An Example of the Benefit of Nonmonogamy in Nature

I am polyamorous, but not one of those polyamorists who say everyone else should be polyamorous, too. When I say I support the rights of consenting adults, that includes the freedom to be monogamous or celibate. And, as I always say, just because something is found in another species, it doesn't automatically apply to humans. With those things out of the way, I wanted to note Carl Zimmer's report at nytimes.com that flies forced into monogamy apparently lose learning ability.

Forcing male flies into monogamy has a startling effect: After a few dozen generations, the flies become worse at learning.

This discovery, published on Wednesday in the Proceedings of the Royal Society, isn’t a biological excuse for men who have strayed from their significant other. Instead, it’s a tantalizing clue about why intelligence evolved.

The new study was carried out by Brian Hollis and Tadeusz J. Kawecki, biologists at the University of Lausanne in Switzerland. They investigated a fly species called Drosophila melanogaster that normally has a very un-monogamous way of life.

I do think it causes all sorts of problems to try to force a polyamorous person into monogamy. Human history has shown that over and over again. Also, many polyamorous people will tell you that living out polyamory has made them better people and taught them much.

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Posted in: academia,human origins,lack of equality harms,monogamy,open,polyamory,polygamy,science

New Republic Insults Hundreds of Millions

Alice Robb wrote at "The Strange Scholarship of Incest" at newrepublic.com...

Whether or not Meryl Streep deserves to win Best Actress for her turn as the deranged matriarch in August: Osage County is up for debate, but everyone who’s seen Tracy Letts’s play or the film adaptation should be able to agree on at least one thing: It makes for some uncomfortable viewing. And of all the disturbing elements that make up this saga—alcoholism, suicide, adultery—there’s one plotline that stands out as truly disturbing: the incestuous romance between Ivy and Little Charles, who believe they’re first cousins but—spoiler alert—turn out to be half-siblings.

Why is that disturbing?

Disgust seems like a pretty appropriate response to an affair between cousins, but historically, in societies around the world, marriage between cousins has been accepted and even encouraged.

And yet she calls it disgusting anyway, insulting hundreds of millions of people, including her own ancestors. Then she gets into that big question...

Is the taboo against incest a biological universal, or is it culturally derived? And if it’s a cultural construct, why is it so widespread?

Ultimately, when it comes to whether or not consenting adults should have their rights, the answer to that question isn't relevant.

“I’m not saying that it’s fine, but I think the genetic risks of incest are probably overestimated,” said Diane Paul, a professor at the University of Massachusetts Boston whose research focuses on the history of evolution and genetics.

It certainly is.

“It’s assumed it would be higher, but there’s a huge bias of ascertainment,” she explains. “If you have a baby [that’s the product of incest] with a problem, people say, ‘Oh, that’s why,’ but if the baby is healthy, no one says, ‘Look at that healthy baby’ [that’s the product of incest].”

DING! We have a winner.

“In terms of genetic distance, a half-sibling relationship is equivalent to an uncle-niece relationship or a double first cousin relationship” [double first cousins share both sets of grandparents], both of which are quite common in different societies,” says Alan Bittles, a researcher at the Centre for Comparative Genomics at Murdoch University in Australia.

Double first cousins can legally marry in some US states.

The article then gets into Westermarck.

It is very simple... if YOU are disgusted by something, don't do it. But it is rude, cruel, and unjust to try to stop consenting adults in love from being together.

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Posted in: academia,brother-sister,children,consanguineous,cousins,family reaction,media,prejudice,science,siblings,stigma

Is Being Poly Genetic?

The Ferrett addresses, “Polyamory Genetic? Is Homosexuality Genetic?”

My thoughts on a genetic polyamory link are the exact same as my thoughts on a genetic homosexual link:

I don’t care.

Right! We have many things, including the technology I’m using to write this and you are using to read this, which are not part of our genetics. What difference does it make? See Discredited Argument #5.

Even if the gays were, as some suggest, all conspiring in one big plot to annoy us fine-thinking straight people, wincing as they sucked distasteful d--- and reluctantly chowed p---y out of some misplaced form of rebellion, it should still be allowed.

The truth is, gay sex is between consenting adults, and it hurts no one but those adults – there are way more deadly car accidents caused by beers than queers. You may consider gayness to be a bad choice, but two people should be free to make bad choices together. And what people want to do for fun in their private life is something that should be allowed, no matter how distasteful it may be to me.

Agreed. See Discredited Argument #1.

We often get caught up in the “nature vs. nurture” aspect of gay and transgender issues, forgetting that this is playing to the conservative bent. What’s important is that people all over the world should have the freedom to live their lives as they see fit assuming they’re not actively harming anyone, and as such Teh Gay Should Be Okay.

So is gay genetically disposed? I say probably, but it doesn’t make a damn bit of difference.

