Newspaper Editorial Calls For Hate

A newspaper in Zambia is calling for more hate in response to recent shocking discoveries that people are loving each other even though they are siblings. Here is the editorial at daily-mail.co.zm...

THE continued reports of incestuous marriages in Central Province are worrying and raise many social and psychological questions.

What is there to worry about?

We urge relevant Government organs and non-governmental organisations to carry out a research to establish if this could be widespread and unravel the factors that could be driving people in this particular province into such marriages.

Yes, it is common. What is driving them to it is usually the same thing that drives any lovers.

This kind of behaviour should not be allowed to take root because it could have devastating social and biological consequences.

Such as...? Such as...? They got nuthin'.

Human beings are not animals that are ruled by instinct. We are ruled by reason.

Some of us are ruled by reason. Others want to interfere in the marriages of strangers.

Surely, how could a brother and sister have the courage to engage in a sexual relationship and even have children between them?

I can show you video.

This does not happen even in the most liberal and morally depraved western societies.

This happens everywhere and always has.

Incest is a criminal offence in Zambia.

Not for any good reason. 

It is disturbing to imagine the stigma the innocent children that could be born out of such a perverted marriage would have to endure.

Uh, then stop stigmatizing them.

What a pile of crap that editorial is. I hope the person who wrote it doesn't actually get paid for that drivel.

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Posted in: Africa,breaking up homes,brother-sister,children,consanguineous,family reaction,incest,lack of equality harms,law,media,persecution,prejudice,siblings,stigma

New Republic Insults Hundreds of Millions

Alice Robb wrote at "The Strange Scholarship of Incest" at newrepublic.com...

Whether or not Meryl Streep deserves to win Best Actress for her turn as the deranged matriarch in August: Osage County is up for debate, but everyone who’s seen Tracy Letts’s play or the film adaptation should be able to agree on at least one thing: It makes for some uncomfortable viewing. And of all the disturbing elements that make up this saga—alcoholism, suicide, adultery—there’s one plotline that stands out as truly disturbing: the incestuous romance between Ivy and Little Charles, who believe they’re first cousins but—spoiler alert—turn out to be half-siblings.

Why is that disturbing?

Disgust seems like a pretty appropriate response to an affair between cousins, but historically, in societies around the world, marriage between cousins has been accepted and even encouraged.

And yet she calls it disgusting anyway, insulting hundreds of millions of people, including her own ancestors. Then she gets into that big question...

Is the taboo against incest a biological universal, or is it culturally derived? And if it’s a cultural construct, why is it so widespread?

Ultimately, when it comes to whether or not consenting adults should have their rights, the answer to that question isn't relevant.

“I’m not saying that it’s fine, but I think the genetic risks of incest are probably overestimated,” said Diane Paul, a professor at the University of Massachusetts Boston whose research focuses on the history of evolution and genetics.

It certainly is.

“It’s assumed it would be higher, but there’s a huge bias of ascertainment,” she explains. “If you have a baby [that’s the product of incest] with a problem, people say, ‘Oh, that’s why,’ but if the baby is healthy, no one says, ‘Look at that healthy baby’ [that’s the product of incest].”

DING! We have a winner.

“In terms of genetic distance, a half-sibling relationship is equivalent to an uncle-niece relationship or a double first cousin relationship” [double first cousins share both sets of grandparents], both of which are quite common in different societies,” says Alan Bittles, a researcher at the Centre for Comparative Genomics at Murdoch University in Australia.

Double first cousins can legally marry in some US states.

The article then gets into Westermarck.

It is very simple... if YOU are disgusted by something, don't do it. But it is rude, cruel, and unjust to try to stop consenting adults in love from being together.

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Posted in: academia,brother-sister,children,consanguineous,cousins,family reaction,media,prejudice,science,siblings,stigma

Bus Sighting at Media Matters

Luke Brinker at mediamatters.org, in responding to an anti-equality column by twice-divorced-now-in-third-marriage radio talk show host and author, Dennis Prager, threw polyamorous and consanguinamorous people under the bus.

Prager's prediction dovetails with those of other marriage equality opponents who similarly suggest that necrophilia and bestiality might become commonly accepted practices if gay couples are allowed to marry. But in the 10 years since Massachusetts became the first state to legalize marriage equality, there hasn't been a rush to legalize polygamous unions. Meanwhile, most states that allow incestuous marriages are right-leaning states where same-sex marriage currently isn't allowed.

As Slate's Dahlia Lithwick has observed, the problem with "slippery slope" arguments of the kind advanced by Prager is that they ignore the deep differences between allowing a committed, loving same-sex couple to get married and permitting, say, a brother and sister to get married. Incestuous relationships, Lithwick notes, are often exploitative and psychologically destructive, with severe consequences for children's health.

Here is how I responded in the comments (with links added here for further reading)...
 
The response to bigots when they bring up polygamy and consanguinamory is "What's wrong with letting consenting adults marry?" Please note that under our broad legal systems, corpses and other species (necrophilia and bestiality) are not considered consenting adults. However, a consenting adult might want to marry more than one person, or marry a close relative. When (white) women got the right to vote, there wasn't a rush for voting rights for people of color, and when Loving v. Virginia knocked down bans on monogamous interracial marriages, there wasn't a rush to grant to same-gender freedom to marry, but there should have been.

It is unfair to say that incestuous relationships are often exploitative and psychology destructive. That is ABUSIVE relationships in general, which can include complete strangers and interracial couples same-gender couples. Also, it is the abusive relationships that tend to come to the attention of law enforcement and counselors. Nobody in a good relationship is calling up a shrink or law enforcement and saying, "Hey, I just want to tell you I'm in an incestuous relationship and it is great!"

