because of unjust laws. She didn't have the power to to say "no" to her abuser, and now when she has the power to say "yes" and "no" that power is being taken away from her by bigotry.

Although she hadn't seen her daughter for several months before her arrest, McConvey said she instinctively knew something was wrong.

'It was just the way that they were always together. Like they both put on their Facebook pages that they were married but didn't mention who their spouses were,' she said.

'I didn't know what to think. I'd hope that it was just a father-and-daughter thing and nothing else.

'I tried to talk to Tiffany into coming home with me. She wouldn't. She wanted to get to know her father more, she told me.'

Sounds like she was in love. How awful that anyone would try to deny her that.

The plot thickens even more in this article at sfgate.com by Libor Jany and John Pirro...

McConvey acknowledged that, after a failed marriage, she was also hoping to rekindle her relationship with Sayers, whom she left in 1991.

But, she said, that hope fizzled quickly.

But if she couldn't have him, nobody was going to have him. Right? She sure showed him.

"I was going to give him a chance and hoped that he had bettered himself, but that was not the case," McConvey said.

By taking Sayers' daughter away from him, and then bringing her back so much later, McConvey created a situation that causes Genetic Sexual Attraction.

There is no good reason to prosecute George Sayers and Tiffany Hartford.

Read more »

Posted in: breaking up homes,Connecticut,consanguineous,family reaction,father-daughter,GSA,incest,lack of equality harms,love,media,myths,prejudice,reunion

Is the Connecticut Father-Daughter Case GSA?

Is the Connecticut criminal case, which I previously blogged about here, a case of Genetic Sexual Attraction? More details are in this report at courant.com by David Owens.

George L. Sayers Jr., Tiffany L. Hartford face sexual assault charges (Bethel Police Department / December 5, 2012)

One relative, when asked about the relationship between Sayers and Hartford, told detectives: "Tiffany is his girlfriend, but we also think that she is his daughter," the warrants say.

Doesn't sound like the relative was concerned, and thus might not have been aware that the statement was implicating George and Tiffany in a what is still, stupidly, a crime in the state. Next time, read this.

A short time later, police confronted Hartford and Sayers with the same question, and Hartford said Sayers was her boyfriend, the warrants say. When an officer asked if he was her father, she responded that she did not know.

When police asked Sayers his relationship to Hartford, he said she was a "friend," but added that he had been told she might also be his daughter, though he didn't believe it, according to the warrants. When asked if a paternity test might show he was the father of both Hartford and their child, Sayers said there was a possibility, the warrants say.

A short time later, as Sayers was questioned further, according to the warrants, he told officers that any number of men, including him, could have been her father. He also told police that Hartford's mother allowed her to be sexually abused and that's why Hartford moved to his home in Bethel, the warrants say.

That's a lot of additional information. Not that it matters to law enforcement, but it would help determine if this is a case of Genetic Sexual Attraction instead of Familial Sexual Attraction if he had little contact with her from a young age until after she went through puberty. Also, regarding the alleged abuse in her mother's home... that can often prompt people to act out, but again, it isn't illegal if a stranger "takes advantage of it." On the flip side, if she found living with George to be pleasant and found George to be someone who was giving her the love she was previously denied, and finally had a happy life, how cruel is it to take that away from her?

Police then asked Sayers why Hartford would move in with him if they were not related, and he responded that Hartford's mother knew his mother, the warrants say. Pressed further on Hartford's paternity, Sayers said no one "legally" proved to him Hartford was his daughter, and he also suggested that the father was his deceased brother.

In either case, police said, the situation would violate the third-degree sexual assault statute that bans related people from having sexual intercourse.

That's a stupid law that needs to be abolished.

Questioned later about the video, Hartford acknowledged that before she became pregnant she aspired to be a porn star, according to the warrants. During their search, police recovered a CD labeled "Tiffany Love" that featured two minutes of pornographic images of Hartford shot within the Sayers house, the warrants say.

Of course they tacked on additional, bogus charges...

The obscenity charges relate to the allegation that Sayers and Hartford made the video of Hartford and her former girlfriend having sex available for sale.

Uh, have these law enforcement people ever be on the World Wide Web?

Sayers and Hartford are both in custody. He was held on $100,000 bail and Hartford on $25,000. Both are due back in court Dec. 21. The state Department of Children and Families is overseeing care of their child.

WHY? Drop the charges, let them out, and let them raise their child! They aren't a danger to anybody, at least not based on the information provided. What century is this again? What are they going to do, burn the lovers at the stake?