Getting to polyamory…

I’m sure there are tendencies genetically towards certain aspects that encourage polyamory, but polyamory is such a complex term, encompassing so many styles of relationships, that I don’t think a single set of genes could really cover it.

I think we have enough evidence that some people are not monogamous; it goes against their nature, whether being polyamorous can be found in their genes or not.

But it’s irrelevant. I’ve heard it said that after gay marriage gets settled, they’ll be coming after the polyamorous relationships next.

We can only hope. Actually, I’d like to see it all settled at the same time; full marriage equality.

Miranda commented…

For people questioning their identity, I can see how it would be helpful to know that this is what is natural for you. But do we have to use it to justify ourselves with the opposition? I’d rather not anyway.

Yes. It doesn’t matter if someone is turned off by something, or thinks it is harmful to the lovers. An adult should not need to get permission from some politician to be who she or he is and love the person(s) she or he does in the ways to which they mutually consent. An adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race, or religion, should be free to share love, sex, residence, and marriage with any and all consenting adults, without prosecution, persecution, and discrimination.



Is polyamory natural Is polyamory genetic Is being polyamorous natural Is being polyamorous genetic Is polygamy natural

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Posted in: allies,FAQ,freedom to marry,LGBT,polyamory,science,stigma

What Comes Naturally

Colleen Stufflebeem looks at the emotions that often result from the body’s physical reaction to sex. Early in her essay, she writes…

I’m not too cliché, but the idea of romance has always wooed me, though the necessity of love before sex never equated to waiting until marriage. In fact, I’ve always thought that’s a terrible idea.

Towards the end she writes…

But while this evidence proves that casual sex can cause heartbreak and mysterious genital burning, it also proves that humans are naturally inclined to fall in love and lust with multiple people. If we have the natural tendency to be polyamorous why impose unnatural sanctions against it?

First, I’d like to point out that any sex can cause heartbreak and mysterious genital burning. Aren’t many people heartbroken with the end of a serious relationship, in no small part because they were having sex? And a sexually transmitted infection can happen through sex, especially unprotected sex, with someone who is already infected, no matter how serious the relationship. Someone could have “casual” sex with a hundred people, and if none of them are infected, that person will not get infected.

But the other thing I wanted to get to was that, no, we should not impose unnatural sanctions against relationships. It is natural for a gay man to be attracted to, and love, other men. It is natural for a polyamorous person to love more than one person. This is why we should not use laws to reserve sex or marriage for only two people, or only heterosexuals couples.

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Posted in: love,polyamory,science

What Genealogists Know

With each previous generation you trace back, the maximum possible number of your genetic ancestors doubles. You can have 2 parents, up to 4 grandparents, up to 8 great-grandparents, up to 16 great-great-grandparents, etc.

On average, there are about four generations per century. For people born in the year 2000, their 8 great-great-grandparents were probably born around 1900. Sometime around 1800 their great-great-great-great-great-great-grandparents were born (there may be up to 128 of them). About 29 generations back, or roughly around the time of 1250-1300, the total number of your possible ancestors for that generation equals or exceeds the total population of the planet, which was about 500 million people.

What gives? Well, first of all, if all 500 million of those people were your ancestors, they would also be the ancestors of all of the rest of us, too.

Secondly, you probably don’t have every person alive back then as your ancestor. There wasn’t a lot of interracial or intercultural parenting going on back then. People were more isolated, more people lived in rural countrysides rather than dense urban areas, and people were not nearly as geographically or socially mobile as they are today. It was very common for a person to be born in and to die in the the same village or town, having lived all of her or his life there.

This means that for many, many, many, many generations, there was a lot of what most people would call today “inbreeding.” If your spouse wasn’t your first cousin, your spouse was likely a second or third cousin, or a second cousin-once removed, our even your double-cousin, etc. And as I’ve noted before, even if they weren’t marrying them, people were having children with siblings, aunts or uncles, etc. (Even if not having children together, what do you think went on, given that pubescent teens, like most children, were usually sharing a bedroom?) Not only did these things not destroy humanity, but in Europe, the Renaissance was birthed in these conditions.

Coming back to around 1800, very few people are likely to have 128 great-great-great-great-great-great-grandparents, just like very few of those people in 1800 had 128 of them in 1600. Because chances are, some of your recent ancestors were cousins, if not closer. If you marry your first cousin, you have no more than six genetic grandparents between you, instead of eight. If your parents are first cousins, you have six great-grandparents instead of eight.

If “inbreeding” was as detrimental as common misconception says, none of us would be here.

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Posted in: children,consanguineous,cousins,incest,myths,science,stigma

3D Printed Human Livers?

