Showing posts with label polyamory. Show all posts
Showing posts with label polyamory. Show all posts

Monday, March 3, 2014

An Example of the Benefit of Nonmonogamy in Nature

I am polyamorous, but not one of those polyamorists who say everyone else should be polyamorous, too. When I say I support the rights of consenting adults, that includes the freedom to be monogamous or celibate. And, as I always say, just because something is found in another species, it doesn't automatically apply to humans. With those things out of the way, I wanted to note Carl Zimmer's report at nytimes.com that flies forced into monogamy apparently lose learning ability.
Forcing male flies into monogamy has a startling effect: After a few dozen generations, the flies become worse at learning.

This discovery, published on Wednesday in the Proceedings of the Royal Society, isn’t a biological excuse for men who have strayed from their significant other. Instead, it’s a tantalizing clue about why intelligence evolved.

The new study was carried out by Brian Hollis and Tadeusz J. Kawecki, biologists at the University of Lausanne in Switzerland. They investigated a fly species called Drosophila melanogaster that normally has a very un-monogamous way of life.
I do think it causes all sorts of problems to try to force a polyamorous person into monogamy. Human history has shown that over and over again. Also, many polyamorous people will tell you that living out polyamory has made them better people and taught them much.

Tuesday, February 25, 2014

Is Being Poly Genetic?


The Ferrett addresses, “Polyamory Genetic? Is Homosexuality Genetic?”

My thoughts on a genetic polyamory link are the exact same as my thoughts on a genetic homosexual link:

I don’t care.

Right! We have many things, including the technology I’m using to write this and you are using to read this, which are not part of our genetics. What difference does it make? See Discredited Argument #5.

Even if the gays were, as some suggest, all conspiring in one big plot to annoy us fine-thinking straight people, wincing as they sucked distasteful d--- and reluctantly chowed p---y out of some misplaced form of rebellion, it should still be allowed.

The truth is, gay sex is between consenting adults, and it hurts no one but those adults – there are way more deadly car accidents caused by beers than queers. You may consider gayness to be a bad choice, but two people should be free to make bad choices together. And what people want to do for fun in their private life is something that should be allowed, no matter how distasteful it may be to me.

Agreed. See Discredited Argument #1.



We often get caught up in the “nature vs. nurture” aspect of gay and transgender issues, forgetting that this is playing to the conservative bent. What’s important is that people all over the world should have the freedom to live their lives as they see fit assuming they’re not actively harming anyone, and as such Teh Gay Should Be Okay.

So is gay genetically disposed? I say probably, but it doesn’t make a damn bit of difference.

Getting to polyamory…

I’m sure there are tendencies genetically towards certain aspects that encourage polyamory, but polyamory is such a complex term, encompassing so many styles of relationships, that I don’t think a single set of genes could really cover it.

I think we have enough evidence that some people are not monogamous; it goes against their nature, whether being polyamorous can be found in their genes or not.

But it’s irrelevant. I’ve heard it said that after gay marriage gets settled, they’ll be coming after the polyamorous relationships next.

We can only hope. Actually, I’d like to see it all settled at the same time; full marriage equality.

Miranda commented…

For people questioning their identity, I can see how it would be helpful to know that this is what is natural for you. But do we have to use it to justify ourselves with the opposition? I’d rather not anyway.

Yes. It doesn’t matter if someone is turned off by something, or thinks it is harmful to the lovers. An adult should not need to get permission from some politician to be who she or he is and love the person(s) she or he does in the ways to which they mutually consent. An adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race, or religion, should be free to share love, sex, residence, and marriage with any and all consenting adults, without prosecution, persecution, and discrimination.



Is polyamory natural Is polyamory genetic Is being polyamorous natural Is being polyamorous genetic Is polygamy natural

Wednesday, February 19, 2014

Bus Sighting at Media Matters

Luke Brinker at mediamatters.org, in responding to an anti-equality column by twice-divorced-now-in-third-marriage radio talk show host and author, Dennis Prager, threw polyamorous and consanguinamorous people under the bus.
Prager's prediction dovetails with those of other marriage equality opponents who similarly suggest that necrophilia and bestiality might become commonly accepted practices if gay couples are allowed to marry. But in the 10 years since Massachusetts became the first state to legalize marriage equality, there hasn't been a rush to legalize polygamous unions. Meanwhile, most states that allow incestuous marriages are right-leaning states where same-sex marriage currently isn't allowed.
As Slate's Dahlia Lithwick has observed, the problem with "slippery slope" arguments of the kind advanced by Prager is that they ignore the deep differences between allowing a committed, loving same-sex couple to get married and permitting, say, a brother and sister to get married. Incestuous relationships, Lithwick notes, are often exploitative and psychologically destructive, with severe consequences for children's health.

Here is how I responded in the comments (with links added here for further reading)...
 
The response to bigots when they bring up polygamy and consanguinamory is "What's wrong with letting consenting adults marry?" Please note that under our broad legal systems, corpses and other species (necrophilia and bestiality) are not considered consenting adults. However, a consenting adult might want to marry more than one person, or marry a close relative. When (white) women got the right to vote, there wasn't a rush for voting rights for people of color, and when Loving v. Virginia knocked down bans on monogamous interracial marriages, there wasn't a rush to grant to same-gender freedom to marry, but there should have been.

It is unfair to say that incestuous relationships are often exploitative and psychology destructive. That is ABUSIVE relationships in general, which can include complete strangers and interracial couples same-gender couples. Also, it is the abusive relationships that tend to come to the attention of law enforcement and counselors. Nobody in a good relationship is calling up a shrink or law enforcement and saying, "Hey, I just want to tell you I'm in an incestuous relationship and it is great!"

The "mutant baby" argument is a smokescreen. First of all, some consanguinamorous relationships involve only people of the same gender. Yes, they are gay marriages, so to speak. I have interviewed people in these relationships myself. Secondly, marriage shouldn't be equated with baby-making. Not all mixed-gender relationships birth biological children. Thirdly, contrary to myth, most births to consanguineous parents do not produce children with significant birth defects or other genetic problems (I know some of these children, and so do you, whether you know it or not); while births to
other parents do sometimes have birth defects. Heterosexual couples with obvious, series genetic diseases are not prevented from dating, having sex, having children, or marrying, so the "mutant baby" argument is not a justification for stopping genetic half-sisters who didn't even grow up with each other from marrying.

I expect more from Media Matters than to throw some consenting adults under the bus to assuage bigots. There is no good reason to deny that we must keep evolving until an adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, monogamy or polyamory, race, or religion is free to marry any and all consenting adults. The limited same-gender freedom to marry is a great and historic step, but is NOT full marriage equality, because equality "just for some" is not equality. Let's stand up for EVERY ADULT'S right to marry the person(s) they love. Get on the right side of history!

