Showing posts with label lack of equality harms. Show all posts
Showing posts with label lack of equality harms. Show all posts

Monday, March 10, 2014

Zambia Keeps Prosecuting Consenting Adults For Marrying

Another news item out of Zambia details the prosecuting of consenting adults in an attempt to break up a marriage. If you think this only happens in Africa, you are sorely mistaken. Where I live, in the US, many states still prosecute in these cases, and it happens in many other countries as well. Chambo Ng'uni reports at dail-mail.co.zm...

A 27-YEAR-OLD man of Kabwe and his young sister aged 20 have appeared in the Kabwe Magistrate’s Court to answer to charges of incest.
 

Aaron Musonda an electrician and Maureen Musonda a grade 12 pupil in Kabwe both appeared before Kabwe resident magistrate John Mbuzi on Thursday for explanation of the charge of incest.
The accused persons are both residents of Makululu Township and they share the same father but different mothers.

So they are half siblings. For all we know they were not raised together and this is a case of Genetic Sexual Attraction.
The police have slapped Musonda with a charge of incest by males contrary to Section 159(1) of the Penal Code Chapter 87 of the laws of Zambia.
 

It is alleged that Musonda on dates unknown but between December 1 last year and February 27 this year in Kabwe, knowing that Maureen was his sister, allegedly had unlawful carnal knowledge of her.
 

His sister has been charged with incest by females, contrary to Section 161 of the Penal Code Chapter 87 of the Laws of Zambia.
 
The court heard that Maureen on dates unknown but between December 1 last year and February 27 this year in Kabwe, allegedly permitted her elder brother to have sex with her.

And...? What's the problem? Notice, no explanation of harm to anyone is cited in the article.
The police at Kasanda Police Station last Friday confirmed that the two were reported to the police by their father who wanted the police to end their marriage.

What a rat. So it is OK for him to have sex with and impregnate at least two women, but not OK for other consenting adults to love each other? He should have read this.
A police source said according to their father, siblings allegedly got married last year and when their family attempted to end their affair they fled Kabwe.
 

The source said they resurfaced this year, and their family heard that they were renting a house in Makululu.

Renting a house! Oh, those scary people! Seriously, what a waste of law enforcement resources. Let them be together, and let them marry if they want. There is no good reason to deny them their rights.

Saturday, March 8, 2014

A Cruel Double Standard

I might need to add #20 to the series NOT a Good Reason to Deny (Consanguineous) Love and #22 to the Discredited Arguments page, because I've heard and read people say that people in consanguinamorous relationships (or step or adoptive relationships that have gone romantic) don't need the freedom to marry because they're already family. In addition to being as senseless as telling a woman she can't marry her sister's husband's brother (which is legal and does happen) because they are already family, the statement can bring up a very cruel double standard.

In many situations involving Genetic Sexual Attraction, the lovers are not legally family for the purposes of insurance, benefits, taxes, hospital visitation, next of kin, etc. because they were adopted into or born into (via sperm, egg, or embryo donation) different families. Also, in many places, when a married woman gives birth, the child is legally her spouse's child as well. What if, due to sex with someone other than her spouse, the woman's child is genetically a half-sibling to another married couple's child, and as adults they decide they'd like to marry?

The double standard is that, while these genetically related people don't enjoy the benefits of being family, in places that still have ridiculous laws discriminating against consensual adult incest, they are considered family and thus can (and are) criminally prosecuted for consensual sex or at least denied their right to marry.

You're not family so you can't get the benefit of being family. You are family so you are going to be prosecuted for having loved each other in sexual way. That's cruel.

As an example, if something were to happen to Melissa and she ended up in a hospital, her adoptive parents could bar Matthew and Linda from even being by her side, let alone making decisions about her care, even though Matthew and Linda are, for practical purposes, her spouses. She would be married to them if she could, but the law isn't there yet.

Those who are sharing, or want to share their lives as spouses or partners often do need the same rights, benefits, and protections as any other spouses, and there’s no good reason to deny them their fundamental right to marry. Also, marriage automatically provides for next-of-kin status, which is especially important when there is some discord between at least one of the lovers and legal family members outside of the consanguinamorous relationship.

There are many cruel double standards when trying to tell other consenting adults how to love each other. GSA or not, consanguinamorous people need discriminatory laws to be done away with, and need access to the protections provided by marriage, if they want them. This is yet another reason we need full marriage equality sooner rather than later.

Thursday, March 6, 2014

Why the South Needs Full Marriage Equality

This is why the South and the rest of the US needs full marriage equality sooner rather than later. It is an interview at The Final Manifesto with a woman who is denied the right to marry the other parent of her child.

You can read interviews I have done here.

Tuesday, March 4, 2014

Newspaper Editorial Calls For Hate

A newspaper in Zambia is calling for more hate in response to recent shocking discoveries that people are loving each other even though they are siblings. Here is the editorial at daily-mail.co.zm...

THE continued reports of incestuous marriages in Central Province are worrying and raise many social and psychological questions.
What is there to worry about?

We urge relevant Government organs and non-governmental organisations to carry out a research to establish if this could be widespread and unravel the factors that could be driving people in this particular province into such marriages.

Yes, it is common. What is driving them to it is usually the same thing that drives any lovers.

This kind of behaviour should not be allowed to take root because it could have devastating social and biological consequences.

Such as...? Such as...? They got nuthin'.
Human beings are not animals that are ruled by instinct. We are ruled by reason.
Some of us are ruled by reason. Others want to interfere in the marriages of strangers.

Surely, how could a brother and sister have the courage to engage in a sexual relationship and even have children between them?
I can show you video.
This does not happen even in the most liberal and morally depraved western societies.
This happens everywhere and always has.
Incest is a criminal offence in Zambia.
Not for any good reason

It is disturbing to imagine the stigma the innocent children that could be born out of such a perverted marriage would have to endure.

Uh, then stop stigmatizing them.

What a pile of crap that editorial is. I hope the person who wrote it doesn't actually get paid for that drivel.

Monday, March 3, 2014

An Example of the Benefit of Nonmonogamy in Nature

I am polyamorous, but not one of those polyamorists who say everyone else should be polyamorous, too. When I say I support the rights of consenting adults, that includes the freedom to be monogamous or celibate. And, as I always say, just because something is found in another species, it doesn't automatically apply to humans. With those things out of the way, I wanted to note Carl Zimmer's report at nytimes.com that flies forced into monogamy apparently lose learning ability.
Forcing male flies into monogamy has a startling effect: After a few dozen generations, the flies become worse at learning.

This discovery, published on Wednesday in the Proceedings of the Royal Society, isn’t a biological excuse for men who have strayed from their significant other. Instead, it’s a tantalizing clue about why intelligence evolved.

The new study was carried out by Brian Hollis and Tadeusz J. Kawecki, biologists at the University of Lausanne in Switzerland. They investigated a fly species called Drosophila melanogaster that normally has a very un-monogamous way of life.
I do think it causes all sorts of problems to try to force a polyamorous person into monogamy. Human history has shown that over and over again. Also, many polyamorous people will tell you that living out polyamory has made them better people and taught them much.