A fascinating item from Computer World:

Advances in the 3D printing of human tissue have moved fast enough that San Diego-based bio-printing company Organovo now expects to unveil the world's first printed organ -- a human liver -- next year. Like other forms of 3D printing, bio-printing lays down layer after layer of material -- in this case, live cells -- to form a solid physical entity -- in this case, human tissue. The major stumbling block in creating tissue continues to be manufacturing the vascular system needed to provide it with life-sustaining oxygen and nutrients. Living cells may literally die before the tissue gets off the printer table. Organovo, however, said it has overcome that vascular issue to a degree. "We have achieved thicknesses of greater than 500 microns, and have maintained liver tissue in a fully functional state with native phenotypic behavior for at least 40 days," said Mike Renard, Organovo's executive vice president of commercial operations.

(Tipped by JMG reader Ray)

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Posted in: medicine,science,technology

Researcher Resigns After Confessing To Faking AIDS Vaccine Results

An Iowa State University professor has resigned after confessing that he falsified blood samples to make it appear that an AIDS vaccine was working.

Dong-Pyou Han was an assistant professor of biomedical sciences. He resigned in October after admitting responsibility, an ISU spokesman said. The fraudulent results helped an ISU research team gain millions of dollars in federal money, according to James Bradac, who helps oversee AIDS vaccine grants for the National Institutes of Health. Bradac said in a phone interview Monday that Han apparently added human blood components to the rabbit blood to skew experiments' results. He said this was the worst case of research fraud he'd seen in his 24 years at the federal agency. The human blood came from people whose bodies had produced antibodies to HIV, the virus that causes AIDS, Bradac said. The presence of these antibodies in the rabbits' blood made it appear that the vaccine was spurring the animals to build defenses against HIV.

Researchers at other labs had become suspicious when they were unable to duplicate the results claimed by Iowa State. (Tipped by JMG reader Birdie)

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Posted in: AIDS,Iowa,medicine,science

Females Who Mate With Their Brothers and Fathers

Fruit flies... we're talking about fruit flies. Below is the news I found on my own, but first is this take on it by Alex B. Berezow at realclearscience.com, provided by a kind friend of FME. Don't be shy about calling my attention to anything relevant to this blog.

The article says "inbreeding" isn't all bad, despite popular notions...

If acted upon by natural selection, bad mutations can be wiped out more easily, thus speeding the rate of evolution. And for some reason, third- and fourth-cousins that marry each other in Iceland have more children.

But what about the fruit flies?

When given a choice between a brother or a non-brother, females preferred mating with their brother. But, males did not prefer their sister. They simply tolerated mating with their sister, picking them roughly half the time. Similarly, females showed no preference when choosing between their father or a non-father, picking their dad about 50% of the time. Males wooed their moms, but no successful mating occurred.

Interesting.

The authors conclude that inbreeding occurs in fruit flies because it may increase their inclusive fitness.

The  article's author makes bigoted comments to make it clear he is disgusted, or at least wants us to think he's disgusted.

Source: Loyau A, Cornuau JH, Clobert J, Danchin É (2012). "Incestuous Sisters: Mate Preference for Brothers over Unrelated Males in Drosophila melanogaster." PLoS ONE 7(12): e51293. doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0051293

I am compelled to point out that consaguinamory and consanguineous sex or marriage do not necessarily mean inbreeding, and most children born to close relatives are healthy. And, as I often mention, what happens with other species, especially ones as different as fruit flies, doesn't necessarily apply to humans. But it is fun to have information like this handy when someone tries to tell you that consanguinamory is unnatural. Funny thing, is, none of these people who say this go a single day of their lives without unnatural things.

Here's the journal piece I had already found on this...

We investigated male and female mate preferences with respect to relatedness in the fruit fly D. melanogaster. Experiments offered the choice between a first order relative (full-sibling or parent) and an unrelated individual with the same age and mating history. We found that females significantly preferred mating with their brothers, thus supporting inbreeding preference. Moreover, females did not avoid mating with their fathers, and males did not avoid mating with their sisters, thus supporting inbreeding tolerance. Our experiments therefore add empirical evidence for inbreeding preference, which strengthens the prediction that inbreeding tolerance and preference can evolve under specific circumstances through the positive effects on inclusive fitness.

The information is extensive, complete with many references. It is good reading for those of you who enjoy scientific journals.

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Posted in: brother-sister,consanguineous,father-daughter,incest,mother-son,pregnancy,science,siblings

Gonna Need a Bigger House on the Prarie

A scientific study says polyandry pays off for female prarie dogs. As always, I note that what happens in other species isn't always applicable to humans, but this is another example refuting the claim that polyandry is "not natural." In this case, polyandry has increased the likelihood that a female will have more surviving offspring. I found this report at phys.org.

Credit: Elaine Miller Bond (elainemillerbond.com)

Mating with more than one male increases reproductive success for female prairie dogs, despite an increase in risks. This is according to a new study published in The Journal of Mammalogy by behavioral ecologist John Hoogland, Professor at the University of Maryland Center for Environmental Science's Appalachian Laboratory.