Friday, February 14, 2014

Polyamory as a Sexual Orientation


I'm bumping this up because Facebook has, thankfully, moved beyond the gender binary. That is a great step. Facebook should become more accommodating of relationship diversities as well.o

Ann E Tweedy of the Hamline University School of Law has this paper available for download on polyamory as a sexual orientation. Here's what the abstract says...
This Article examines, from a theoretical standpoint, the possibility of expanding the definition of “sexual orientation” in employment discrimination statutes to include other disfavored sexual preferences, specifically polyamory. First, it examines the current, very narrow definition of sexual orientation, which is limited to orientations that are based on the sex of those to whom one is attracted, and explores some of the conceptual and functional problems with the current definition. Next the Article looks at the possibility of adding polyamory to current statutory definitions of sexual orientation, examining whether polyamory is a sufficiently embedded identity to be considered a sexual orientation and the degree of discrimination that polyamorists face. After concluding that such an expansion would be reasonable, the Article briefly outlines some issues for further investigation, including potential policy implications and the conflicting evidence as to whether polyamorists want specific legal protections.
We have previously discussed the expansion of the acronymn LGBT. Personally, I think a useful inclusive term is gender, sexuality, and relationship diversities (GSRD). Isn't it obvious from thousands of years of human history that some people are polyamorous, just like they are left-handed or heterosexual. Even if they are seeing only one person, or nobody at all, some people simply are polyamorous as part of their identity. Some people couldn't be monogamous under the threat of ostracism, shaming, loss of employment, loss of marriage, loss of child custody, loss of their wealth, etc. Trying to force people into monogamy is hurtful to all involved.

Yes, there are people who have been comfortable and fulfilled in monogamous or polyamorous relationships, but that doesn't mean that there aren't people who are polyamorous, just like the existence of bisexuals does not mean that there are no heterosexuals or gays.

Poly people should be as free as anyone else to share love, sex, residence, and, if they want, marriage with any and all consenting adults, without prosecution, bullying, or discrimination. That's why we need full marriage equality and why the US Supreme Court needs to rule for the rights of all adults.


Saturday, February 8, 2014

How Nonmonogamous People Can Avoid Trouble


Believe it or not, there are still criminal laws in many places criminalizing consensual sex and relationships between adults.

It doesn't matter to them how loving, happy, and lasting the relationships are. It apparently doesn't matter to the people interfering that every dollar or minute they spend trying to stop consenting adults from loving each other is a dollar or minute that could instead go into protecting people, especially children, against predators.

In addition to the persecution and prosecution of consanguinamorous people, polyamorists, polygamists, and other ethical nonmonogamists can face discrimination and even prosecution.
Some awesome people put together a very helpful lists of state laws for polyamorous people in the US or considering moving to the US. First, note the disclaimer that there is an ever-present at the bottom of this blog. I'll mostly repeat it here:

The focus of this blog is consenting adults. This blog does not advocate anyone engage in activity that is currently illegal in their jurisdiction; it does advocate changing or repealing any law that prevents the freedom of association, love, and full marriage equality for adults. This blog condemns rape, sexual assault, and child molestation, and does not provide medical, therapeutic, legal, financial, or cooking advice. This blog links to other sites for informational purposes; it does not necessarily support everything at those links.
OK, with that out of the way, I'll continue as a friend.


Please keep in mind that while a state may not have a law against "fornication" (sex outside of a legal marriage), "adultery" (when a married person has sex with someone other than her or his legal spouse), or cohabitation, it might still criminalize consensual sex between close relatives (whether genetically related, steprelation, or adoptive). For more information about that, see here. Also, laws on the books may be rarely or selectively enforced, so it it s good to consult an attorney familiar with the laws of a state as well as actual criminal and civil cases in that state and general legal climate.

While most nonmonogamists never get prosecuted or sued, the threat is always there in many places.

With states that allow a legally married spouse to get an advantage in a divorce by citing adultery or sue their spouse's lover for financial compensation, the only way to be sure of avoiding a problem is to simply avoid the risk entirely by not getting involved with someone who is legally married, or, if you are legally married, not getting involved with anyone other than your spouse. Even if everyone is enthusiastic at first or at the time of the sex or relationship, someone can still use the law to get what they see as revenge should things tum cold.

State By State


All 50 US states have statutes against bigamy/polygamy (multiple licensed marriages). In most states, bigamy is a felony.

In the following states, bigamy is a misdemeanor. However, once the penalty is paid, you are back at square one.

Alaska
Arkansas
Hawaii (petty misdemeanor-- 30 days in jail)
Iowa
Maine
Missouri
Montana
Nebraska
New Jersey
Ohio
Pennsylvania
Rhode Island (misdemeanor, $1000)
Tennessee
Texas

The following lists are ordered by which states have the most promise statutorily. The first list is the best, the last list is the worst.

The following states, have no statutes against  fornication, adultery, or cohabitation, and they also do not recognize common-law marriages (which assigns marital status to people who might not want to be considered married).

California
Hawaii
Nevada
Oregon
Washington

The following states have statutes that concern adultery, but none for fornication, cohabitation, or common-law marriage. In some of them adultery is grounds for divorce only. In others the offending spouse simply forfeits any rights to the innocent spouse's estate. In the rest of them, adultery is a crime that can only be prosecuted by the offended spouse. In a successful polygamous relationship, these need not be obstructive. If the relationship fails, however, the statutory adulterer will be charged.

Connecticut
Delaware
Indiana
Kentucky
Louisiana
Maine
Maryland (Adultery results in a $10 fine and is grounds for divorce)
Missouri
New Jersey
Ohio
South Dakota
Tennessee
Texas (Texas does recognize common-law marriages, but apparently only if they are registered with the county clerk)
Vermont

Both states make adultery and fornication misdemeanors, although in Illinois the conduct must be "open and notorious." For interest's sake, we have listed all of the states whose statutes are no worse than Georgia or Illinois. This only means that in these states you are as likely as not, to be able to find a lawyer who will talk to you.

Arizona
Georgia
Illinois
Michigan
Minnesota
New Hampshire (New Hampshire recognizes common-law marriages, but only for inheritance purposes after death)
New Mexico
New York
North Dakota

The following states have laws against cohabitation.

Alabama
Alaska
Arkansas
Florida
Massachusetts
Mississippi
Nebraska
North Carolina
South Carolina
Virginia
West Virginia
Wyoming

The following states recognize common-law marriages, or else make adultery a felony, and are not on the previous lists.

Colorado
Idaho
Iowa
Kansas
Montana
Oklahoma
Pennsylvania
Rhode Island
Utah
Washington D.C.
Wisconsin

How do people minimize the risk of losing in court? What can nonmonogamists do to protect themselves? Any of these steps might help...

1) Consult a lawyer. I am not a lawyer. A criminal defense or family law attorney might be someone well worth consulting.

2) Move to more enlightened states or countries.

3) Be careful who you tell and what you tell them. In the US, we have a Constitutional right against self-incrimination (see 5th Amendment) and the right to remain silent when arrested by law enforcement. It's a good idea when dealing with police to give them polite, brief "yes" or "no" or "I don't know" or "I don't remember" answers unless even one of those could incriminate you. In the US, you also have the right to an attorney and it is a good idea speak up and ask for a lawyer if you're held or taken in by police. Also in the US, unless there is imminent danger to someone, you don't have the let police into your home without a search warrant, and even search warrants can have limits. YOU may think something is obvious and gives you away, the police may even have figured it out, but staying silent about it can still protect you.

4) Be careful what you document. Many lovers enjoy taking video or pictures of themselves having fun with each other, but for the nonmonogamous, such media, if it falls into the wrong hands, can be trouble.

5) Have a cover story. Anticipate questions, whether from those you know you or those who don't who might not approve. Historically, it isn't unusual for a home to have three or more adults.

6) Know your risk in raising children. Not only will children have to deal with the prejudice of others, but children may also provide testimony that goes against you, often unwittingly.

7) Stick to private places and lock the door when you get to the fun.


Note that most ethicists say it is OK to lie to authorities who are trying to enforce unjust laws or policies. An extreme example is a Nazi SS officer asking you, "Are you hiding any Jews here?" It was ethical to say "No." Well, I think that applies here, too, though the situation is not as extreme. It is nobody else's business if adults are having consensual sex or relationships.