In response to a string of ignorant, bigoted comments after the article, I wrote this...


Wow, look at all of the people ridiculing and condemning CONSENTING ADULTS for having sex with each other. I wonder what everyone else would think of YOUR sex lives, if any of you bigots have one. It would be perfectly legal for her to have group sex with a group of strangers, all of them old men, but she is arrested for this? CONSENTING ADULTS. Are we going to take that concept seriously or not? Their problem was not being in a state like Rhode Island, which has no stupid laws against relationships like theirs. This was a business dispute that should have been settled in small claims court at worst. It should NOT be a criminal case. And obscenity? Please. Bogus charge that is being selectively applied. Most of the law enforcement personnel involved have probably watched two young women in home-made videos.

There is no rational reason for keeping laws or taboos against consensual incest that is consistently applied to other relationships. Personal disgust or religion is only a reason why one person would not want to personally engage in what I call consanguinamory, not why someone else shouldn't do it. An adult should be free to share love, sex, residence, and marriage with ANY consenting adults. It isn't for everyone, but we're not all going to want to have each others' love lives, now are we? If someone thinks YOUR love life is disgusting, should you be thrown in prison?

Some people try to justify their prejudice against consanguineous sex and marriage by being part-time eugenicists and saying that such relationships inevitably lead to “mutant” or “deformed” babies. There's no report that anything is wrong with their child. Of course NOW the poor child will have a broken family thanks to people who still think it is a good idea to stick their noses in the sex lives of others. But MOST children born to close relatives are healthy anyway, and if that was really a justification against consensual sex, then we'd ban people with serious diseases like Huntington's from having children. But this is really about the disgust of other people, nothing more. Well lots of people are disgusted by lots of relationships that are perfectly legal. This relationship shouldn't be illegal, either.

Don't start in with "It's just wrong." That's not a rational reason to deny other people their relationship rights.

Don't start in with "there's a power imbalance." It would be perfectly legal for her to have sex with President. Who has more power than that?

Some will say “There are so many people outside of your family." There are plenty of people within one’s own race, too, but that is no reason to ban interracial marriage. So, this isn't a good reason either.

Face it, there's no good reason they should have been arrested. Wag your fingers at them all you want, but I doubt you can give a good reason why they shouldn't love each other as they see fit.

Read more »

Posted in: boundaries,breaking up homes,children,Connecticut,consanguineous,family reaction,father-daughter,GSA,incest,lack of equality harms,law,love,prosecution

Is the Connecticut Father-Daughter Case GSA?

Is the Connecticut criminal case, which I previously blogged about here, a case of Genetic Sexual Attraction? More details are in this report at courant.com by David Owens.

George L. Sayers Jr., Tiffany L. Hartford face sexual assault charges (Bethel Police Department / December 5, 2012)

One relative, when asked about the relationship between Sayers and Hartford, told detectives: "Tiffany is his girlfriend, but we also think that she is his daughter," the warrants say.

Doesn't sound like the relative was concerned, and thus might not have been aware that the statement was implicating George and Tiffany in a what is still, stupidly, a crime in the state. Next time, read this.

A short time later, police confronted Hartford and Sayers with the same question, and Hartford said Sayers was her boyfriend, the warrants say. When an officer asked if he was her father, she responded that she did not know.

When police asked Sayers his relationship to Hartford, he said she was a "friend," but added that he had been told she might also be his daughter, though he didn't believe it, according to the warrants. When asked if a paternity test might show he was the father of both Hartford and their child, Sayers said there was a possibility, the warrants say.

A short time later, as Sayers was questioned further, according to the warrants, he told officers that any number of men, including him, could have been her father. He also told police that Hartford's mother allowed her to be sexually abused and that's why Hartford moved to his home in Bethel, the warrants say.

That's a lot of additional information. Not that it matters to law enforcement, but it would help determine if this is a case of Genetic Sexual Attraction instead of Familial Sexual Attraction if he had little contact with her from a young age until after she went through puberty. Also, regarding the alleged abuse in her mother's home... that can often prompt people to act out, but again, it isn't illegal if a stranger "takes advantage of it." On the flip side, if she found living with George to be pleasant and found George to be someone who was giving her the love she was previously denied, and finally had a happy life, how cruel is it to take that away from her?