Mating entails significant costs such as increased susceptibility to predation and increased exposure to diseases and parasites. So why would a female prairie dog take the risk to mate with multiple males? The answer is simple and clear: female prairie dogs that mate with two or more males rear more offspring than those that mate with only one.

So, if you're a woman looking to have a lot of offspring, polyandry might be a strategy.

Prairie dogs are herbivorous rodents of the squirrel family, and forage aboveground from dawn until dusk. They live in colonies of territorial, contiguous family groups that contain one or two sexually mature adult males, three or four sexually mature adult females, and one or two sexually immature yearling males.

Know any families like that?

More information: "Why do female prairie dogs copulate with more than one male? Insights from long-term research" was published in the September issue of The Journal of Mammalogy: www.umces.edu/sites/default/files/Polyandry%2C%20JM%2C%20September%202013.pdf

I find science fascinating.

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Posted in: academia,children,polyamory,polyandry,polygamy,science

Gonna Need a Bigger House on the Prarie

A scientific study says polyandry pays off for female prarie dogs. As always, I note that what happens in other species isn't always applicable to humans, but this is another example refuting the claim that polyandry is "not natural." In this case, polyandry has increased the likelihood that a female will have more surviving offspring. I found this report at phys.org.

Credit: Elaine Miller Bond (elainemillerbond.com)

Mating with more than one male increases reproductive success for female prairie dogs, despite an increase in risks. This is according to a new study published in The Journal of Mammalogy by behavioral ecologist John Hoogland, Professor at the University of Maryland Center for Environmental Science's Appalachian Laboratory.

Mating entails significant costs such as increased susceptibility to predation and increased exposure to diseases and parasites. So why would a female prairie dog take the risk to mate with multiple males? The answer is simple and clear: female prairie dogs that mate with two or more males rear more offspring than those that mate with only one.

So, if you're a woman looking to have a lot of offspring, polyandry might be a strategy.

Prairie dogs are herbivorous rodents of the squirrel family, and forage aboveground from dawn until dusk. They live in colonies of territorial, contiguous family groups that contain one or two sexually mature adult males, three or four sexually mature adult females, and one or two sexually immature yearling males.

Know any families like that?

More information: "Why do female prairie dogs copulate with more than one male? Insights from long-term research" was published in the September issue of The Journal of Mammalogy: www.umces.edu/sites/default/files/Polyandry%2C%20JM%2C%20September%202013.pdf

I find science fascinating.

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Posted in: academia,children,polyamory,polyandry,polygamy,science

HIV Returns In Two "Cured" Patients

A very disappointing setback.

Two men whom Boston researchers reported in July had been cleared of HIV after receiving bone marrow transplants have had the virus return, the lead researcher announced Thursday. The patients, both of whom had been living with HIV for years, had each received bone marrow transplants several years ago to treat the blood cancer lymphoma. The treatment appeared to have made HIV retreat to undetectable levels in their blood. At the time of the announcement in July, one man had been off antiretroviral drugs for 15 weeks and the other for seven weeks. But the virus returned in one patient in August and the other patient in November, said Dr. Timothy Heinrich, infectious diseases associate physician at Brigham and Women's Hospital, the Boston Globe first reported. Both have since resumed taking HIV medication.

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Posted in: HIV/AIDS,medicine,science

FDA Approves New Hep C Drug

Via press release from the CDC:

Today, the FDA approved an important new treatment for chronic hepatitis C. The drug, sofosbuvir, is a major advance in the treatment of a disease that affects approximately 3 million Americans and causes more than 15,000 deaths in the U.S. annually. Today marks a landmark advance in the treatment of hepatitis C, opening up new opportunities to stop the spread of this virus and the ravages of this disease. However, new therapies only work if people receive treatment – the potential of these and other treatment advances hinges entirely on our ability to get more people screened and into care. Right now, most Americans with hepatitis C don’t access treatment because they have no idea they’re infected.

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Posted in: CDC,FDA,Hep C,medicine,science

When Polyandry is Natural

Many monogamists and some polygynists and even a few polyamorists will assert that polyandry isn't natural. It is Discredited Argument #5 and at thealmagest.com I found another example of polyandry in nature.

Researchers at Bielefeld University and the Technische Universität Braunschweig are the first to confirm the benefit of multiple paternities for a vertebrate under completely natural conditions. Together with their team, Dr. Barbara Caspers and Dr. Sebastian Steinfartz have shown that female fire salamanders mate with several males under natural conditions (so-called polyandry). This grants them fitness-relevant benefits by increasing their number of offspring. The results of their study are being published this Friday (29 November) in the Early View version of Molecular Ecology.

Since humans have sex for many reasons, not just reproduction, it can have other benefits in humans.