Thursday, February 27, 2014

Guilty Pleas in Absurd Prosecution of Consenting Adults


Incest charges pair photo
Frank Humphreys and Eleanor Jackson

To update a case we last reported here, Duncan Bick reports at newsandstar.co.uk that law enforcement official in Cumbria, England have gone ahead with their ridiculous and unjust prosecution of consenting adults for having sex with each other in private. Outrageous.

Frank Humphreys, 51, and 23-year-old Eleanor Jackson both pleaded guilty to a charge of “having sex with an adult relative” during a brief appearance at Carlisle Crown Court.

The pair, of Princess Street, Cleator, appeared at the same court last year and denied the charge but they changed their pleas yesterday.
There's no victim! Why is this a crime?

They spoke only to confirm their names and enter their pleas in front of Judge Peter Hughes QC.
They had sex between December 2011 and February 2012.
So they had sex. And what terrible thing happened as a result??? Judge Peter Hughes QC should've thrown this case out! They will be sentenced in April. Absurd.

THIS is exactly why we need rights for all consenting adults, all over the planet. They should not only be free to be together and love each other as they see best, but marry if that is what they'd like. Instead law enforcement resources are wasted in prosecuting them.

Thursday, February 20, 2014

Discovering Consanguinamory in the Family Tree

I am [or, had been] active on [a certain Big Online Portal's question and answer service], especially when it comes to explaining the importance of relationship rights, full marriage equality, and decriminalizing consanguinamory. Someone had this question...

Family Tree Concerns..?
My Grandfather recently passed away and my Grandmother told us all that her and my Grandfather were never married, they had always celebrated an anniversary (or so we thought,) but didn't understand while she waited till he died before telling us. After further research into my family tree I have discovered that my Grandmother married her Uncle (is this incest!?!), my Mother feels all weird because it feels like her life has been a lie and the only person she could have asked and got a proper answer was her Dad but now he's gone so we are both just looking for some advice or if anyone has been or is going through a similar situation...
This was my answer, which was chosen as the best answer (thankyouverymuch)...
= = = =
Here's what matters: Was your grandfather a good person? A good spouse to your Grandmother? A good parent? A good grandparent? THAT is what matters, not any genetic or legal relation to your grandmother. There's no lie about any of that. Your mother's life is no different now than it was before she knew that information. She's just allowing cultural prejudices to influence her reaction. Your grandparents had what is called a common-law marriage. As long as they were good to each other, that is what matters.

You didn't make it clear, but it appears you mean your grandfather was the brother of one of your grandmother's parents (he would still be an "uncle" to her if he had, at one time, been married to one of your grandmother's parents' sister without any biological relation to your grandmother). Assuming there was a genetic connection (though it is possible he had been adopted into the family, too), that is still no reason for alarm. This is much more common than people think. People are finding out about this through DNA testing and family records, although family records don't always reveal the truth. If you go back further, it is virtually guaranteed you'll find you have consanguineous ancestors.

You don't have to go too far back in anyone's family tree to find these kinds of things. I doubt there is a person out there whose ancestry has nothing like this.

In other words.... you and your family are as normal as everyone else.
= = =

Just about everyone has incestuous childbearing in their family tree. In some cases, someone was raped, which  of course is a horrible,  or there was cheating. In other cases, it was true love between people who were not cheating on anyone. If the law prevented them from legally marrying or from telling the truth, that is a problem, a terrible problem, of the law, and just one of many reasons we need full marriage equality. It is not something wrong with the lovers.

Thursday, February 13, 2014

Valentine's Day


Valentine's Day is here again. Many people will be getting married. Married people will be celebrating their anniversaries, or simply having a night out, as will other people hoping to get married someday, or maybe just enjoying being together in public.

If you are in such a situation, good for you and enjoy it.

Whether you are or not, take a moment to think about all of the people who can’t marry the person or person(s) they love, or can’t so much as hold hands in public without being accosted. Think about the people, consenting adults, who have to completely hide their relationships because they could be sent to prison for simply having sex in private. Think about the people who have to hide who they are because, where they live, they could be killed for being who they are. Think about the people who can’t accept gifts from their their lover(s) at work, or even a loving comment on their Facebook wall, because it would out them and get them fired.

This is what goes on because some people are being denied their rights to share sex, love, residence, and marriage. A woman can’t marry the woman she loves in most states in the US. She can in Canada and some other countries, but most countries still deny this freedom to marry. Hopefully, the US will change that as national policy soon. At least some victories are happening around the US. In most of the world, a man can’t marry both of the women he loves, despite both women being in favor of such a marriage.

The people in these interviews can't have legally recognized marriages anywhere in the world, with perhaps one or two exceptions, and we need full marriage equality before people like Linda, Melissa, and Matthew can tie the knot.

So enjoy Valentine’s Day if you are able, but think for a moment about the people who will only be able to fully enjoy theirs when we have full marriage equality so that an adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race, or religion, is free to share love, sex, residence, and marriage with any and all consenting adults without prosecution, persecution, or discrimination.

Saturday, February 8, 2014

How Nonmonogamous People Can Avoid Trouble


Believe it or not, there are still criminal laws in many places criminalizing consensual sex and relationships between adults.

It doesn't matter to them how loving, happy, and lasting the relationships are. It apparently doesn't matter to the people interfering that every dollar or minute they spend trying to stop consenting adults from loving each other is a dollar or minute that could instead go into protecting people, especially children, against predators.

In addition to the persecution and prosecution of consanguinamorous people, polyamorists, polygamists, and other ethical nonmonogamists can face discrimination and even prosecution.
Some awesome people put together a very helpful lists of state laws for polyamorous people in the US or considering moving to the US. First, note the disclaimer that there is an ever-present at the bottom of this blog. I'll mostly repeat it here:

The focus of this blog is consenting adults. This blog does not advocate anyone engage in activity that is currently illegal in their jurisdiction; it does advocate changing or repealing any law that prevents the freedom of association, love, and full marriage equality for adults. This blog condemns rape, sexual assault, and child molestation, and does not provide medical, therapeutic, legal, financial, or cooking advice. This blog links to other sites for informational purposes; it does not necessarily support everything at those links.
OK, with that out of the way, I'll continue as a friend.


Please keep in mind that while a state may not have a law against "fornication" (sex outside of a legal marriage), "adultery" (when a married person has sex with someone other than her or his legal spouse), or cohabitation, it might still criminalize consensual sex between close relatives (whether genetically related, steprelation, or adoptive). For more information about that, see here. Also, laws on the books may be rarely or selectively enforced, so it it s good to consult an attorney familiar with the laws of a state as well as actual criminal and civil cases in that state and general legal climate.

While most nonmonogamists never get prosecuted or sued, the threat is always there in many places.

With states that allow a legally married spouse to get an advantage in a divorce by citing adultery or sue their spouse's lover for financial compensation, the only way to be sure of avoiding a problem is to simply avoid the risk entirely by not getting involved with someone who is legally married, or, if you are legally married, not getting involved with anyone other than your spouse. Even if everyone is enthusiastic at first or at the time of the sex or relationship, someone can still use the law to get what they see as revenge should things tum cold.

State By State


All 50 US states have statutes against bigamy/polygamy (multiple licensed marriages). In most states, bigamy is a felony.

In the following states, bigamy is a misdemeanor. However, once the penalty is paid, you are back at square one.