This advice shouldn't even be necessary, but until we get to the point where we have relationship rights for all adults, including full marriage equality, nonmonogamists should think about protecting themselves. Of course, some level of trouble is necessary to make change. Laws need to be overturned in courts or changed by legislatures, but it is up to each set of lovers to decide for themselves if they want to come out of the closet and to push for those things. The more other people realize that ethical nonomonogamy is a reality all around them, the sooner the persecution will be greatly reduced.

Police officers usually have some wiggle-room when it comes to investigating or arresting people can can look the other way if they choose. Prosecutors can choose not to prosecute. Judges can dismiss cases. Juries can refuse to convict (research jury nullification). So I beg these people to let consenting adults love each other without harassment, without prosecution.

Do you have any suggestions? Any tales to tell about what you've done to protect yourself? What do you think, dear reader? Leave a comment or email me.

Wednesday, February 5, 2014

Will Utah Make Legislative Baby Steps?

After a federal judge did what should have been a no-brainer to everyone and slapped down Utah's criminalization of polyfidelity and polyamorous cohabitation, a state legislator is trying to make baby steps in the law, as reported by Antone Clark at standard.net...
Rep. Jerry Anderson, R-Price, said House Bill 56 was inspired by a federal judge's ruling in December striking down part of the state's law banning polygamy, following legal action brought by the stars of a TV reality series "Sister Wives." The court ruling threw out the state's section of law prohibiting cohabitation, saying it violates the constitutional guarantee of due process and religious freedom.

Not to mention freedom of association, right to privacy, etc.
His bill is only 29 lines long, and essentially changes the definition of cohabitation and then points out under existing law, bigamy is a third-degree felony.
Bigamy shouldn't be a crime unless it involves fraud. An adult should be free to marry any & all consenting adults. If someone is married and they are marrying another, that shouldn't be hidden from current spouses. Absent that sort of deception, there's no reason for polyamorists to be denied their fundamental rights.
He said the state's existing bigamy definition forces many people into the shadows. He said thousands of schoolchildren list their fathers as unknown, to avoid dealing with the implications of being in violation of the law.

He said the state's existing definition of bigamy puts police officers in a tough position.
Exactly. Criminalization of consensual adult relationships is destructive, causing many unnecessary problems.

This is a baby step. Really, any US state needs relationship rights, including full marriage equality, for all.

UPDATE: The bill is "dead" as the lawmakers sit around waiting for further court action. Sigh.

Sunday, February 2, 2014

What Comes Naturally

Colleen Stufflebeem looks at the emotions that often result from the body’s physical reaction to sex. Early in her essay, she writes…

I’m not too cliché, but the idea of romance has always wooed me, though the necessity of love before sex never equated to waiting until marriage. In fact, I’ve always thought that’s a terrible idea.

Towards the end she writes…

But while this evidence proves that casual sex can cause heartbreak and mysterious genital burning, it also proves that humans are naturally inclined to fall in love and lust with multiple people. If we have the natural tendency to be polyamorous why impose unnatural sanctions against it?

First, I’d like to point out that any sex can cause heartbreak and mysterious genital burning. Aren’t many people heartbroken with the end of a serious relationship, in no small part because they were having sex? And a sexually transmitted infection can happen through sex, especially unprotected sex, with someone who is already infected, no matter how serious the relationship. Someone could have “casual” sex with a hundred people, and if none of them are infected, that person will not get infected.

But the other thing I wanted to get to was that, no, we should not impose unnatural sanctions against relationships. It is natural for a gay man to be attracted to, and love, other men. It is natural for a polyamorous person to love more than one person. This is why we should not use laws to reserve sex or marriage for only two people, or only heterosexuals couples.

Thursday, January 30, 2014

Rinella on Rights

The brilliant, talented, and lovely author Diane Rinella has just blogged about why we deny people their rights.
We don’t deny people their rights because we want to, we do it because they are in situations that either we don’t understand or can’t comprehend. We all know of the struggles that homosexuals have faced to gain the right to marry and be treated as equals. Every day we see it on the news and we experience it with our friends. Therefore, it is very easy to analyze the subject. However, what if the situation is something that you don’t think about? It’s a type of relationship that is happening around you, yet you’re completely unaware of it because those involved are living in shadows. The truth is, not only do you know people who are or have been involved in relationships you can’t fathom, you also know people who are being denied of their rights.
Go read the whole thing. Please!

Monday, January 27, 2014

Request For Polyamorous People

The more books we have like this, the better, so please consider responding. Here is the request...
My name is Richard Gilmore. I am a member of a MFFM quad. We have been in this configuration for over 13 years. My partner Elon and I have written a book called, Creating A Line Family. Our editor (Alan of Poly in the Media) made a good suggestion, include personal stories. So what we are looking for are interview volunteers who are members of a poly family. Here are some of the questions we would like to hear about.

1. What types of intimacies - besides sexual - do you share with your partners?

2. What vision, or long range plans do you have for your family?

3. How are household chores managed, both regular duties and emergent failures?

4. How is "family money handled?" By this we are talking about real property ownership, investments, community personal property, etc.

5. How will you support launching any children?

6. How do you make decisions as a group?

7. Do you plan, or have any family businesses?

8. Do any other issues come to mind?

You can see an early, rough draft of the book at http://www.line-family.info/
We really need personal stories to make the book come alive. Funny stories are great, stories of failures can also be instructive.

All names, locations and personally identifying details will be changed to protect everyone's privacy.

The book price will be as low as we can make it. We really want this information out there. Therefore we expect to make little to no money on this publication. That means all we can offer you is our sincere thanks and maybe a signed copy of the book.

Please message me to arrange an interview.

Thank you for taking time to read and consider our request.
Richard

Richard can be reached at rlg at 4dreality dot com.

I will add whether or not you contact Richard, if you want to be interviewed by me (see this interview I have done), pleas write me at fullmarriageequality at yahoo dot com.

Wednesday, January 22, 2014

19 Responses to Anti-Polyamory

Much thanks to MultipleMatch.com for running my defense of ethical nonmonogamy, such as polyamory, polygamy, and so on.

Click here to read "19 Responses for Answering Anti-Polyamory & Plural Marriage"

Bumped up.

Friday, January 17, 2014

A Polyamorous Woman Denied Her Right to Marry


By my count, this is the twenty-ninth ongoing relationship I've covered through exclusive interviews in which the lovers are denied the freedom to be open about their love and are denied their fundamental right to marry.

Zoey is a beautiful young woman, someone you might give a nod and smile to if you saw her shopping in your local store. If you want to see her NOT SAFE FOR WORK Tumblr, you can find it here.


Read the interview below and ask yourself if there is one good reason her right to love the adults she does should be denied.


*****


FULL MARRIAGE EQUALITY: Describe your background.

Zoey: I am almost 23. I am in a type of polyamory/open relationship with my girlfriend Tess (almost 25) and my boyfriend Jack (almost 24). These are our fake names used for anonymous purposes only of course.


FME: Are you legally married or have you ever been legally married?

No, I am not married. I have not ever been married either.


FME: How would you describe your sexual orientation... are you heterosexual, bisexual, what?

I am bisexual.


FME: You currently live with…?

My boyfriend Jack, Girlfriend Tess, our 3 kids, Jack’s mother and his younger sister.


FME: Please describe your polyamorous relationship.