For a long time, it was assumed that females in the animal world are monogamous, that is, they mate with only one male. Males, in contrast, can increase their reproductive success by mating with several females. Nowadays, however, polyandry is assumed to be the rule in the animal world and monogamy to be more of an exception.

Interesting.

By subjecting these tissue samples to genetic paternity analyses, the researchers could precisely reconstruct how many males each female had mated with and whether or not the sperm of the different males had been mixed – female salamanders can store the sperm of different males for several months in internal receptive organs called spermathecae. The eggs of the female will only be fertilized with the stored sperm, if environmental conditions are optimal and after eggs have developed into full larvae these are deposited in streams and ponds.

Fascinating.

Through paternity analyses, the researchers were able to show that some females had mated with as many as four different males. The mixing of the sperm from various males in the spermatheca of the female seems to have quite positive effects, leading to more eggs being fertilized and, as a result, more larvae were finally deposited. Accordingly, polyandry and sperm competition seems to be an important mechanism to increase reproductive success and therefore fitness of a female in this terrestrial vertebrate species.

If you're interested in the details of the data, you can find more information in these places...
http://www.uni-bielefeld.de/biologie/vhf/SF/b_caspers.html
http://ekvv.uni-bielefeld.de/blog/uninews/entry/the_more_the_better

This blog supports the rights of all adults, including those in, or who want, polyandrous relationships, or polygynous relationships, or polyamorous relationships of any sort.

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Posted in: academia,polyamory,polyandry,polygamy,science

When Polyandry is Natural

Many monogamists and some polygynists and even a few polyamorists will assert that polyandry isn't natural. It is Discredited Argument #5 and at thealmagest.com I found another example of polyandry in nature.

Researchers at Bielefeld University and the Technische Universität Braunschweig are the first to confirm the benefit of multiple paternities for a vertebrate under completely natural conditions. Together with their team, Dr. Barbara Caspers and Dr. Sebastian Steinfartz have shown that female fire salamanders mate with several males under natural conditions (so-called polyandry). This grants them fitness-relevant benefits by increasing their number of offspring. The results of their study are being published this Friday (29 November) in the Early View version of Molecular Ecology.

Since humans have sex for many reasons, not just reproduction, it can have other benefits in humans.

For a long time, it was assumed that females in the animal world are monogamous, that is, they mate with only one male. Males, in contrast, can increase their reproductive success by mating with several females. Nowadays, however, polyandry is assumed to be the rule in the animal world and monogamy to be more of an exception.

Interesting.

By subjecting these tissue samples to genetic paternity analyses, the researchers could precisely reconstruct how many males each female had mated with and whether or not the sperm of the different males had been mixed – female salamanders can store the sperm of different males for several months in internal receptive organs called spermathecae. The eggs of the female will only be fertilized with the stored sperm, if environmental conditions are optimal and after eggs have developed into full larvae these are deposited in streams and ponds.

Fascinating.

Through paternity analyses, the researchers were able to show that some females had mated with as many as four different males. The mixing of the sperm from various males in the spermatheca of the female seems to have quite positive effects, leading to more eggs being fertilized and, as a result, more larvae were finally deposited. Accordingly, polyandry and sperm competition seems to be an important mechanism to increase reproductive success and therefore fitness of a female in this terrestrial vertebrate species.

If you're interested in the details of the data, you can find more information in these places...
http://www.uni-bielefeld.de/biologie/vhf/SF/b_caspers.html
http://ekvv.uni-bielefeld.de/blog/uninews/entry/the_more_the_better

This blog supports the rights of all adults, including those in, or who want, polyandrous relationships, or polygynous relationships, or polyamorous relationships of any sort.

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Posted in: academia,polyamory,polyandry,polygamy,science

Married Couple Confirm They are Half Siblings

Another case of possible Genetic Sexual Attraction has made news. From chinasmack.com...

In Jiangxi Province, a young married couple were always teased for “looking like each other”. Not long ago, the wife’s father suddenly spoke of a secret: it turns out that many years ago, he and the husband’s mother were secret lovers. Later on, the husband’s mother became pregnant, while the wife’s father fell in love and married someone else. On top of that, the husband’s mother has been dead for over 20 years, so this secret was almost buried forever, up until this young married couple decided to have a child.

Affairs, flings, one-night-stands, divorce/death and subsequent remarriage, etc. have always been a reality in making half-siblings. But now, with sperm, egg, and embryo donations, this is going to be happening more.

In early November, the couple chose to go to the Furong Forensic Centre of the No. 2 Provincial People’s Hospital in Hunan in order to do a DNA test. The results dealt them a heavy blow.

If someone is happy with their partner, they shouldn't let prejudice tear them apart. It is one thing to understand that, another to live it out.