Alaska
Arkansas
Hawaii (petty misdemeanor-- 30 days in jail)
Iowa
Maine
Missouri
Montana
Nebraska
New Jersey
Ohio
Pennsylvania
Rhode Island (misdemeanor, $1000)
Tennessee
Texas

The following lists are ordered by which states have the most promise statutorily. The first list is the best, the last list is the worst.

The following states, have no statutes against  fornication, adultery, or cohabitation, and they also do not recognize common-law marriages (which assigns marital status to people who might not want to be considered married).

California
Hawaii
Nevada
Oregon
Washington

The following states have statutes that concern adultery, but none for fornication, cohabitation, or common-law marriage. In some of them adultery is grounds for divorce only. In others the offending spouse simply forfeits any rights to the innocent spouse's estate. In the rest of them, adultery is a crime that can only be prosecuted by the offended spouse. In a successful polygamous relationship, these need not be obstructive. If the relationship fails, however, the statutory adulterer will be charged.

Connecticut
Delaware
Indiana
Kentucky
Louisiana
Maine
Maryland (Adultery results in a $10 fine and is grounds for divorce)
Missouri
New Jersey
Ohio
South Dakota
Tennessee
Texas (Texas does recognize common-law marriages, but apparently only if they are registered with the county clerk)
Vermont

Both states make adultery and fornication misdemeanors, although in Illinois the conduct must be "open and notorious." For interest's sake, we have listed all of the states whose statutes are no worse than Georgia or Illinois. This only means that in these states you are as likely as not, to be able to find a lawyer who will talk to you.

Arizona
Georgia
Illinois
Michigan
Minnesota
New Hampshire (New Hampshire recognizes common-law marriages, but only for inheritance purposes after death)
New Mexico
New York
North Dakota

The following states have laws against cohabitation.

Alabama
Alaska
Arkansas
Florida
Massachusetts
Mississippi
Nebraska
North Carolina
South Carolina
Virginia
West Virginia
Wyoming

The following states recognize common-law marriages, or else make adultery a felony, and are not on the previous lists.

Colorado
Idaho
Iowa
Kansas
Montana
Oklahoma
Pennsylvania
Rhode Island
Utah
Washington D.C.
Wisconsin

How do people minimize the risk of losing in court? What can nonmonogamists do to protect themselves? Any of these steps might help...

1) Consult a lawyer. I am not a lawyer. A criminal defense or family law attorney might be someone well worth consulting.

2) Move to more enlightened states or countries.

3) Be careful who you tell and what you tell them. In the US, we have a Constitutional right against self-incrimination (see 5th Amendment) and the right to remain silent when arrested by law enforcement. It's a good idea when dealing with police to give them polite, brief "yes" or "no" or "I don't know" or "I don't remember" answers unless even one of those could incriminate you. In the US, you also have the right to an attorney and it is a good idea speak up and ask for a lawyer if you're held or taken in by police. Also in the US, unless there is imminent danger to someone, you don't have the let police into your home without a search warrant, and even search warrants can have limits. YOU may think something is obvious and gives you away, the police may even have figured it out, but staying silent about it can still protect you.

4) Be careful what you document. Many lovers enjoy taking video or pictures of themselves having fun with each other, but for the nonmonogamous, such media, if it falls into the wrong hands, can be trouble.

5) Have a cover story. Anticipate questions, whether from those you know you or those who don't who might not approve. Historically, it isn't unusual for a home to have three or more adults.

6) Know your risk in raising children. Not only will children have to deal with the prejudice of others, but children may also provide testimony that goes against you, often unwittingly.

7) Stick to private places and lock the door when you get to the fun.


Note that most ethicists say it is OK to lie to authorities who are trying to enforce unjust laws or policies. An extreme example is a Nazi SS officer asking you, "Are you hiding any Jews here?" It was ethical to say "No." Well, I think that applies here, too, though the situation is not as extreme. It is nobody else's business if adults are having consensual sex or relationships.

This advice shouldn't even be necessary, but until we get to the point where we have relationship rights for all adults, including full marriage equality, nonmonogamists should think about protecting themselves. Of course, some level of trouble is necessary to make change. Laws need to be overturned in courts or changed by legislatures, but it is up to each set of lovers to decide for themselves if they want to come out of the closet and to push for those things. The more other people realize that ethical nonomonogamy is a reality all around them, the sooner the persecution will be greatly reduced.

Police officers usually have some wiggle-room when it comes to investigating or arresting people can can look the other way if they choose. Prosecutors can choose not to prosecute. Judges can dismiss cases. Juries can refuse to convict (research jury nullification). So I beg these people to let consenting adults love each other without harassment, without prosecution.

Do you have any suggestions? Any tales to tell about what you've done to protect yourself? What do you think, dear reader? Leave a comment or email me.

Thursday, February 6, 2014

How Consanguineous Lovers Can Avoid Trouble


Believe it or not, there are still criminal laws in many places criminalizing consensual sex between adults, and there are still police officers who will investigate people for this "crime," still prosecutors who will take the case before a court, and still judges and jurors who will convict people and sentence them to prison.

It doesn't matter to them how loving the relationships are. It doesn't matter if they love each other more than they could love others, it doesn't matter if the lovers didn't even meet each other until they were adults. It apparently doesn't matter to the people interfering that every dollar or minute they spend trying to stop consenting adults from loving each other is a dollar or minute that could instead go into protecting people, especially children, against predators.

In addition to this persecution of consanguinamorous people, there aren't any protections against other forms of discrimination against the consanguinamorous, such as employment discrimination. There are still many states that don't have protections for LGBT people, either, and polyamorous people are even less protected than monogamous LGBT people.

I sometimes forget that people don’t follow the news and law as closely as I do for this blog, so they may be unaware of these things. So I want to share with you what I've learned.

First, note the disclaimer that there is an ever-present at the bottom of this blog. I'll mostly repeat it here:


The focus of this blog is consenting adults. This blog does not advocate anyone engage in activity that is currently illegal in their jurisdiction; it does advocate changing or repealing any law that prevents the freedom of association, love, and full marriage equality for adults. This blog condemns rape, sexual assault, and child molestation, and does not provide medical, therapeutic, legal, financial, or cooking advice. This blog links to other sites for informational purposes; it does not necessarily support everything at those links.
OK, with that out of the way, I'll continue as a friend.

The vast majority of people who have consensual sex with a close relative never get "caught." 10-15% of people in their early 20s will confide in surveys to having had consensual sexual contact with a sibling. The percentages rise in older age groups. That's just the people who will confide in the surveys, and doesn't include being with aunts, uncles, parents, etc.. The percentages increase in older age groups because there are more opportunities over the years. Many of those situations involve a moment or a fling or something that just lasts for season, but in other cases they are long-term romances and lifelong spousal relationships.

While most never get prosecuted, the threat is always there in so many places, and I regularly find news reports of such prosecutions. When people do get caught and publicly persecuted and, often, prosecuted, in almost every case, the lovers were outed and handed over to ax-grinding prosecutors due to one or more of a few factors (presented in no particular order):

1) Self-incrimination.
2) Being ratted out by a claimed witness.
3) Testing and reporting of a child's DNA.
4) Being caught in the act by law enforcement.