Neither I nor Tess get jealous if we have one-on-one time with Jack. But, there is always time for some group play. Jack even prefers if all three of us make love together. As for how things work, it’s simple, really. Jack has the job in the relationship and Tess and I watch the kids - for now. I’ve been trying to get a job as well so that I can help him with the bills. It’s seems unfair to me that he has to support the 6 of us by himself.


FME: How did this polycule form? Was it a sudden event or a gradual process? Was there a clear initiator?

Originally, I met Jack when we were both working at a haunted house. At the time I was currently in a monogamous relationship with a guy that I used to go to school with, who was also working at the same place but in a different part of the attraction. Jack was very flirty and silly. I clicked with him instantly. He told me a little bit about himself and how he had kids and a girlfriend that was bisexual. I confessed to him that I was also bisexual. We became close friends.

After the season was over I went back to my life with my boyfriend. A lot of drama started between me and my boyfriend’s mother. She found out that I was bisexual because she googled my name. What she didn’t know was that it was a different ‘Zoey’ that she found but, she’s the kind of person where once her mind was set there was no changing it. She was disgusted with me and forced my boyfriend to kick me out. I ended up moving in with my dad and that’s when I got back in touch with Jack. I had a friend request from him on my Facebook. We talked for about a month then he invited me over one random September day. That was when everything fell into place. We all clicked and I’ll admit, it was a sudden occurrence. But, it’s one that I will never regret or forget.


FME: Describe your relationship now.

Now our relationship is more refined and unrevealed except the occasional hugs and kisses but at night when our kids are asleep it’s still very sexual and romantic.

In the aspect of the 3 children that are in our relationship, I am basically a 'step-mother' to Tess's two kids and she is the 'step-mother' to my son. Jack is simply daddy to all of them. It works out wonderfully. In the future Jack and I would like to have more kids. Tess is physically unable to birth any more children so she has been thinking about adoption, and so have I. We all have always wanted a big family and every child deserves a home and a loving family that they can call their own. But, because of our current governmental standing... I don't know how well that would work, if at all.


FME: What are the sleeping arrangements? Is there a schedule?

Tess sleeps by the wall, Jack is in the middle and I sleep on the outside. We share a King sized bed. The only schedules that we follow are Jack’s work schedule and the schedule of our kids. Only one of them is old enough for school and the other two is the job of us stay-at-home mammas.


FME: What kind of rules/agreements for maintaining the relationship are there?

There’s really no rules. We all get along so well.


FME: What is your past experience with polyamory, if any?

Until this relationship that I’m currently in, I had no prior experience. And, I will admit that in the beginning Tess and I had our fair share of jealousy. She wasn’t used to a polyamory relationship either.


FME: Who are you out to? How were you outed? What has been the reaction by family, friends, neighbors, coworkers, random strangers, etc.?

Random strangers are funny. They give us the strangest looks when we’re out together. Me, Tess and Jack have gotten to the point where we don’t care about their looks or we just tell them to f--- off! That’s only if they are being rude though. For everyone else I just posted a status update on Facebook. Although, with my mother I sent a private message. At first she did not accept as easily as the rest but, after some time and my son (her grandson) she was much more accepting.


FME: Is there anything you've had to do to hide the nature of your relationship from anyone? Having to hide can be a lot of trouble. Are there other disadvantages to being in a relationship like this? Conversely, do you think polyamorous relationships have some advantages?

The only people we’ve had to hide from is the government. But, the reason to that is obvious. And, in the sexual aspect there is an advantage for Jack. If one of us is on our period then he can play around with the other. His only disadvantage is when we’re both on our period at the same time.


FME: What do you want to say to people who disapprove of your relationship, or disapprove of anyone having this kind of relationship? What's your reply to those who would say that women are victimized by a relationship like this?

I would say that they are wrong! We are not victimized by our relationship. The only way that I would see us as a ‘victim’ is if Jack was abusive. Which he is NOT!


FME: Can you think of anything that would make relationships like this inherently wrong?

I can’t think of anything wrong with my relationship. Unless it’s abusive, like I have stated above.


FME: If you could have a legal polyamorous marriage, and that included protections against discrimination, harassment, etc., would you? Or even if you do not want a legal polyamorous marriage, do you see a need for protections against discrimination?

Yes, we’ve all already discussed marriage. We ALL want to be united. Both Tess and I have already stated that if we were to get married we would take Jacks last name. And, if we ever decided not to get married for whatever reason then protection against discrimination would be wonderful.


FME: What advice do you have for someone who thinks they may be polyamorous or may want to enter into a polyamorous relationship?

Make sure that the people that will be involved in the polyamorous relationship get along without any type of jealousy. Major conflicts would be good to avoid but, there’s no avoiding tiny little conflicts. Every relationship, whether it be polyamorous, monogamous, or otherwise will have some type of little conflicts. It’s unavoidable.


FME: What advice do you have for family members and friends who are having trouble coming to grips with the reality of their family member or friend being polyamorous?

If you need any other kind of advice you can contact us online at our blog. If you would like to talk to a specific person then specify the name with your message please.


FME: Do you know/meet up with other polyamorous families?

No, we do not, but I think it would be fun to be able to hang out with other like-minded families.


FME: Any plans for the future?

As of now, our only plan is to keep living life happy. The way we are now with no interruptions from the government trying to break us apart. If we are ever able to get married then that would be our next future plan.


FME: Anything else you want to add?

If you would like to talk to us personally you may do so at our blog. Just be sure to specify whom you are talking too in your message.  All three of us run the blog together and if you did not specify it can be confusing.


*****

Here is their NOT SAFE FOR WORK Tumblr blog:
http://ourtriplesexstory.tumblr.com/

There you have it. Consenting adults who aren't hurting anyone, but who have to hide their love, denied their right to marry.

Why should they be denied their rights? There’s no good reason.We need to recognize that all adults should be free to be with any and all consenting adults as they mutually consent, and part of doing that is adopting relationship rights for all, including full marriage equality sooner rather than later. People are being hurt because of a denial of their basic human rights to love each other freely.

You can read other interviews I have done here.

If you are in a relationship like this and are looking for help or others you can talk with, read this.

Thank you to Zoey for doing this interview!

Wednesday, January 15, 2014

A Pansexual Woman Denied Her Rights

By my count, this is the twenty-seventh ongoing relationship I've covered through exclusive interviews in which the lovers are denied the freedom to be open about their love and are denied their fundamental right to marry. This one is with a beautiful Anonymous Woman who is polyamorous and consanguinamorous.

Read the interview below and ask yourself if there is one good reason her right to love the adults she does should be denied. There is some mildly graphic description of sexual activity.


*****


FULL MARRIAGE EQUALITY: Describe your background.

Anonymous Woman: I work in the film and television inudstry. I have a degree in Cinematic Arts. I currently homeschool a few children that aren't mine. I would say I'm from a middle to upper class background. My dad is from Europe and my mom is from Central America. My brother is my only sibling. I'm 37, and fairly pansexual, meaning I don't really care what gender someone is. I am tall and fit.



FME: Are you married or have you ever been married?

I have never been married and have no children. I want to have kids.


FME: You currently live with…?

Currently, I live in my parents' house. I do not live with my parents because they decided to move to another city, but wanted to keep the house in the family not sell it.


FME: How would you describe your relationship orientation?

Right now, what I have is a relationship with three people, a trans male-to-female girlfriend, my brother, and my sister in law. We have all been together a couple of times and they have all been with each other. It is difficult to call it an actual polyamory relationship because except for my brother and sister-in-law we don't live in the same cities. I am not saying I want or expect this to be the relationship I have forever. I do think given my pansexual orientation and need for affection that a polyamorous relationship of some type would be best. I am really pansexual. I like both genders and I like male-to-female transsexuals.