Cao Wei and Xiao Qian (aliases) both grew up in the same city in Jiangxi Province. They lived near each other and had known each other since they were youngsters. Cao Wei is 4 years older than Xiao Qian and always looked after her the way a big brother would. Their relationship gradually began to change ever so subtlety, eventually becoming a romantic relationship.

If they were in each other's life from an early age, then some people would say this doesn't meet the "classic" definition of Genetic Sexual Attraction. However, it could still be an attraction that was based, in part, on shared genes.

On November 20th, legal medical expert and head of the material evidence examination room at the Forensic Centre, Dr Huang Jian, said it was currently unknown how Cao Wei and Xiao Qian would deal with their marriage. She believes that Bao Gen’s irresponsibility not only thoroughly discredits him, but has also deeply hurt his children.

It would hurt a lot less if we supported the right of consenting adults to be together. Did the DNA test reveal any serious genetic risks?

Some of the comments left after the article expressed doubt that this is a real story, but there are people going through this sort of thing all over the world.

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Posted in: Asia,brother-sister,China,consanguineous,family reaction,GSA,love,science,siblings

Married Couple Confirm They are Half Siblings

Another case of possible Genetic Sexual Attraction has made news. From chinasmack.com...

In Jiangxi Province, a young married couple were always teased for “looking like each other”. Not long ago, the wife’s father suddenly spoke of a secret: it turns out that many years ago, he and the husband’s mother were secret lovers. Later on, the husband’s mother became pregnant, while the wife’s father fell in love and married someone else. On top of that, the husband’s mother has been dead for over 20 years, so this secret was almost buried forever, up until this young married couple decided to have a child.

Affairs, flings, one-night-stands, divorce/death and subsequent remarriage, etc. have always been a reality in making half-siblings. But now, with sperm, egg, and embryo donations, this is going to be happening more.

In early November, the couple chose to go to the Furong Forensic Centre of the No. 2 Provincial People’s Hospital in Hunan in order to do a DNA test. The results dealt them a heavy blow.

If someone is happy with their partner, they shouldn't let prejudice tear them apart. It is one thing to understand that, another to live it out.

Cao Wei and Xiao Qian (aliases) both grew up in the same city in Jiangxi Province. They lived near each other and had known each other since they were youngsters. Cao Wei is 4 years older than Xiao Qian and always looked after her the way a big brother would. Their relationship gradually began to change ever so subtlety, eventually becoming a romantic relationship.

If they were in each other's life from an early age, then some people would say this doesn't meet the "classic" definition of Genetic Sexual Attraction. However, it could still be an attraction that was based, in part, on shared genes.

On November 20th, legal medical expert and head of the material evidence examination room at the Forensic Centre, Dr Huang Jian, said it was currently unknown how Cao Wei and Xiao Qian would deal with their marriage. She believes that Bao Gen’s irresponsibility not only thoroughly discredits him, but has also deeply hurt his children.

It would hurt a lot less if we supported the right of consenting adults to be together. Did the DNA test reveal any serious genetic risks?

Some of the comments left after the article expressed doubt that this is a real story, but there are people going through this sort of thing all over the world.

Read more »

Posted in: Asia,brother-sister,China,consanguineous,family reaction,GSA,love,science,siblings

Is Being Poly Genetic?

The Ferrett addresses, “Polyamory Genetic? Is Homosexuality Genetic?”

My thoughts on a genetic polyamory link are the exact same as my thoughts on a genetic homosexual link:

I don’t care.

Right! We have many things, including the technology I’m using to write this and you are using to read this, which are not part of our genetics. What difference does it make? See Discredited Argument #5.

Even if the gays were, as some suggest, all conspiring in one big plot to annoy us fine-thinking straight people, wincing as they sucked distasteful d--- and reluctantly chowed p---y out of some misplaced form of rebellion, it should still be allowed.

The truth is, gay sex is between consenting adults, and it hurts no one but those adults – there are way more deadly car accidents caused by beers than queers. You may consider gayness to be a bad choice, but two people should be free to make bad choices together. And what people want to do for fun in their private life is something that should be allowed, no matter how distasteful it may be to me.

Agreed. See Discredited Argument #1.

We often get caught up in the “nature vs. nurture” aspect of gay and transgender issues, forgetting that this is playing to the conservative bent. What’s important is that people all over the world should have the freedom to live their lives as they see fit assuming they’re not actively harming anyone, and as such Teh Gay Should Be Okay.

So is gay genetically disposed? I say probably, but it doesn’t make a damn bit of difference.

Getting to polyamory…

I’m sure there are tendencies genetically towards certain aspects that encourage polyamory, but polyamory is such a complex term, encompassing so many styles of relationships, that I don’t think a single set of genes could really cover it.

I think we have enough evidence that some people are not monogamous; it goes against their nature, whether being polyamorous can be found in their genes or not.

But it’s irrelevant. I’ve heard it said that after gay marriage gets settled, they’ll be coming after the polyamorous relationships next.