In other words, it isn’t like the police come door to door, scan crowds in public, or are doing stakeouts to catch consanguineous lovers breaking laws against consensual incest. That's the good news. But let's take a closer look at the bad news.

Self-incrimination. One of the problems is that people either "confess" or tell law enforcement way too much that they don't have to. One or more of them admit the relationship, often not aware it is (still, stupidly) illegal where they are, wrongly thinking if they explain it was consensual then of course the police will leave them alone. For a real-life example of this, see this posting. Law enforcement may also get a hold of some media (love letters, homemade videos) that documents the sexual aspect of the relationship. That's right... doing something so many other lovers do freely can be used against these consensual relationships.

Ratted out. Someone outside of the relationship, whether a nosy neighbor, a malicious ex, a jealous or envious family member, even a professional/academic/social rival sees something, hears something, or just gets a hunch based on how the lovers are smitten with each other and they contact the authorities. See this example.

Child. If someone dares to exercise their reproductive rights and have a child together, the DNA of that child is proof of parentage. Contrary to popular myths, most children born to close relatives are healthy and do not look any different than any other child. Many of the ones I've seen are beautiful children. But, if the child's DNA is tested and the results showing the parents are consanguineous reported to the authorities, depending on the circumstances it may be used as evidence against the lovers. See this example.
Caught in public. Many, many people have had sex in "public" places, usually without getting caught. Depending on the circumstances, police might send the lovers on their way. But, if in checking identification and asking questions, the police determine that the lovers are closely related (see "self-incrimination" above), they might arrest the lovers even when they would have otherwise let them go. See this example.

So what can those who enjoy consanguinamory do to protect themselves? Any of these steps might help.

1) Consult a lawyer. I am not a lawyer. A criminal defense or family law attorney might be someone well worth consulting.

2) Move to more enlightened states or countries. Moving also may get you away from those who are aware of your biological relation and would oppose your relationship. The best states in the US are Rhode Island and New Jersey. Perhaps the worst state is Texas, which technically criminalizes sex between first cousins.

3) Be careful who you tell and what you tell them. In the US, we have a Constitutional right against self-incrimination (see 5th Amendment) and the right to remain silent when arrested by law enforcement. It's a good idea when dealing with police to give them polite, brief "yes" or "no" or "I don't know" or "I don't remember" answers unless even one of those could incriminate you. In the US, you also have the right to an attorney and it is a good idea speak up and ask for a lawyer if you're held or taken in by police. Also in the US, unless there is imminent danger to someone, you don't have the let police into your home without a search warrant, and even search warrants can have limits. YOU may think something is obvious and gives you away, the police may even have figured it out, but staying silent about it can still protect you.

4) Be careful what you document. Many lovers enjoy taking video or pictures of themselves having fun with each other, but for the consanguinamorous, such media, if it falls into the wrong hands, can be trouble.
5) Have a cover story. Anticipate questions, whether from those you know you or those who don't who might not approve. There's nothing unusual or unconventional about family members living together, going places together, or frequently visiting each other. In extreme situations, consanguineous lovers might want to take on "beards," meaning pretending to have a relationship with (even marrying) others to direct attention away from their "forbidden" relationship. If someone does this, it is better not to deceive the beard(s) but rather have an agreement with someone who is fully informed. An example of an ideal situation along these lines would be if two siblings from one family married two siblings from another family. Such marriages have always gone on and were even popular in some places in the past, whether as real marriages or as beard situations.

6) Know your risk in having biological children together. Many consanguineous lovers opt not to take the risk, either for genetic reasons or legal reasons (or, like other people, because they just plain preferred not to have children). In some places, a credible defense if DNA proves a child was born to close relatives is to claim that the child was conceived through using a turkey baster or condom or sex toy that resulted in artificial insemination (the claim would be that the male ejaculated onto or into the object, which was then inserted into the female). In such places, it is the actual sex act that is criminal, not having genetic children together.
7) Stick to private places and lock the door when you get to the fun.


Note that most ethicists say it is OK to lie to authorities who are trying to enforce unjust laws or polices. An extreme example is a Nazi SS officer asking you, "Are you hiding any Jews here?" It was ethical to say "No." Well, I think that applies here, too, though the situation is not as extreme. It is nobody else's business if adults are having consensual sex.

This advice shouldn't even be necessary, but until we get to the point where we have relationship rights for all adults, including full marriage equality, consanguinamorous people should think about protecting themselves. Of course, some level of trouble is necessary to make change. Laws need to be overturned in courts or changed by legislatures, but it is up to each set of lovers to decide for themselves if they want to come out of the closet to push for those things. I have seen at least two couples come out publicly on Facebook, which resulted, in at least one of the cases, them being given trouble by some of the people who were supposed to be their friends. But the more other people realize that consanguinamory is a reality all around them, the sooner the persecution will be greatly reduced.

Police officers usually have some wiggle-room when it comes to investigating or arresting people can can look the other way if they choose. Prosecutors can choose not to prosecute. Judges can dismiss cases. Juries can refuse to convict (research jury nullification). So I beg these people to let consenting adults love each other without harassment, without prosecution.

Do you have any suggestions? Any tales to tell about what you've done to protect yourself, or being caught, or catching someone? What do you think, dear reader? Leave a comment or email me.

Tuesday, February 4, 2014

Cousins Can't Love Each Other Because it Makes Gay Babies

Or so says someone by the name of  Ropafadzo Mapimhidze writing at newsday.co.zw about the cruel treatment (including criminal conviction) recently of a couple of consenting adults in Zimbabwe, prosecuted for loving each other while being first cousins. You know, like hundred of millions of other people throughout history and alive today and legally married.
This story has generated so much debate and I decided to do a bit of research on reasons why incest is taboo, and why incest occurs despite the prohibition. And what the consequences are.

Where this is taboo, it is because of superstition, ignorance, legislative inertia, and control. It happens anyway because consenting adults love each other more than they pay attention to following unjust laws.
Such children can be born with extra toes, three eyes, and they can also grow to become homosexual, they may also have a low IQ and a potential to mentally harm future offspring, says the website. It also notes that such children can become people who are not able to interact with others or express love.


First of all, they were not prosecuted for having children. They were prosecuted for having sex. There is a difference. Also, all the columnist described above happens with unrelated lovers, too. In fact, we do not prevent people with obvious, serious, genetic diseases and birth defects from dating, having sex, having children, or marrying. But there are hundreds of millions of children from first cousins who are healthy, attractive, bright, and very social. Finally, there's nothing wrong with being gay.
The New York Times recently reported that first cousins are somewhat more likely than unrelated parents to have a child with a serious birth defect, mental retardation or genetic disease, but their increased risk is nowhere near as large as most people think, the newspaper quoted research done by some scientists.

But who needs scientists when we can listen to bigotry instead?

At least the piece does mention Genetic Sexual Attraction. Then it goes on to...
“Traditionally, such matters were dealt with by chiefs who then would find the rightful people to raise products of incest. We have to go back to our roots and see how best these matters can be dealt with the Zimbabwean way because these children are innocent victims of incest,” Kandiero said.

You know what makes children the biggest victims? When strangers use the power of unjust laws to force their parents apart and break up their home and brand their parents as criminals.

Monday, February 3, 2014

Will The Philippines Take a Step Backwards?