FME: What kind of relationship did you and your brother have while growing up?

My brother and I never had sex while growing up. I did spy on his liaisons with girlfriends a little bit. But not until the last couple of years did we have a sexual relationship. We apparently both had these feelings about each other but never acted on them. Who initiated the triad was his wife, however, not him and not me.


FME: How did that happen?

It basically started one night when they were over at my old apartment because they were in town and needed some alone time, and my parents' house was crowded. I was spying on them having sex and I was naked and they caught me masturbating to them. We were somewhat embarrassed and apologized and laughed and everything being awkward, and then rather suddenly my sister in law drops to her knees and begins to perform oral sex on me. That is how it all started.

The way that sort of worked was that my brother first got involved with us just watching. But after a while we just started playing with each other as part of the process, and one thing lead to another and we were f---ing each other that same night.

I always was attracted to my brother, and frequently said if he wasn't married and wasn't my brother I'd probably want to be his girlfriend. But I had never really thought about acting on it.


FME: Describe your relationship now. Are you siblings, boyfriend/girlfriend? What about the sex?

It is complicated. I don't know how to describe it. It is some of the best sex I ever had. It can be kinky but it's not always kinky. Except for that little detail about me having sex with my brother, it would probably be a lot less kinky. We don't have sex all the time. Maybe only 5 or 6 of these situations a year and usually not all four or us at the same time. I know that people will assume we're meeting every weekend and doing absolutely bizarre things but it's not like that. We see each other and interact more as family than as any other role. Even with my girfriend it has become less unbridled sex and more planning to have a family.


FME: Does anyone in your life know the full, true nature/history of your relationship and how did they find out? How have they reacted?

The polyamorous relationship is known about by some friends but is a complete secret to my parents. Their oldest daughter picked up that there is an occasional sexual relationship between me and her mother. The other kids do not now anything. The whole family understands I am bisexual. My parents are Catholic, and while they probably would rather see me meet a guy, they accepted that part of me. I used to be a drug addict do all kinds of illegal [stuff]. They managed to get me into recovery, and have been supportive of anything which is a legitimate lifestyle. They dread me falling back to being an addict more than any sexual orientation, and as long as I'm not selling myself they are okay with it. However, I do not think they would ever accept my brother and I as lovers.


FME: Having to hide the full nature of your relationship from some people can be a disadvantage. Can you describe how that has been? Are there any other disadvantages? Conversely, do you think consanguineous relationships have some advantages and some things better than unrelated lovers?

Here is a big advantage: several of us get to have several needs of ours satisified, including my girlfriend who, frankly, has a problem dealing with men but nonetheless has some attraction to them. We're all somewhat bisexual. We all love each other. It is safe... no diseases, no risks of violence, nothing like you would risk dating people you really don't know.


FME: Is this a closed group?

We are not closed, we are open to finding other people and are actually trying to do it, especially my girlfriend and I.


FME: Any plans for the future?

I made a decision for biological clock reasons to try to have a baby. My girfriend has offered to be the legal second parent for the kid and to use my brother as the sperm donor. There is the downside of slightly higher chances for birth defects but there is also a risk in that of waiting until my 40's or whenever I found a boyfriend. We're going to have a legal agreement drawn up stating that we are doing this so we cannot be charged with incest. There's laws against us f---ing each other but none against using a sibling for a sperm donor. An advantage of this is, we know where the DNA is coming from, in case a medical condition develops. And as well, when the question comes about as to how I had a baby artificially, we thought that having the "true parent" being her uncle than a total stranger would go over better.


FME: What do you want to say to people who disapprove of your relationship, or disapprove of anyone having this kind of relationship?

Well, we're all well into adulthood and we all love each other. It is safe, and it is an extension of our love for one another. This is something that developed in adulthood. We're all over 35. It meets needs we have as bisexual people better than going out and trying to swing.


FME: What's your reply to those who would say that this is one of you preying on the other (and that you can’t truly consent?)

What can't we consent to? I'm not being blackmailed or extorted. I'm not being raped. I can say no. In fact, shortly after this first happened I DID say no. But I decided I didn't want to say no anymore.


FME: Aside from the law, which I think is ridiculous, can you think of anything that would make relationships like this inherently wrong?

Yeah, if there was force or compulsion of any kind used in it.


FME: If you could get legally married, and that included protections against discrimination, harassment, etc., would you? Or is this a different kind of relationship than that?

That's complicated. Firstly, I'm a political libertarian and don't believe the state should be involved in marriage. Then if we did do that we'd have to consider my parents and my brother's kids. We aren't anywhere near that kind of a decision though even if it were possible.


FME: What advice do you have for family members and friends who think or know that relatives they know are having these feelings for each other?

Just don't try and shame people and make them feel guilty.


*****


There you have it. Consenting adults who aren't hurting anyone, but who have to hide their love.

Why should they be denied their rights? There’s no good reason.We need to recognize that all adults should be free to be with any and all consenting adults as they mutually consent, and part of doing that is adopting relationship rights for all, including full marriage equality sooner rather than later. People are being hurt because of a denial of their basic human rights to love each other freely.

You can read other interviews I have done here.

If you are in a relationship like this and are looking for help or others you can talk with, read this.

If you are a family member or friend of someone who is in or may be in such a relationship, please read this.

Thank you to Anonymous Woman for doing this interview!

Tuesday, January 14, 2014

We Get Letters


This blog is visited by people all over the planet, and welcomes comments and I also welcome your emails and private messages. Everyone once in a while I publish some of those messages in a blog entry, which is what I’m I’m doing here.

Responding to an entry on hostility towards as grandfather-granddaughter couple, Anonymous wrote...
I would like to see an unbiased discussion of the ethical issues involved in grandfather/grandaughter mutual erotic atttaction and expression. With the ready availability of contraception, the fear of consanguinous offspring being possible is set aside. The likely negative reaction from other family members is still a very serious issue as is that of friends, etc. If the granddaughter is at or above the age of consent, the "between consenting adults" rule s h o u l d reign, but the many negative consequences would seem to outweigh the "reward."
Serious study of consanguinamorous relationships would be great.

After "Intergenerational Relationships Can Work," Anonymous wrote...
My wife and I, both 62, are in a committed relationship with a 34 year old man. This has been the most energizing invigorating experience imaginable. Jealously has never been an issue, and my wife believes that she is the luckiest woman on the planet because we love spoiling the crap out of her. Although we two guys are not bi, we are completely comfortable hugging, kissing and cuddling in bed with my wife in middle.
I asked if Jenny Erikson was stir crazy after something she wrote at TheStir on polyamory, and IchigoRadiance wrote...

 
This really caught my eye. "I can only imagine the psychological damage to a child who has to live with a revolving door of his parents’ various love interests."

This right here really has nothing to do with polyamory. Actually it sounds a lot more like what my older childhood was like. When I was in my teens after my mother divorced her abusive husband, and my, at the time step-father, she dated other men. Sometimes she dated them for long times and sometimes she dated them for short periods. Some of them had their issues, hence why she would quit dating them, so up until my eleventh grade of school, you could consider her relationships somewhat of a revolving door.

Here's the thing, while at times things were a little unstable. It wasn't because of her moving on to other men, the problems were the men themselves. By moving on, she was dumping trash, trying to find a guy that was better than all of that, and she eventually found a man who she is happy with. But she never would have found him had she stuck with any of the jerks in an attempt to keep a "stable" life.