We can only hope. Actually, I’d like to see it all settled at the same time; full marriage equality.

Miranda commented…

For people questioning their identity, I can see how it would be helpful to know that this is what is natural for you. But do we have to use it to justify ourselves with the opposition? I’d rather not anyway.

Yes. It doesn’t matter if someone is turned off by something, or thinks it is harmful to the lovers. An adult should not need to get permission from some politician to be who she or he is and love the person(s) she or he does in the ways to which they mutually consent. An adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race, or religion, should be free to share love, sex, residence, and marriage with any and all consenting adults, without prosecution, persecution, and discrimination.



Is polyamory natural Is polyamory genetic Is being polyamorous natural Is being polyamorous genetic Is polygamy natural

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Posted in: allies,FAQ,freedom to marry,LGBT,polyamory,science,stigma

Differing Ideas About the Origins of Monogamy

At irishtimes.com, William Reville wrote about conflicting theories about the origins of monogamy.

Two big studies were published exploring the origins of monogamy in mammals, which these researchers define as males and females living in breeding pairs (this does not necessarily mean each animal is always faithful).

So even when an animal is listed as monogamous, it might not actually be. Living together, having sex, and raising children are not all the same things.

Birds are quite socially monogamous – 92 per cent stay with a mate for at least a mating season – but monogamy is relatively rare in mammals. This is because both male and female birds can carry out parenting duties such as incubating eggs and feeding chicks, whereas male mammals cannot help gestate or breastfeed.

Overall, 9 per cent of mammalian species are monogamous, whereas about 25 per cent of primate species live in pairs. Monogamous animals include swans, wolves, bald eagles, vultures, Arctic foxes, coyotes, grey seals, meerkats, red foxes, snow leopards, rhinoceroses, beavers, gibbons and mole rats.

Hmmm. Calling someone a "fox" might bring a different image to me now.

The Cambridge study concluded that monogamy evolved independently 61 times in mammals and, in almost all cases, when females lived separated far from each other. The researchers concluded that, under these circumstances, males would have difficulty mating with multiple females, and they would fare better by sticking with a single female and guarding her against advances from other males. Such “one-woman” males would produce more offspring than males who attempted to spread themselves about and, consequently, genes predisposing for monogamy would accumulate in the species.

Humans tend to live in close proximity to each other.

On the contrary, the UCL group concluded that the stimulus for the evolution of monogamy in primates was the high risk of infanticide by males. It is noted today that infanticide rates are very low in monogamous primates, and higher in non-monogamous primates. Males in non-monogamous species may benefit by killing babies sired by rival males.

 Usually in humans, killing a woman's children means you're not going to be having sex with her.

They have no interest in investing resources in fostering rivals’ offspring; also, losing a baby forces the mother to enter her fertile period sooner. Monogamy evolved, the UCL researchers propose, as a counter strategy among males who stayed close to their mates and offspring to defend them.

The Cambridge and UCL researchers are talking to each other but there is much to resolve. The Cambridge group found no evidence that infanticide drove the evolution of monogamy in primates, and the UCL group claims monogamy arose in primates before females moved into separate discrete territories.

The two groups disagree over the implications of their research for human evolution. The UCL team says human monogamy evolved to minimise the threat of infanticide. The Cambridge team says its own results have little bearing on humans because humans evolved from ancestors that lived in social groups, so their theory on monogamy and females living far apart doesn’t apply.

Right.

Indeed the Cambridge group wonders whether humans ever evolved monogamy at all, because in many traditional societies one man may take several wives. According to George P Murdock’s Ethnographic Atlas (University of Pittsburgh Press, 1969), among 1,231 societies around the world, 186 are monogamous, 453 are occasionally polygamist, 588 are frequently polygamist and four practise polyandry (married to more than one husband).

What about places where it is common and accepted for at least one spouse in a "monogamous" marriage to have a long-term lover on the side?

However, the actual practice of polygamy in a tolerant society may be low. In many monogamous societies the divorce rate approaches 50 per cent, and re-marriage is common. In reality, these “monogamous societies” practise serial monogamy, a form of plural mating.

Well, yes, that is the whole "serial monogamy" or "serial polygamy" thing.

How many humans go through their entire life with only one sex partner?
How many humans go through their entire life only having/raising children with one other person?
How many humans go through their entire life only ever living the same one partner?
How many humans go through their entire life only marrying on person?

Considering all of this, it makes it less plausible to say monogamy is or should be the norm for humans. I'm not someone who says nobody should be monogamous. Although I am polyamorous, I do not think polygamory is for everyone. I fully support someone's right to be monogamous, and if they're happy being monogamous I am happy for them. In turn, I welcome monogamous allies for the rights of the polyamorous, especially in light of the scientific facts.