As reported by Xianne Arcangel at gmanetwork.com, lawmakers in the Philippines are considering legislation that would criminalize consanguinamory.
Incestuous affairs between family members 18 years old and above—even if done with consent—may soon be penalized if the proposed Anti-Incest bill is passed into law.
 
House Bill 3329, filed by Cagayan de Oro representative Rufus Rodriguez and his brother ABAMIN party-list representative Maximo Rodriguez Jr., seeks to penalize incest between consenting parties.
Very bad idea. Not only would it move the nation away from, rather than closer to, relationship rights for all adults, including full marriage equality, but criminalizing CONSENSUAL adult relationships will make it harder for law enforcement to stop ABUSERS because resources will be diverted AND witnesses and victims will be less willing to cooperate out of fear of law enforcement.
Rodriguez said in a statement on Sunday that an Anti-Incest law is needed to address the "rising" number of incestuous relationships occurring in families of overseas Filipino workers (OFWs).
That doesn't actually say why they should be criminalized. And the number probably isn't rising. They are just becoming more aware of the reality that has always been there.
Under Articles 37 and 38 of the Family Code of the Philippines, incestuous marriages are void ab initio—from the beginning—for being contrary to public policy.
That needs to be dumped.
The Anti-Rape Law of 1997, meanwhile, imposes the death penalty for rape when the victim is under 18 years old and the offender is a relative within the third civil degree, or when the offender is the common-law spouse of the parent of the abused individual.
So children are already protected.
Under HB 3329, incestuous sexual relations with consent between ascendants and descendants of any degree, as well as between brothers and sisters whether of the full or half blood will be prohibited and considered unlawful.  
There is no good reason for this.
In-laws, stepparents and stepchildren, adoptive parents and their children, as well as collateral blood relatives, whether legitimate or illegitimate up to the fourth civil degree, are also banned from having incestuous affairs.
Ridiculous.
Violators shall be punished with prision correccional, or imprisonment for from six months to six years. 
Why? To whom are they a threat?
Jhoanna Ballaran of the manilatimes.net also covered this news.

An adult should be free to share love, sex, residence, and marriage with any consenting adults.

Saturday, February 1, 2014

Updates on Two Criminal Cases

A sentence has been issued in this absurd prosecution of two adults in Zimbabwe for loving each other and (gasp!) being cousins! Here's a report from radiovop.com...
Two members of the Feremenga family from Dzivarasekwa Extension in Harare, whose incestuous relationship resulted in two pregnancies, were yesterday convicted and ordered to perform 630 hours of community service at different institutions in the suburb.
Robson (21) and Ashley Feremenga (19), whose fathers are blood brothers, pleaded guilty to incest charges when they appeared before Harare regional magistrate Adonia Masawi and were slapped with a 36-month prison term each.

But Masawi later suspended 18 months of their sentence on condition of good behaviour and again suspended the remainder on condition each of them performs 630 hours of community service.

Got that? If you break up your family, you can stay out of prison. Of course, the bigots in the neighborhood are going to have a field day being sadistic towards you anyway, and we won't stop that. Because, you know, you shouldn't be allowed to love each other.
The court was nonetheless, left in stitches when the two relatives insisted they wanted to stay together as a couple despite the implications of their unlawful relationship.
The cruelty is appalling. First cousins have been marrying for all of human history. Everyone involved in prosecuting these two should look into their heart, if they one, and clear it of this hatred.

The other update is about a case out of Nevada in which there was a sentencing a while back. I don't think the media ever specified the relationship, but my guess would be uncle-niece. This update comes from elkodaily.com reported by Dylan Woolf Harris.
Hughes isn’t specifically appealing his conviction, but instead the district court’s decision to allow prosecutors to use evidence gathered during a search of Hughes’ home. Leading up to trial, the defense filed a motion to suppress on grounds that a search warrant request wasn’t supported by probable cause, but District Judge Nancy Porter held that the warrant was supported and the prosecutor’s evidence was permissible.

The investigation and eventual search of Hughes’ home began in late 2008 after Kimberly Harphant, an acquaintance of Hughes, met with sheriff’s detective Kevin McKinney. She brought with her an unsigned, handwritten letter she said she took from Hughes’ home one day, as well as a prepared document of cut-and-pasted emails between Hughes and the victim.

Harphant had helped Hughes set up a business email account to which she remembered the password, and had lent him a phone. She was retrieving the phone when she found the letter, according to court documents.

The letter appeared to indicate romantic love between two people, but “in addition to a complete lack of attribution, it contains no references to a past or existing sexual relationship,” the brief states. Similarly, the emails’ authors were unverified and didn’t mention sex.

The appeal brief asserts McKinney made little attempt to corroborate or verify the items Harphant presented to him.
Interesting.

Friday, January 31, 2014

The Two Main Paths to Consanguinamory

There are two main paths to consanguinamory, or the objective reality that at least two closely biologically related people have sex, and perhaps an ongoing romance or marriage-style relationship. While the prejudiced may dismiss all consanguinamory as the same (in their small minds) inexcusable behavior, the differences in these paths do have an impact on the participants and those around them. This is why people who are on one path may not understand those on the other, or want to be associated with them.

One main path to consanguinamory is Genetic Sexual Attraction (GSA). GSA is an extremely intense attraction that may occur when close biological relatives meet any time after puberty either for the very first time, or the first time since the youngest went through puberty. These situations are likely to increase due to increased human mobility and the high rates of co-parents who do not stay together. Whether a marriage that involved at least one child ends in divorce, or a one night stand results in pregnancy, or anything between, a man and woman who have a child together may go their separate ways, often going on to have more children with others. The situations are are also likely to increase due to increase in the use of donated eggs, sperm, and embryos to have a child. In addition to the various forms of adoptions, some governments, such as some states in the US, allow someone to bring a newborn to a hospital, police station, fire station, etc, and surrender custody of the child with no penalty.

As you can see, there are many situations in which close relatives, such as full or half siblings, or a parent and child, can be reunited post-puberty.



Only some reunification/first contact involves a person experiencing GSA, but some estimates are as high as 50%. Even if there is mutual attraction (both or all, if more than two experiencing GSA), it doesn't always lead to sex. However, GSA is so strong that if it is mutual, it often does lead to sex sooner or later. The sex may not last for any number of reasons. In addition to all of the other reasons people may stop having sex with each other, there are external pressures on such relationships (like criminal law and social disapproval) or a conflicted conscience on the part of one or all involved due to years of sex-police thinking being drilled into their heads.

GSA is almost always a painful path for one reason or another.

Sometimes GSA leads to lasting, happy consanguinamory, but even if any internal pain is a thing of the past, there might be pain from outside interference. That's something I am trying to help change.

With the GSA path, the people usually have established identities and lives in which they are not known as related. For example, half siblings find out about each other in their twenties; the friends and coworkers of one, or both, don't know they are related if they haven't told them. Also, they usually don't have that history of the social connection to their biological roles. They haven't been functioning as brother and sister. A son given up for adoption at birth meets his birth mother twenty years later. He has a mother: the woman who raised him, if she is still alive. Still, someone experiencing GSA may seek to have that familial relationship that would have been expected should there have never been a separation. This is not always possible; it can be very difficult. The history is not there, and nobody can go back to being nine years old; nobody can reverse time.