Police then asked Sayers why Hartford would move in with him if they were not related, and he responded that Hartford's mother knew his mother, the warrants say. Pressed further on Hartford's paternity, Sayers said no one "legally" proved to him Hartford was his daughter, and he also suggested that the father was his deceased brother.

In either case, police said, the situation would violate the third-degree sexual assault statute that bans related people from having sexual intercourse.

That's a stupid law that needs to be abolished.

Questioned later about the video, Hartford acknowledged that before she became pregnant she aspired to be a porn star, according to the warrants. During their search, police recovered a CD labeled "Tiffany Love" that featured two minutes of pornographic images of Hartford shot within the Sayers house, the warrants say.

Of course they tacked on additional, bogus charges...

The obscenity charges relate to the allegation that Sayers and Hartford made the video of Hartford and her former girlfriend having sex available for sale.

Uh, have these law enforcement people ever be on the World Wide Web?

Sayers and Hartford are both in custody. He was held on $100,000 bail and Hartford on $25,000. Both are due back in court Dec. 21. The state Department of Children and Families is overseeing care of their child.

WHY? Drop the charges, let them out, and let them raise their child! They aren't a danger to anybody, at least not based on the information provided. What century is this again? What are they going to do, burn the lovers at the stake?

In response to a string of ignorant, bigoted comments after the article, I wrote this...


Wow, look at all of the people ridiculing and condemning CONSENTING ADULTS for having sex with each other. I wonder what everyone else would think of YOUR sex lives, if any of you bigots have one. It would be perfectly legal for her to have group sex with a group of strangers, all of them old men, but she is arrested for this? CONSENTING ADULTS. Are we going to take that concept seriously or not? Their problem was not being in a state like Rhode Island, which has no stupid laws against relationships like theirs. This was a business dispute that should have been settled in small claims court at worst. It should NOT be a criminal case. And obscenity? Please. Bogus charge that is being selectively applied. Most of the law enforcement personnel involved have probably watched two young women in home-made videos.

There is no rational reason for keeping laws or taboos against consensual incest that is consistently applied to other relationships. Personal disgust or religion is only a reason why one person would not want to personally engage in what I call consanguinamory, not why someone else shouldn't do it. An adult should be free to share love, sex, residence, and marriage with ANY consenting adults. It isn't for everyone, but we're not all going to want to have each others' love lives, now are we? If someone thinks YOUR love life is disgusting, should you be thrown in prison?

Some people try to justify their prejudice against consanguineous sex and marriage by being part-time eugenicists and saying that such relationships inevitably lead to “mutant” or “deformed” babies. There's no report that anything is wrong with their child. Of course NOW the poor child will have a broken family thanks to people who still think it is a good idea to stick their noses in the sex lives of others. But MOST children born to close relatives are healthy anyway, and if that was really a justification against consensual sex, then we'd ban people with serious diseases like Huntington's from having children. But this is really about the disgust of other people, nothing more. Well lots of people are disgusted by lots of relationships that are perfectly legal. This relationship shouldn't be illegal, either.

Don't start in with "It's just wrong." That's not a rational reason to deny other people their relationship rights.

Don't start in with "there's a power imbalance." It would be perfectly legal for her to have sex with President. Who has more power than that?

Some will say “There are so many people outside of your family." There are plenty of people within one’s own race, too, but that is no reason to ban interracial marriage. So, this isn't a good reason either.

Face it, there's no good reason they should have been arrested. Wag your fingers at them all you want, but I doubt you can give a good reason why they shouldn't love each other as they see fit.

Read more »

Posted in: boundaries,breaking up homes,children,Connecticut,consanguineous,family reaction,father-daughter,GSA,incest,lack of equality harms,law,love,prosecution

Connecticut Still Prosecuting Consenting Adults

Once again, law enforcement resources are being wasted to prosecute consenting adults for loving each other. This time, it stems from a case that should be a dispute settled in a civil lawsuit, not something that should be a matter for the criminal courts. John Pirro reported at newstimes.com...

A woman described as an aspiring pornography star and her father were arrested after a complaint from the woman's former girlfriend led to the discovery that the father and daughter were having a sexual relationship, Bethel police said.

So what???

George Sayers Jr., 46, and Tiffany Hartford, 23, of Nashville Road, were charged with third-degree sexual assault after DNA tests proved they were father and daughter and the parents of a child, according to an arrest warrant affidavit made public Tuesday in state Superior Court in Danbury.