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Posted in: children,human origins,monogamy,polyamory,polyandry,polygamy,polygyny,pregnancy,science

Differing Ideas About the Origins of Monogamy

At irishtimes.com, William Reville wrote about conflicting theories about the origins of monogamy.

Two big studies were published exploring the origins of monogamy in mammals, which these researchers define as males and females living in breeding pairs (this does not necessarily mean each animal is always faithful).

So even when an animal is listed as monogamous, it might not actually be. Living together, having sex, and raising children are not all the same things.

Birds are quite socially monogamous – 92 per cent stay with a mate for at least a mating season – but monogamy is relatively rare in mammals. This is because both male and female birds can carry out parenting duties such as incubating eggs and feeding chicks, whereas male mammals cannot help gestate or breastfeed.

Overall, 9 per cent of mammalian species are monogamous, whereas about 25 per cent of primate species live in pairs. Monogamous animals include swans, wolves, bald eagles, vultures, Arctic foxes, coyotes, grey seals, meerkats, red foxes, snow leopards, rhinoceroses, beavers, gibbons and mole rats.

Hmmm. Calling someone a "fox" might bring a different image to me now.

The Cambridge study concluded that monogamy evolved independently 61 times in mammals and, in almost all cases, when females lived separated far from each other. The researchers concluded that, under these circumstances, males would have difficulty mating with multiple females, and they would fare better by sticking with a single female and guarding her against advances from other males. Such “one-woman” males would produce more offspring than males who attempted to spread themselves about and, consequently, genes predisposing for monogamy would accumulate in the species.

Humans tend to live in close proximity to each other.

On the contrary, the UCL group concluded that the stimulus for the evolution of monogamy in primates was the high risk of infanticide by males. It is noted today that infanticide rates are very low in monogamous primates, and higher in non-monogamous primates. Males in non-monogamous species may benefit by killing babies sired by rival males.

 Usually in humans, killing a woman's children means you're not going to be having sex with her.

They have no interest in investing resources in fostering rivals’ offspring; also, losing a baby forces the mother to enter her fertile period sooner. Monogamy evolved, the UCL researchers propose, as a counter strategy among males who stayed close to their mates and offspring to defend them.

The Cambridge and UCL researchers are talking to each other but there is much to resolve. The Cambridge group found no evidence that infanticide drove the evolution of monogamy in primates, and the UCL group claims monogamy arose in primates before females moved into separate discrete territories.

The two groups disagree over the implications of their research for human evolution. The UCL team says human monogamy evolved to minimise the threat of infanticide. The Cambridge team says its own results have little bearing on humans because humans evolved from ancestors that lived in social groups, so their theory on monogamy and females living far apart doesn’t apply.

Right.

Indeed the Cambridge group wonders whether humans ever evolved monogamy at all, because in many traditional societies one man may take several wives. According to George P Murdock’s Ethnographic Atlas (University of Pittsburgh Press, 1969), among 1,231 societies around the world, 186 are monogamous, 453 are occasionally polygamist, 588 are frequently polygamist and four practise polyandry (married to more than one husband).

What about places where it is common and accepted for at least one spouse in a "monogamous" marriage to have a long-term lover on the side?

However, the actual practice of polygamy in a tolerant society may be low. In many monogamous societies the divorce rate approaches 50 per cent, and re-marriage is common. In reality, these “monogamous societies” practise serial monogamy, a form of plural mating.

Well, yes, that is the whole "serial monogamy" or "serial polygamy" thing.

How many humans go through their entire life with only one sex partner?
How many humans go through their entire life only having/raising children with one other person?
How many humans go through their entire life only ever living the same one partner?
How many humans go through their entire life only marrying on person?

Considering all of this, it makes it less plausible to say monogamy is or should be the norm for humans. I'm not someone who says nobody should be monogamous. Although I am polyamorous, I do not think polygamory is for everyone. I fully support someone's right to be monogamous, and if they're happy being monogamous I am happy for them. In turn, I welcome monogamous allies for the rights of the polyamorous, especially in light of the scientific facts.

Read more »

Posted in: children,human origins,monogamy,polyamory,polyandry,polygamy,polygyny,pregnancy,science

Does Polyandry Increase Offspring Health?

I found this at business-standard.com...

A joint study by researchers from four universities has suggested women could improve quality of their offspring by mating with multiple partners.

Experts examined the behaviour of an ancestor of the domestic chicken and found that mating with different males helped females produce offspring that are more resistant to disease, Daily Mail reported.

Now they claim their findings could be applied to other animals as well as humans.

I'm always cautious about citing the behavior of other species to support/oppose human behavior, but less cautious about comparing biological results.

In humans, polyandrous families (and polyamorous families in general) have found that having more adults around to assist, supervise, and protect children can always be helpful.

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Posted in: children,polyamory,polyandry,polygamy,pregnancy,science