And stable isn't exactly the word I think this person is looking for. Instead, consistent is the word. When we still lived with my ex-step-father. We had a consistent life. It masked itself as stability, but none of us were happy. It was consistent, but consistently bad.

So if say she dated more than one guy, I don't think my life or our life in general would have been all that destabilized. It might not have been consistent, but it would have been preferable to that douche who used to be her husband.

Of course, to be honest. I saw that and immediately wrote this, I went back up and saw that you talked about the revolving door as well.
IchigoRadiance also commented on "Hate Adds Pain to Genetic Sexual Attraction"...
I agree, no matter whether you both eventually end up in a relationship or not, it is best to wait until she is older.

As for if the feelings pass. I can't speak for everybody, and I myself count as someone with GSA or just someone who fell in love with his younger half-sister. But after ten years, my feelings have never disappeared. At times they have waxed and other times they have waned. But they are always there.

Anonymous self-reported after an entry on self-reporting of consanguineous sex that the first time he had sex, it was with his sister, who was three years older than him, and that they've been sexual partners for more than 12 years now, but they don't want to live together, or marry. Another person added her experiences with her brother, which included some childhood experimentation and an adult encounter.

There were a few comments left after my entry answering how common consensual incest is. One Anonymous entry recounts experimenting with his older sister and eventually moving in together as husband and wife...
Eventually after about 5 years of soul searching and testing of our love relationship,we moved to our new home as husband and wife.In our new home we had our first intercourse.It was an incredible feeling to have my thing inside her.I still love and respect her as my elder sister and abide her decisions.I always want to love her as I know she wants me only.I never want to break this relationship of love, trust,and deep understanding.We both are extremely happy together and have never felt the urge to be with someone else.We both feel extremely sad whenever we are separated for just a few hours.Now I am 55 years old and she 62 ! It has been a long journey.We have 4 daughter,three are married and well settled.while the youngest is in school.
After the entry on why consensual incest is still illegal in many places, Anonymous wrote...
The society today is rather disturbing, i see no reason that relationships between to consenting adults be illegal. As i am a female currently in a committed relationship with my [brother]. We did not grow up together due to circumstances when we were children. but after 30 years of searching for my family i found one of 5 of my siblings and the day we met was like magic, i instantly felt a fire start to burn inside and it wasnt that of us finding each other after so long it was instant love. i have waited my whole life for this feeling and the moment i saw my brother i knew he was the one.. we dont have to worry about having children cause i am fixed and we just want to be together.. is there any place we can go and have a open relationship. it pains both of us to have to hid it from everyone.. 
Liz Smith, a longtime friend of this blog, commented on an entry about female animals who mate with their close male relatives...
All I will say is that inbreeding does not automatically lead to children with problems. I have talked with people who were inbred, or who had children with family members, and I have not heard of any who had problems as a result of it. I myself had a daughter with my brother and she has turned out just fine. I am aware that constant inbreeding, generation after generation, can possibly lead to problems, but often times it is not as big a problem as many make it out to be.
IchigoRadiance commented again after that entry, too...
When people bring up the mutated baby argument, they forget that most problems arose from several generations of inbreeding. Which coincides with what you said. Most children born from consanguinamory are healthy,

Those that use cases such as royalty don't realize that that is a case where inbreeding was encouraged if not outright demanded. Most of it was to consolidate power. In the modern day, under non-abuse, most people will not choose to date or have children with a family member, and the frequency is not to be worried about. In other words, I think we would have to require inbreeding for it to become a problem. As it is, tolerance and/or acceptance won't cause it.

The other part of the coin is that our technology has improved, so we can easily tell if the child will have problems.

If people want to support eugenics, they need to do so on a consistent level and base it on more practically. They don't really care right now about the child, just filling a moral quota to show off.
Liz commented on a couple of more entries. After "Ten Myths About Sibling Consanguinamory" she wrote...
It happened between me and my brother. Why? Not because of abuse, but because we were close when younger and as we got older we fell in love. I love him, and I wish the world would accept relationships like ours. We will always be together. We have a daughter and may have more children one day. I know that we will have to explain our situation to them and help them understand, but nobody is ever going to convince me that loving my brother is wrong because I know in my heart that it is right.
After "Consanguinamory and Reproduction" she wrote...
I am in a relationship with my brother. My story is available on this blog here. My brother and I have a daughter together. She is perfectly healthy and happy, and we do plan to have more children. I've chatted with many people who had or who were incest children and they turned out fine. I believe that the risks are simply not as bad as we have been led to believe.
After "She Has Been Denied Her Freedom to Marry," Anonymous wrote...
I love what you had to say it was hard for me and my son at first but now we enjoy so much in each other. We both have one thing that turns both of us on and that is we both like the idea of us having sex with other people to. My son and I enjoy seeing each other in that way, sharing one another's love with others at times or all at the same time. This is keep all between us all. I never knew their was other family lovers like us untill now. We have changed other family's minds on this matter, once they gave it a try they agree that incest can be the most loving thing in the world to have between family members and friends alike.
And finally, after "He's on Cloud Nine," Anonymous wrote...
My mother and I began a consanguniumaous relationship with my mother when she was 48 and I was 28. Her second husband was dying of cancer and in a moment of weakness we both gave in to our urges and had sex. We were a couple for nearly six years when we decided not to risk anyone finding out so we stopped living together.

Although my mother got pregnant with our child she had a miscarriage and even though we not trying for a child my mother and I were hopeful she would get pregnant again but she began menopause and that was that.
 
We are still sexually active, even today but, like most relationships it has changed to us getting together occasionally to remember the strong love we still have for each other.
Thanks again to all who comment or who send emails or private messages.

Monday, January 6, 2014

Discovering Polyamory Through People You Know

At thebigsmoke.com.au, has a piece on polyamory. Some names were changed to protect people from bigotry. It starts with coworkers...
One day, Ray asked, “You do know that I’ve got a woman friend, don’t you?”

He went on to say that he was married and living together with his wife and children, but that his wife knew about his ‘bit on the side’. Ray explained that they were in an open, ‘polyamorous’ relationship.

While this threw Angie initially, when Ray got a message from Liz, his wife, saying she had arrived at her lover’s house, she finally understood. She still found this confronting, but it was also liberating. Hearing that two adults could have an honest and open relationship with such a high level of communication was astounding to her.

When someone realizes they know polyamorous people, it can be eye-opening.
The groundbreaking book, The Ethical Slut, was written by Dossie Easton and Janet W. Hardy. Both women are practicing polyamorists. Having embraced this lifestyle in the 60s, Easton has lived the polyamorous lifestyle on an ongoing basis, even raising a child with her many different partners, some of who are more permanent than others.

She prefers to use the term ‘slut’ rather than polyamorous.

“We use that word very defiantly to open up people’s definitions of how powerful sexuality can be.”

They use the word slut to encompass all forms of open, honest and ethical sexuality, from swinging to open relationships to triads, quads and communities.

But how can we possibly love more than one person at once?

Most people do, at least at some point in their lives.

It's nice to see more and more media offering a basic explanation of polyamory.

Sunday, January 5, 2014

Frequently Asked Question: Why Do Polyamorists Get Married?


The question is asked as though the person asking assumes that actual monogamy is a requirement for marriage. It isn’t in most places, even though current marriage laws will only allow monogamy in the legal sense.

For the purpose of this question and answer, I will include any form of honest nonmonogamy, or any label applied, such as open relationship, open marriage, swinging, swapping, polyamory, polyfidelity and polygamy.