Who was assaulted? They are CONSENTING ADULTS. Does Hartford not have reproductive rights? On what grounds did law enforcement conduct a DNA test on a child???

They were also charged with obscenity and conspiracy to commit obscenity for allegedly distributing photos and videos of Hartford and the former girlfriend having sex. Both pleaded not guilty to all charges during their court appearances.

What is obscene about sex?

Police said the investigation began in February after the former girlfriend told them Sayers was selling the images, which he made with her consent when she and Hartford were dating several years earlier.

Here's what I thought was the rub...

The woman, who was 16 or 17 at the time, said Hartford had introduced Sayers as her "husband/father."

Like many other states, the age of consent in Connecticut is 16 with convoluted limitations, which means that a 12-year-old can consent to group sex with three strangers who are 13, and a 16-year-old can consent to sex with three 40-year-old strangers, but NOT to sex with some adult who is a guardian or supervisor, and of course there are the anti-incest laws. That a 16-year-old can consent to sex and even get married does not make it legal, generally, for the sex to be filmed. Do you follow all of that?!?

But let's get back to the rat...

Even though she knew the encounters were being filmed, the woman was upset because he was selling the videos for $40 and the photos for $5 each without her approval, police said.

So this is basically a business complaint.

The images aren't considered to be child pornography because the woman was over the age of 16 when they were made, and the case doesn't fall under the state's voyeurism statute because she consented to having them taken, police said.

I'm not sure the federal authorities would agree with that, but whatever. It just makes it more ridiculous to tie up law enforcement with this matter.

In separate interviews, both Sayers and Hartford initially denied knowing they were father and daughter, although Sayers said at one point he believed that Hartford was the daughter of his deceased brother, police said.

They were arrested by police Monday after a DNA test proved that Sayers was not only Hartford's father, but also the father of her child, according to court documents.

Again, this is basically a business complaint, but it looks like they're going to get charged under some ridiculous sex-negative incest law. Too bad they didn't live in Rhode Island or New Jersey. There's no victim in the sex. Note that the article does not mention their child having any problems, which likely means that the child is healthy, as most children born to close relatives are. Not only should they not be criminally prosecuted (let the rat sue them in civil court for her share of the money), they should be free to marry, if they want to, and raise their child.

I'd really like the name of the rat. We have the names AND pictures of the defendants, after all.

Boston.com picked up the story and says they were arrested on "incest allegations."

The folks at dailymail.co.uk, which loves stories like this, is publishing multiple pictures along with a report by Rachel Quigley that simply reprints the original story.

Arrested: George Sayers, right, and his daughter Tiffany Hartford, 23, were charged on Monday with third-degree sexual assault after police discovered they had a child together

Ooooh, scary, right? Isn't it ridiculous to tear this family apart and jail these people? Don't want to do what they are doing? Then don't. But let other adults have the relationships they want.

Read more »

Posted in: breaking up homes,children,Connecticut,consanguineous,courts,father-daughter,incest,lack of equality harms,law,love,media,prosecution,same-sex

Connecticut Still Prosecuting Consenting Adults

Once again, law enforcement resources are being wasted to prosecute consenting adults for loving each other. This time, it stems from a case that should be a dispute settled in a civil lawsuit, not something that should be a matter for the criminal courts. John Pirro reported at newstimes.com...

A woman described as an aspiring pornography star and her father were arrested after a complaint from the woman's former girlfriend led to the discovery that the father and daughter were having a sexual relationship, Bethel police said.

So what???

George Sayers Jr., 46, and Tiffany Hartford, 23, of Nashville Road, were charged with third-degree sexual assault after DNA tests proved they were father and daughter and the parents of a child, according to an arrest warrant affidavit made public Tuesday in state Superior Court in Danbury.

Who was assaulted? They are CONSENTING ADULTS. Does Hartford not have reproductive rights? On what grounds did law enforcement conduct a DNA test on a child???

They were also charged with obscenity and conspiracy to commit obscenity for allegedly distributing photos and videos of Hartford and the former girlfriend having sex. Both pleaded not guilty to all charges during their court appearances.

What is obscene about sex?

Police said the investigation began in February after the former girlfriend told them Sayers was selling the images, which he made with her consent when she and Hartford were dating several years earlier.

Here's what I thought was the rub...

The woman, who was 16 or 17 at the time, said Hartford had introduced Sayers as her "husband/father."