In GSA relationships, as with any other relationship, it usually takes time for the people get to know each other. Almost always, they find remarkable commonalities.

Those who know of their biological relation may try to break them up or separate them, sometimes by force of law. This can be especially insulting if the person or people trying to douse their love was somewhat responsible for the original situation in the first place. Their actions denied these GSA-experiencers all of the typical parent-child or sibling relationship experiences; after those experiencing GSA have reunited (or met for the first time) and found happiness with each other, this happiness is threatened or taken away.

If the lovers don't want someone else knowing that they are, in fact, lovers, they may be able to use the cover story of making up for lost time with a long-lost relative. (In actuality, an enjoyable consanguinamorous relationship is, in their case, the compensation for that lost time.)

If the sexual aspect of the relationship ends, and does so acrimoniously, the risk includes again losing a long-lost relative. However, if the relationship lasts, it can be a very exciting and fulfilling one.


The other main path to consanguinamory involves close relatives who didn't grow under the separation conditions involved in GSA. This includes cousins (who can legally marry in some places), but it also includes...
-full or half siblings, either raised in the same home or interacting throughout childhood
-parents and their adult children, either with the child raised in the parent's home or with that parent throughout childhood through shared custody or visitation
-aunts/uncles with their nieces/nephews (close in age, or after all are adults)
-grandparents and adult grandchildren.

Cousins and siblings are probably the most common examples of consanguinamory.

On this path, consanguineous sex may begin (and sometimes end) as youthful experimentation between minors who are siblings, cousins, or aunts/uncles with nieces/nephews who are close in age. Sometimes it is more than experimentation, and a full-fledged love affair develops, and may continue into a marriage in everything but (usually) law. Or, it may begin later, at any in their adult life, as young singles or after a divorce or breakup or as seniors.

The consanguinamorous dimension of a relationship, when one person is significantly older than another, such as parent-adult child, may be added at any time after the youngest person reaches the age of majority. This can and does happen without any "grooming." (Grooming and abuse cases are another matter that I'm not addressing here, as I am writing about consensual, loving, healthy relationships.)


Differences from the GSA path include that the lovers have that existing social relationship with the familial context. Consanguinamory on this path builds on that, adding another dimension. Who is more loving, caring, or trustworthy? They already know each other extremely well. Still, there is even greater potential for inner conflict than there is with GSA as one or all of the lovers deals with the notion of "this is wrong," due to years of sex-police thinking being drilled into their heads for no good reason.

Lovers on this path may have had more opportunity to share physical intimacy, but a more difficult time hiding the true reason their demeanor lights up when their (secret) lover walks into the room. However, there is a long tradition of adult siblings or parents and their adult children sharing residence, so if they develop a spousal-type relationship, it can easily be concealed from the finger-waggers with that cover.

If the sexual aspect of the relationship ends, and does so acrimoniously, the risk includes general family disruption. However, if the relationship lasts, it can be extremely intense in a positive way, full of a layered and passionate love.

As I have already said recently, most romantic or sexual relationships don't last; if they did, most of us would still be in our first ones. But they should be allowed to develop and continue, or end, on their own merits, without interference from overbearing law enforcement, bullies, or self-appointed sex police. There are happy, health, lasting consanguinamorous relationships, and I say good for everyone in them. May they continue to share their fun, joy, and love.

Wednesday, January 29, 2014

Zimbabwe Still Prosecuting Consenting Adults

From allafrica.com comes this report of the criminal prosecution of first cousins for the "crime" of loving each other.
Two cousins who were involved in an incestuous relationship which resulted in the birth of a girl and current pregnancy will perform 630 hours of community service. The two's fathers are brothers and traditionally are expected to treat each other as brother and sister. Ashley Feremenga (19) and her cousin Robson Feremenga (21) were living as husband and wife in Dzivaresekwa before neighbours alerted Ashley's father Jonasi.

I wonder what the love lives of those neighbors are like... if they have a love life in the first place. Must not be very fulfilling if they have time to rat people out for loving each other.

I'm sure their child is healthy. Otherwise, you can be sure this report would have noted any problems.
The duo was convicted after their own plea of guilt when they appeared before Harare magistrate Mr Aidonia Masawi who sentenced them to a 36 month-imprisonment term.
What a waste of the court.
Ashley's father Jonasi only came to know about their relationship after being advised by his neighbours.

He filed a police report leading to their arrest.
Rat. The lovers should keep his grandchildren away from him.

Fortunately, very few US states have ridiculous laws criminalizing consensual sex between first cousins. About half of US states will legally marry first cousins, and such marriages are common in many countries today, and have been very common throughout history. Prosecuting consenting adults for loving each other is outrageous.

Tuesday, January 28, 2014

Another Marriage Denied Equality

By my count, this is the thirtieth ongoing relationship I've covered through exclusive interviews in which the lovers are denied the freedom to be open about their love and are denied their fundamental right to marry.

Chelsea is a bright young woman, legally free to marry a complete stranger. But she can't legally marry the man she is living with as husband and wife.

Read the interview below and ask yourself if there is one good reason these two consenting adults should be denied their right to marry. THIS INTERVIEW DOES GET SOMEWHAT SEXUALLY EXPLICIT.


*****


FULL MARRIAGE EQUALITY: Describe your background.

Chelsea: I am a college graduate at a major Texas University and majored in Business Administration and currently reside just outside of Dallas, with my father. I currently work for him in a manufacturing plant in an adviser capacity. I am 26 years old and originally from Oklahoma. Most of my family ties and friends from school still reside there. I have some English, Irish and a bit of Spanish in my blood. I am about 5 feet 9 inches and weigh about 145 lbs last time I weighed myself.  I am a big-boned girl, so I will never be considered petite.  I love to eat, so it is always a battle to keep my weight down. I topped off at about 165 lbs periodically in my life, so far.  I have medium brown hair but sometimes have dyed it black.

I have one older brother.

My mom divorced dad when I was much younger and lives near Oklahoma City with her husband. I have sporadic contact with them.

I like bowling, hiking and volleyball. I also love to travel, usually on business trips with my dad. I love to sing, but will never make it as the next American Idol, but do belt out a few songs on karaoke night at local clubs.

Anonymous Dad: She is a lot to love and I love her a lot!  She is smart, witty but can't sing worth a lick, but then again I am no Frank Sinatra either.




FME: Are you married or have you ever been married?

Chelsea: I have never been married to an unrelated man. But I am 'married' to my father. Of course,  we could not have a nice, big church wedding with friends and family invited to attend nor have the big reception and the cutting of the cake and throwing out the garter and all of that. I have my regrets of not being fitted for a lavish wedding dress and having matching bridesmaids to accompany me. But dad and I had a little ceremony of our own with my brother in attendance and we exchanged our own special vows and my father bought me a ring. My father refuses to tell me exactly how much it cost him. I plan on wearing that ring until the day I die.

Father: Let's just say that I spent more on this ring then I did for her mother’s. And in a better, more tolerant world, I would have loved for her to have a wedding for the ages, one that will be forever memorable for her, and us. But she is still happy with how things turned out and her happiness is all that matters to me.


FME: How would you describe your sexual orientation and your relationship orientation... are you heterosexual, bisexual, what? Are you a monogamist, polygamist, or....?