Why do swingers get married?

Why do people in open relationships get married?

Why do polyamorous people get married?

The short answer is: For the same reason most other people get married. They want to get married, they think it is the best thing to do at that time in life, or they’re pressured.



There are many reasons to get married, and as I noted, one doesn’t actually need to be monogamous to get married, unless one wants to be ethical and married to someone who needs and demands monogamy. People get married for love, for attraction, for companionship, to solemnize or make official their relationship, for religious reasons, to make a public statement, for sex, for children, for friendship, for benefits, for insurance, to pool resources, to co-parent, for career, for money, as a form of commitment, to apply a legal structure to their relationship, and for other reasons I’m probably forgetting. Nonmonogamists who marry do so for one or more of these reasons, just like anyone else.

Some people cite the marriage vow of "forsaking all others." But that is just ONE vow, not one that all people marrying make. The vow can also mean different things to different marriages.

Some nonmonogamists decline to marry for various reasons. Some, like some monogamists, have decided to decline until everyone can get married. Some decline to marry until everyone in their polycule can marry. Some can’t have a legal marriage for their polycule until there is full marriage equality.

The question can also be asked of monogamists: Why do you get married? Not only is actual monogamy not a requirement, in many places, of our restrictive marriage laws, but one can be monogamous without being married.

Friday, January 3, 2014

Solidarity From Kim LaCapria

Recently at the dailyglobe.com, Kim LaCapria had the piece "Is Polyamory The New Gay Marriage? I Hope So."

The angry response to this concept that is so intriguing manifested after xoJane published what appears to be a controversial post by Angi Becker Stevens, titled simply “My Big Polyamorous Wedding.” In it, Stevens explains her plans to marry her boyfriend of several years — but plot twist: she’s already married, and planning to remain wed to her first husband.

Croatia Same-Sex Marriage Ban
Now, xoJane is a site where most posters and commenters are feminist and “sex positive,” but the response was overwhelmingly negative in the comments section. A small level of grudging acceptance was often appended with a “I don’t really like this, but …”, and even that was rare. Most posts demonstrated a visceral level of discomfort, fear, or otherwise disapproving assessment of Stevens’ life. (A life, we might add, that all parties involved seem to have chosen happily.)
Some people consent to, and want, things other people do not want. Why is that so hard to understand?

She points out that people quite often approach romantic or sexual relationships differently than they approach anything else in life...
Force or coercion is generally considered to be poor form, and socially discouraged — but if partners are not on the same “marriage timeline” we are, we’re advised by nearly everyone to force their hand on the matter or bail, never to consider that the decision is heavy and one to be arrived at when both parties are comfortable.

And if you question these unshakeable tenets — that there are minefields full of dealbreakers, that it’s “a breakup because it’s broken,” that “he’s just not that into you,” that tactical plays are the best route — you’re seen in one of two ways. Females are repeatedly told that it’s about “self worth,” and are called “doormats,” while men are accused of being “commitment-phobic,” “manchildren,” or simply are labeled cads.

In our strangely unformed collective opinion, you’re either the player or the played, so best to be on the offensive — a proposition we imbue with the collateral of divorce, expensive jewelry, or simply punitive use of affection. As a standard!

As such, we’ve arrived in 2013 with a post-women’s lib society and an adversarial playing ground for love. Or, at its bare bones, we no longer need the “sexual economy” on which marriage was based for so long. And in the absence of the sex for security exchange, we cling to the bizarrely dated, long-obsolete truths of monogamous marriage like some old harvest sacrifice, adhering to superstition and divination to declare certain certainties for which there really is no hard and fast rule.
Again, it isn't true that every person wants exactly the same thing when it comes to relationships as everyone else. And that's OK!

She cites the negative comments left after the article, bashing polyamorous people.
It goes on — but the ambient theme in the discussion of polyamory vis a vis gay marriage is fear. Fear we will be forced to “share,” fear that the promised happy ending will look different than what we’ve seen on Pinterest, fear that, most of all, our commitments will be tested time and again rather than a foregone conclusion, a Rachel McAdams and Ryan Gosling kiss in the rain, a post-script to the story of how we “got” the guy or girl — as if a person were a thing to get.

It seems the question of whether polyamory is the next gay marriage is secondary to the real question — why does every major divergence from “one man, one woman” terrify us so intensely, and why do we continue to indulge the idea others’ choices disrupt or even threaten our own?

BINGO!

Gay marriage has, in reality, always existed. So has polyamory. It is just that we're no longer going to force everyone into a closet unless they stick with a narrow heteromonogamous stay-within-your-race mold. Those days are over. Good riddance! Get used to it.

Thursday, January 2, 2014

True Tales of Polyamory

Polyamory is now a regular topic in media, it seems, and that's a good thing. At refinery29.com, writes up "3 Fascinating and True Stories" of polyamory.
Every polyamorous relationship relies on open discussion of rules and boundaries; there is a running joke among poly people that you always spend way more time talking about your feelings than you do having sex with your multiple partners.

It can seem that way.

Story 1...
Karen is in her early 30s. She lives in Toronto with a male partner, whom she has been dating for over five years, and has a woman she considers her life partner, whom she has been close to for approximately three years. She also has other relationships, including a serious boyfriend who lives in the United States, and both her live-in partner and life partner have other relationships as well.

She says...
"There are a heap of benefits. Having the freedom to explore new feelings with people, being able to be honest with my partners and lovers (and allowing them to be honest with me), feeling like I'm connected to a web of love and care. There are also so many small moments of joy: cooking a meal for my partners or being excited to hear about a partner's new love."
Story 2...
Rina is an engineer in her mid-30s living in San Francisco. She was in a polyamorous relationship for five years with a married man that eventually ended after she realized that her partner's relationship with her was interfering with his stated desires to have children with his wife.

She says...
"I have yet to see anyone pull it off without major doses of drama and bulls--- and ego and pain." 
 That sounds like long-term intimate relationships in general.

Story 3...
Ben lives in New York and is in his late 20s. While he has been nonmonogamous with a partner, he has never been in a polyamorous relationship.


He says...
"Poly involves a lot of communication and scheduling, so much so that I'd think it'd be hard to even realize if you're in a relationship—or if you are, what is it? Perhaps the ambiguity of where things could go or progress or how to get more 'serious' would bother me."
You can read it all here along with comments. People are people, so for the most part, problems you might find in other relationships will be found in polyamorous ones. Some polyamorous relationships are closed, some are open. Some are good, some... not so much. People should be allowed their own path, and not forced into a narrow heteromonogamous mold.

Tuesday, December 31, 2013

Why Polyamory Will Gain Acceptance Faster

It’s not going to take as long for polyamorists to get our freedoms, including the freedom to marry, as it is taking (monogamist) gays and lesbians.

First, I need to have a bit of clarification here. Polyamory has always been around with some public awareness, whatever forms it has taken or whichever labels have been applied, especially if we go with the broad term ethical nonmonogamy instead.

What I mean is that in the US, as well as many other countries, there was a sustained period of trying to force everyone, or at least everyone but the elite, into heterosexual, gender-roled, married monogamy with spouses that were “acceptable” by class, race, religion, etc. Those deemed not suitable for marriage were often kept out of public life in general. For example, people with certain disabilities were expected to stay home or be institutionalized so as to not cause discomfort to people who would be uneasy around them. That oppression is in the process of being dismantled. We are ending the prosecutions, the persecutions, the stigmatizing, and everything else that makes it so people go into hiding (or hiding an important part of who they are) because of who they are and who they love.