Like many other states, the age of consent in Connecticut is 16 with convoluted limitations, which means that a 12-year-old can consent to group sex with three strangers who are 13, and a 16-year-old can consent to sex with three 40-year-old strangers, but NOT to sex with some adult who is a guardian or supervisor, and of course there are the anti-incest laws. That a 16-year-old can consent to sex and even get married does not make it legal, generally, for the sex to be filmed. Do you follow all of that?!?

But let's get back to the rat...

Even though she knew the encounters were being filmed, the woman was upset because he was selling the videos for $40 and the photos for $5 each without her approval, police said.

So this is basically a business complaint.

The images aren't considered to be child pornography because the woman was over the age of 16 when they were made, and the case doesn't fall under the state's voyeurism statute because she consented to having them taken, police said.

I'm not sure the federal authorities would agree with that, but whatever. It just makes it more ridiculous to tie up law enforcement with this matter.

In separate interviews, both Sayers and Hartford initially denied knowing they were father and daughter, although Sayers said at one point he believed that Hartford was the daughter of his deceased brother, police said.

They were arrested by police Monday after a DNA test proved that Sayers was not only Hartford's father, but also the father of her child, according to court documents.

Again, this is basically a business complaint, but it looks like they're going to get charged under some ridiculous sex-negative incest law. Too bad they didn't live in Rhode Island or New Jersey. There's no victim in the sex. Note that the article does not mention their child having any problems, which likely means that the child is healthy, as most children born to close relatives are. Not only should they not be criminally prosecuted (let the rat sue them in civil court for her share of the money), they should be free to marry, if they want to, and raise their child.

I'd really like the name of the rat. We have the names AND pictures of the defendants, after all.

Boston.com picked up the story and says they were arrested on "incest allegations."

The folks at dailymail.co.uk, which loves stories like this, is publishing multiple pictures along with a report by Rachel Quigley that simply reprints the original story.

Arrested: George Sayers, right, and his daughter Tiffany Hartford, 23, were charged on Monday with third-degree sexual assault after police discovered they had a child together

Ooooh, scary, right? Isn't it ridiculous to tear this family apart and jail these people? Don't want to do what they are doing? Then don't. But let other adults have the relationships they want.

Read more »

Posted in: breaking up homes,children,Connecticut,consanguineous,courts,father-daughter,incest,lack of equality harms,law,love,media,prosecution,same-sex

Medical Marijuana: The Feds Strike Back

Even as Connecticut became the 17th state to legalize marijuana for medicinal purposes last week, the DEA continues to bring the heat on some of the more visible pot crusaders across the country.  The latest to be busted is Richard Lee of Oaksterdam University fame in Oakland, California.

Despite assurances from the U.S. Department of Justice early in the Obama administration that enforcement of the federal Controlled Substances Act would not be a law-enforcement priority, in April the DEA capped a mounting campaign to arrest dispensary owners across California, Colorado, and Montana.  Many dispensary owners claim to have received letters from the DEA threatening criminal prosecution if the businesses do not cease and desist.

What has changed since the Ogden memo of October 2009, when Obama's DOJ signaled it would leave marijuana enforcement to the states?

One explanation is that when it came to dispensing marijuana, medicinally or otherwise, some folks started to make money; big money.  This led to the DOJ's so-called Cole memo last spring, which sought to "clarify" the previous memorandum, and which provided a mandate to U.S. Attorneys to vigorously prosecute marijuana distributors and to "follow-the-money".

Strong voices in the pot lobby are crying foul, suggesting that operators within the DOJ [particularly in California and Colorado] are acting on their own, ignoring the official White House script on this issue.  For their part, some of the medical marijuana states are seeking an end to this chaos; bi-partisan legislators from five of those states signed an open letter to President Obama requesting that the DEA not interfere with their respective medical marijuana laws.

Well folks, because this is a presidential election year, don't look for the Chief to weigh in decisively on this one anytime soon.  For a glimpse into the mind of the voting public, you can peruse the 100+ comments to an article in the Economist on this subject.  Some excellent points on both sides of the issue are made in the forum.

No wonder Mr. Lee is calling it quits out in California at Oaksterdam; he obviously doesn't want to do a dime in the federal penitentiary as all this gets sorted out.  We here at the Law Blogger will, of course, keep you posted; we've been tracking this issue since 2008.

www.clarkstonlegal.com

info@clarkstonlegal.com

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Posted in: California,Cole memo,Colorado,Connecticut,medical marijuana,Oaksterdam University,Ogden memo,President Obama,The Economist