Chelsea: I am mostly straight, but did experiment with a female on a couple of occasions in high school as well as in college. Mostly kissing and hugging but I did go down on my college roommate a couple of times and she on me. Dad knows about it but I never gave him a “show.” I think he would have liked that. I think most guys would. After mom divorced my father,  I was the only female left in the house so it was myself, dad and brother. Would I have sex with a woman again? I probably wouldn't shy away from the opportunity but for now am quite happy with being married to my father and plan on being with him for life.

Father: I am an advocate of lesbianism and give them my full support!  Would 'I' have sex with another woman again?  Not as long as I have my sexy daughter as my partner.   


FME: You currently live with… ?

Chelsea: My father. It is just the two of us in a nice house at the end of a quiet cul-de-sac.  There are two houses within 50 yards of our home and the neighbors think we are just a couple that is in a May-December relationship. They have no idea that we are father and daughter and for now, we have no plans on telling them.


FME: What kind of relationship did you have while you were growing up?

Chelsea: I was always daddy's little girl and some days, my father still treats me that way. He was my first crush when I was in middle school and my feelings have never wavered. He has always been there for me to dry away my tears, fix my boo boos on my scraped knees or cut fingers.

Mom seemed to be too busy with her hobbies, her own job and her circle of friends. Mom left dad just before I turned 13.

We all pulled together as a team, to make the household work. My father was a little despondent at first, because he never really intended to see his wife go. They had grown apart due to not being together that often.  Mom was always preoccupied with her own world of friends and was always out and about in her job as a bank officer for a major financial institution. Dad became Mr. Mom.

I was on the cusp of puberty and transforming from little girl to young woman. It was scary, exciting and confusing all at the same time for both me and dad. Sometimes I would come home from a bad day at school because of a fight with a girl over a boy or because I showed interest in a boy and he didn't return that interest. Dad would do all he could to comfort me and assure me that things will be alright and to not let things get me down. There is always another day, another tomorrow. I enjoyed those times with my father from the beginning.

Father: Chelsea would side with me for most arguments that I had with my wife. I could do no wrong, even though that wasn't really true. I am no angel; nobody is perfect. But I always tried to look at the practical side of things. I remember disciplining her.


FME: How did sexual affection become a part of your relationship?

Chelsea: His hugs and kisses were always reassuring.  I loved him so much. As I aged, those kisses became a little more intense. Not just a peck on the forehead or cheek, but a kiss on the lips started to become more of the open mouth variety until one day our tongues met. I never thought it would become a prelude to having sex with my father at the time, but later dad did admit that those early kisses did excite him greatly.

Father:  She was and is always an attractive daughter. Secretly, I DID long for her but fought the urges for the good of the family unit. After all, she had had to finish growing up without her mother there.

Chelsea: Some of the kissing was done in various stages of undress. Dad, my brother and I didn't always keep our doors closed, so we would have fleeting glimpses of our bodies. One night before bedtime, my brother peeked in on us. Dad was kissing me not just on the lips, but also on my neck and moved to my upper chest. Natural, human instincts were taking over and my father deftly opened my nightgown, exposing my breasts. I moved dad's head down to them and closed my eyes. Or breathing grew short and shallow. We had reached a threshold that had no point of return. He continued to touch and tongue my breasts and tt felt amazing. My dad was the first male to make love to my breasts.  In fact, dad was the first male I did anything and everything with sexually.  My brother was enjoying the show of course and pleaded with me later on to do it with him.

Father: It was quite an event, that first time. I was a little concerned that it would backfire, and that I would lose the trust of my daughter. I patiently waited for when I thought the time was right. I must admit I fought my own urges to seduce her because she was so young and vulnerable. She is my daughter, for goodness sake! A few months later, my son started to join in. He’s two years older than her and there was no reason to leave him out.


FME: How do you describe the lovemaking now?

Chelsea: Fantastic!  Dad and I pretty much do it all sexually. The sex with my father always seemed natural. Our sexual liaisons were a perfect fit.  No pun intended.  Dad, brother and I enjoyed each other sexually without any reservations. We all benefited.  I enjoyed orally servicing them, many times at the same time. They always returned the favor.

I went on the obligatory dates so that people wouldn't 'talk', because I had two, at home “boyfriends” in my father and brother. I sucked a c--- or two just to keep things quiet among the guys I did go out with but most of the oral sex, I performed on my dad and big brother.

We enjoyed kinky threesomes for quite a few years.  It has just recently ended with my older brother.  He found himself a nice lady and has moved several miles away due to his employment situation, so it is now just me and my father enjoying each other's company and bodies. To my dad and I, nothing is too kinky or off-limits. We have f---ed in just about every position there is. Dad is a big man. 6 foot 2 inches and about 240 lbs. He has been able to handle my sometimes 160 lbs with ease. As I mentioned earlier,  I am around 145 lbs right now but I don't think I can lose too much more. What I am getting at is when dad has intercourse with me, while he is standing up and holding me up in the air. It is crazy wild sex!  We have also tried bondage and other kinky activities and have performed role play.  A lot of times I will call him 'daddy' when we are having sex. A truer word has never been spoken!

Sometimes, we just have time for a little quickie in the morning before we leave for work.  I will suck my father off so as to get him in the right frame of mind and ease any tensions he may have for the upcoming work day. Besides, I certainly don't mind having my dad for “breakfast.”  During the week our schedules don't always permit full-fledged sexual activity. At night, we just go to bed, naked under the covers and kiss each other until we fall asleep. The weekends are a whole other story.  Saturdays, Sundays and Holidays are our best times.  Especially Sunday morning. Oftentimes dad and I won't get out of bed or the bathroom until noontime! We aren't really religious types, even though we are both Catholic. So we have missed quite a few Masses.  But we never miss on the opportunity to worship each other's bodies. 

Father: I can safely say, that my daughter is my Viagra.  She keeps me running young.  Sometimes she wears me out,  but it is the best kind of weary a man can experience and always leaves a smile on my face. We’ll view online porn and try things we see.


FME: Describe your relationship now.

Chelsea: We are man and wife in our eyes now.  We’ve long been a couple, but did have our brother joining us whenever he could. But he understood that dad is my husband and I am dad's wife.  He has been quite excited and supportive of the arrangement all this time. It is up to my brother whether or not he rejoins us. Dad and I will always accept him in our fold. If he returned today, we would welcome him and have at it like we used to.  I really liked having both dad and my brother in me or me servicing them at the same time and would do it again in a heartbeat.

There are still days where dad and I will argue a point as father and daughter, but for the most part, we behave just like any other normal married couple. The roles have gradually developed into dad just being the loving husband and me, the loving wife. But our blood relationship is always in the back of our minds.

We have no children - yet.  I am 26 years-old, so my biological clock still has quite a few ticks in it. I would love to get pregnant with my father's baby.  It would complete our incestuous coupling and seal us together, forever.  We have discussed it. We may try to have a child together, soon. My father and I are not overly concerned about the ramifications of our DNA being the same. We are certain that the baby would be healthy and don't buy into the hype that he or she would be defective physically or mentally.


FME: Does anyone in your life know the full, true nature/history of your relationship and how did they find out? What kind of steps, if any, have you had to take to keep your privacy?