Polyamorists haven't had a "Stonewall" moment. Many people cite the Stonewall Riots of 1969 as the start of gay and lesbian people fighting back against such persecution. It has been 44 years and same-gender couples are still barred from legally marrying in most US states and LGBT people still need employment protections (ENDA). But the momentum is rapidly building, especially with the recent Supreme Court actions on DOMA and PropH8 and the death of “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” for military service, and all of the public figures who are coming out in support of the same-gender freedom to marry. There have been so many advancements since 1969.

Note that earlier in the 1960s, the US adopted laws to protect racial minorities nationwide, and the Loving v. Virginia case struck down bans on the interracial freedom to marry, over a hundred years after the Emancipation Proclamation. Women got the vote nationwide in 1920 and have made much progress, but are still on the journey.

So will polyamorists have to wait a couple of generations?

Happily, the answer is no. Here why:



1) Momentum. Note that gay civil rights have made progress much faster than feminist and racial civil rights. Likewise, rights for nonmonogamists and people who don’t want to marry at all will not take as long as gay rights. Momentum is building, and polyamorists should be exceedingly appreciative of the work done by the racial, feminist, gay, and lesbian civil rights champions.

2) Smaller opposition. Opposition to polyamory and the polygamous freedom to marry comes almost entirely from specific segments of religious conservatives, more and more of whom are warming up to the fact that civil marriages are not a threat to their churches and that it is destructive and wasteful to concentrate on trying to control adult relationships, especially when it comes to people who are not members of their church. There are some who oppose the polygamous freedom to marry out of concern for tax/benefit issues, but those concerns can be addressed without denying any adults the freedom to marry.

3) Less motivated opposition.
Most of the above considered “line in the sand” to be the same-gender freedom to marry and are already resigned to polygamous freedom to marry upon national establishment of the same-gender freedom to marry. While some monogamist LGBT people bristle at the connection, what matters is that a connection exists in the mind of those who oppose the freedoms and they do not want to continue fighting one freedom if the other is established. Those who identify as LGBT monogamists have much more in common with those who identify as heterosexual monogamists than some heteros realize, but in the prejudiced mind, monogamist LGBT people and polyamorists are in the same big “other” category.

4) More existing understanding. Some strictly heterosexual people are disgusted by the thought of gay sex and much of the now-diminishing opposition from heterosexuals to the same-gender freedom to marry came from that. Or, if not disgusted, they (especially males) simply couldn’t understand how someone might find someone of the same gender sexually or romantically attractive. But almost everyone can understand (or has personally experienced) being romantically or sexually attracted to more than one person at the same time. They’ve had the feelings themselves; this is one reason they bring up polyamory when discussing the freedom to marry. While someone may not personally want to pursue polyamory, they are more likely to avoid opposing those who do. Also, for religious conservatives, there is a heritage of polyamory in their traditions and clear scriptural prohibitions are lacking in most traditions’ scriptures.

5) Strict monogamy is rare. Most people are mostly or strictly heterosexual in how they see themselves and live, even if they’ve had some experiences with someone of the same gender. Very few people are truly and strictly monogamists sexually, emotionally, romantically over the course of a lifetime. Extending rights to polyamorous people, including the polygamous freedom to marry, deals with a reality that everyone has experienced. For example, if someone has children with more than one person, and they are all agreeable to a marriage structure involving three or more people, why deny them that? Relationships, including marriage, usually involve more than one bond (erotic, romantic, friendship, cohabitational, parental, legal, financial, professional, shared interests) between the people involved, and sometimes one of those bonds may diminish or end with one person and begin or increase with another, but there is no reason to end the earlier relationship; there could be good reasons nobody wants to end the relationship. For example, a woman might share sex, residence, children, and a business with one man, and sex, romance, friendship, and a love of theatre with another.

6) Political compatibility. Progressives, libertarians, and conservatives can all find much to like in polyamory, which is why you can find polyamorists in just about all areas of the political map. Polyamorists who are progressives see cooperative and efficient living in polyamory. Libertarians (who generally oppose government restriction on adult behavior that doesn’t violate another’s property or person) and conservative polyamorists like the idea of people relying on each other rather than a government program.

7) Increased compassion. More and more people now recognize that letting consenting adults have their relationships and love each other as they want is the right thing to do, and opposing relationships between consenting adults is not only mean-spirited, but a waste.

8) Experience. While many LGBT people are monogamists, some socially/politically active LGBT people are polyamorists or poly-friendly, and they are already motivated and working towards full marriage equality, and experienced in advancing these civil rights.

While some people fighting for LGBT rights or the same-gender freedom to marry only care about LGBT rights and monogamy, or even reject association with or comparison to polyamorists (including LGBT polyamorists) others have shown solidarity. Polyamorists owe a great deal of thanks to those in the racial, feminist, gay and lesbian civil rights movements for opening minds and establishing rights for adults, as well as continuing solidarity in the fight for those rights. Polyamorists will get their rights faster not because the movement is stronger than the LGBT rights movement, but rather exactly because the LGBT rights movement has been so strong.

Relationship rights and full marriage equality for all adults is going to happen. We’re trying to make it happen sooner rather than later.

Tuesday, December 24, 2013

Another Polygynous Family Gets TLC Series

The Browns of "Sister Wives" have done a lot of good for polygyny, the larger scope of polygamy, and the still-larger scope of polyamory. Now the Williams are getting a series on TLC after their special in September tested the waters and drew good ratings. Here's the report from the Associated Press at dailymail.co.uk...
The cable TV network said Thursday it will produce nine, one-hour episodes about Brady Williams and his five wives and 24 children. The first episode is set to debut March 9.
These series feature polygyny, but there are so many ways polyamory can lived out, and hopefully, we'll see some variety in the future. For example, I'd like to see a series with a polyandrous triad, and definitely one with a same-gender triad.

Reality stars! TLC will produce nine, one-hour episodes about Brady Williams (center) and his five wives, pictured, from left, Paulie, Robyn, Rosemary, Nonie and Rhonda
Reality stars! TLC will produce nine, one-hour episodes about Brady Williams (center) and his five wives, pictured, from left, Paulie, Robyn, Rosemary, Nonie and Rhonda


Members of the Williams family are among an estimated 15,000 independent polygamists in the West who don't belong to an organized, fundamentalist Mormon church. Williams and his wives withdrew from the Apostolic United Brethren during the mid-2000s after re-evaluating their core beliefs.

The family no longer teaches the tenets of fundamental Mormonism to their children at home, opting instead to take from other teachings such as Buddhism to instill good, morale values in their two dozen children, who range in age from 2-20.

Interesting.


The real story: Mr Williams poses with Robyn (left) and Rosemary (right) outside of their home in a polygamous community outside Salt Lake City
In addition to the Browns and now the Williams family, TLC also has done a special featuring the Darger family of Utah. HBO's fictional show about a polygamous family, 'Big Love,' ran for five seasons.
Following the recent court ruling [decriminalizing polyfidelity in Utah], Williams said now is the time for polygamists to show they are deserving of the recognition by putting an end to the misogyny rampant among the culture and putting women on equal footing as men.
 Yes, we are making progress for equality. 
The practice of polygamy is a legacy of the early teachings of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, but the mainstream church and its 15 million members worldwide abandoned polygamy in 1890 and strictly prohibit it today.

Hmm. That could have been written better. Many American polygynists have Mormon roots, but polygamy is as old as life.

These television shows are helping more people to see that an adult should be free to marry any and all consenting adults, and that's a great thing.

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