Chelsea: Other than my brother, my best girlfriend from high school knows about us.  I have spoken with her over the telephone and we have shared emails over the years.  My mom suspects something is going on because of the few times I have talked to her by telephone she knows that I have not legally married nor has dad legally remarried. Of course, the longer our absence, the more people and relatives will speculate as to where dad and I have disappeared to. My paternal grandfather is aware. We did move a few hundred miles from our immediate neighborhood so as not to arouse suspicion or confrontation. We don't want to flaunt our incestuous union. In a more perfect world, incest could and would be accepted throughout the world! Out here in Texas, nobody knows that we are father and daughter, so we can go to a park and kiss and hug, or hold hands  or have our arms around each other or on our shoulders while shopping at a mall or being intimate at a nice quiet restaurant without fear of being recognized and discovered for who we are.

Father: I confessed to my father awhile back ago after much prodding. He has kept mum about it also and just told me to keep things under wraps. I assured him that I love [her] and would never do anything to hurt her or force her into doing anything against her will.  He is the one that suggested that the best thing for us to do is to move away from the immediate area so as to fend off the naysayers and protesters out there, including other family members like some of the conservative aunts and uncles that would most likely wish that we “burn in hell.”  Dad and I correspond by phone and email to keep abreast of other family developments however.


FME: Having to hide the full nature of your relationship from some people can be a disadvantage. Can you describe how that has been?

Chelsea: For that reason, family reunions are out of the question. That is really the only big “con” in the pros and cons of our incestuous relationship. We are missing out on milestones such as cousins, nephews and nieces birthdays as well as the occasional wedding. That is the biggest disadvantage. Other than that major element,  my father and I are quite happy with the love affair that has grown and blossomed.  It has been said that a girl looks for a mate that is a lot like her father. In my case, my mate is my father and I wouldn't want it any other way and neither does my dad.


FME: What do you want to say to people who disapprove of your relationship, or disapprove of anyone having this kind of relationship? What's your reply to those who would say that this is one of you preying on the other and that you can’t truly consent?

Chelsea: Fortunately, my father and I have not had that confrontation as of this day. To them I would say, who are you to judge?  What about those who are married and get divorced, or how about those that abuse their spouses? Wife beaters,  even wife killers?   How about those who abuse or mistreat their children? Do they disapprove of that? My father and I are in a loving relationship that knows no limits. We have had our arguments, we have raised our voices over finances, clothes, maintenance on the car, leaving dirty dishes in the sink, etc. That is normal. But at no time has dad abused or taken advantage of me. I wanted this relationship from the beginning and so did dad. We have treated each other with dignity and respect and if and when we raise a family, we will bring our children up with unrestricted love and caring. Isn't that what life is all about?

Father: Everything with my daughter just fell into place. There was a natural progression to our sexual activity. I never took advantage of her, abused her, nor raped her. It was all a result of loving and gentle kindness. Nothing ever forced or coerced.  The word 'No' was as powerful then as it is now.


FME: Aside from the law, which I think is ridiculous, can you think of anything that would make relationships like this inherently wrong?

Chealsea: Yes, we are related, yes we of the same flesh and blood, but if we behave and live in a loving and cherished manner, what is so “inherently wrong” about that?  Besides, it is none of their business!  I would rather go to jail instead of separating myself from my father's strong arms and his warm embrace.


FME: If you could get legally married, and that included protections against discrimination, harassment, etc., would you?

Chelsea: As I mentioned before, I would absolutely love to become legally married to my father - my biological father. Yes world, my own biological father! I would be a blushing bride, but a proud one also - proud to be my father's legal wife and some day the mother of his children!

Father: If consensual incest were legal and totally accepted by society, instead of walking down the aisle with my daughter to give her up to another man,  I would be the proud groom,  waiting for someone to give her - to me - and ready to take my daughter's hand in marriage - to me.


FME: What advice do you have for someone who may be experiencing feelings for a father or daughter, or some other relative? What advice do you have for family members and friends who think or know that relatives they know are having these feelings for each other?

Chelsea: Explore those feelings. Drop hints here and there. Be subtle about it. Wait for the proper reaction. Display patience. Don't just go up to that relative and say “I want to jump your bones!” If, after some time, perhaps even a year or two, the feeling isn't reciprocated in any way, then it is time to move on. You don't want to miss a signal or a cue that is the exact opposite of what you hoped for. That could lead to an embarrassing situation that could be hard to extract yourself from. If the feelings of sexual attraction are mutual, by all means, be honest with each other. Set the ground rules as to what is expected and progress from there. Communications goes a long way

As for those who think or know of relatives that have a physical attraction to each other, as long as it is consensual and they are both of legal age, I say leave them be. Don't meddle in other people's affairs, be it they are relatives or not. Unless it directly affects you, stay out of it. The only time you should become involved is if you know someone is being mistreated or abused. Even then, that could be difficult.  


FME: What would you say to someone who doesn't believe you are for real?

Chelsea: They should read up on just how common and real incest is. Father/daughter, brother/sister, etc. It is more widespread than many of those doubters think and dates back to ancient times. Royal families used to engage in incestuous practices to keep the blood line pure. If they think that incest does not exist, then they are in denial, or living under a rock. Or they are fearful of the unknown, because incest is not part of their every day life. And incest will thrive and flourish as long as humans continue to roam the earth. As long as people interact together, depending on the functions or dysfunctions of the family structures, incest will be an alternative and/or a solution and remain prevalent in our society. 


FME: Have you met in-person or do you know anyone else who has experience with consanguineous sex or consanguinamory?

Chelsea: I have corresponded with a young woman that has had sexual trysts with her father.  They occurred when she was in college at the same school that I attended. She is now married and has a child with another man. I met her one time, when I was a Senior in college. It was a relief to unburden myself to someone that was not from my neighborhood, that had no family or friendly ties to my community. She opened up to me also. Alas, I haven't heard from her in a few months, but had been keeping in touch via email.

I haven't met in person another father/daughter couple but have encountered couples that look like they are dad and daughter, but don't know for sure. I see couples like this wherever I go; be it the shopping mall, supermarket, movie theater, restaurant and wonder to myself… Are they, could they?  Or am I the only one living as a “married” woman to my own father? I think not, but just haven't actually met with and sat down with a true, father and daughter that are in a similar arrangement as dad and I are. I hope to someday! I do have a limited few online contacts that I chat with or email on occasion that seem to be along the same lines as myself with children also.


FME: Any plans for the future?

Chelsea: Continuing to have sex with my father as long as we see fit, both mentally and physically.  Also, as mentioned earlier, try for a child and a family.  That would be wonderful! 

Father:  I just hope Chelsea still wants me when I am old and grey.

Chelsea: Of course I will daddy! I am your girl, always!


*****

There you have it. Consenting adults who aren't hurting anyone, but are denied their freedom to marry.

Why should they be denied their rights? There’s no good reason.We need to recognize that all adults should be free to be with any and all consenting adults as they mutually consent, and part of doing that is adopting relationship rights for all, including full marriage equality sooner rather than later. People are being hurt because of a denial of their basic human rights to love each other freely.

You can read other interviews I have done here.

If you are in a relationship like this and are looking for help or others you can talk with, read this.

Thank you to Chelsea and her hubby for doing this interview!

Categories