The "mutant baby" argument is a smokescreen. First of all, some consanguinamorous relationships involve only people of the same gender. Yes, they are gay marriages, so to speak. I have interviewed people in these relationships myself. Secondly, marriage shouldn't be equated with baby-making. Not all mixed-gender relationships birth biological children. Thirdly, contrary to myth, most births to consanguineous parents do not produce children with significant birth defects or other genetic problems (I know some of these children, and so do you, whether you know it or not); while births to
other parents do sometimes have birth defects. Heterosexual couples with obvious, series genetic diseases are not prevented from dating, having sex, having children, or marrying, so the "mutant baby" argument is not a justification for stopping genetic half-sisters who didn't even grow up with each other from marrying.

I expect more from Media Matters than to throw some consenting adults under the bus to assuage bigots. There is no good reason to deny that we must keep evolving until an adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, monogamy or polyamory, race, or religion is free to marry any and all consenting adults. The limited same-gender freedom to marry is a great and historic step, but is NOT full marriage equality, because equality "just for some" is not equality. Let's stand up for EVERY ADULT'S right to marry the person(s) they love. Get on the right side of history!

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Posted in: boundaries,children,consanguineous,freedom to marry,incest,marriage equality,media,polyamory,polygamy,prejudice,solidarity,stigma

Tale as Old as Time

This blog is about relationship rights for all adults, especially the right to marry any and all consenting adults. It is not about criticizing nor promoting any philosophy towards religion, spiritual considerations, superstitions, the paranormal or supernatural, any religious text or writings/traditions/beliefs/practices/systems/organizations considered sacred, inspired, of authoritative by some, nor skepticism when it comes to such things.

There are both allies and opponents of relationship rights and full marriage equality in just about every religion and among those who claim no religion, and I welcome allies no matter what tradition, if any, they prefer or reject.

With that out of the way…

Considering the Bible as literature, which anyone can do whether they are a devout Christian, a Deist, a Hindu, an Atheist, or an Antitheist or take some other path, one can see that the Bible implies, outright portrays, and further addresses consanguineous sex.

Frequently, someone will ask “Where did Cain get his wife?” or “Did Adam and Eve’s children have sex with each other?” or some variation. Whether someone considers this speculation about fanciful myths or actual history is irrelevant to analyzing what the text itself says.



One common response says that there were other people aside from Adam and Eve, even claiming that Genesis 1:26-27 describes the creation of people other than Adam and Eve. That may work for someone who can find some other explanation for Genesis 3:20, which calls Eve the mother of all living, and other passages which indicate Adam and Eve were the parents of all humans.

Romans 5 says that sin and death came into the world through one man, Adam, and 1 Corinthians 15 says that in Adam all die. These passages imply that the Bible portrays every human as a descendant of Adam.  There’s a mention of Eve in the Apocrypha that agrees with this, in the prayer of Tobit (Tobit 8:6): "Thou madest Adam, and gavest him Eve his wife for a helper and a stay; of them came the seed of men…"

That the Bible portrays Adam and Eve as the ancestors of all humans is the interpretation publicly affirmed by a diverse group of Bible enthusiasts, who often vehemently disagree with each other on other matters about what the Bible says. For a few examples, see here, here, here, here, here, and here. Some of those sources disagree very much on other aspects of Genesis, especially the first few chapters, but agree as to the Bible teaching that Adam and Eve are the ancestors of all humans (and please note that Genesis 5:4 says Adam, in addition to the named sons, had other sons and daughters), and so it appears that the Bible portrays the origin of human beings as the result of consanguineous (incestuous) sex. Adam and Eve’s children reproduced with each other, if not also Adam and Eve.


It is also of note that the Bible portrays Noah, his wife, their three sons, and the sons' wives were the only human beings left (at least in that part of the world) after The Flood. (Genesis 6:18, 7:7, 9:1,7,18-19). Whether or not the Bible allows for a “local” Flood and other human beings in other parts of the world, Genesis 6:19 portrays least the people in that part of the world as all descended from Noah’s family. That would mean that the area (or the entire world) was repopulated through pairing up people who were no more distant than first cousins, coming from a pool of no more than eight total ancestors (Noah, his wife, and the parents of each of Noah's three sons.)

In the Biblical narrative, it wasn’t until much later that the first prohibition was placed on incest, in Leviticus, along with many other prohibitions (prohibitions on mixing fabrics, for example) that may have been listed to distinguish Israel from the other nations/tribes surrounding it. The narrative describes tribes who have left Egypt, where incest was common and accepted, and surrounded by other nations/tribes where incest was common and accepted. These were laws for the ancient theocracy of Israel. Also of note is that the concept of rights for women and children was very different than it is now; same goes for protecting the elderly. There was no domestic violence shelter, no secular county or state department with social workers attempting to protect people against child abuse or elderly abuse.  Children were literally the property of their parents to do with almost anything they wanted (note that the Torah says that parents must get permission from an authority to kill a disobedient child; presumably, there was no such requirement before.) As such, prohibitions on incest could have often been about preventing sexual assault or molestation.


However, applying the Biblical prohibitions to consensual sex, very few people who consider the Bible as an authority in their lives actually live by Mosaic law, nor want Mosaic law as national or state/province law. Secular laws should not keep any consenting adults from having sex or getting married.

Incest has always been a theme in literature and storytelling. See: Greek mythology. The fact is, incest has always been a part of life, in all socioeconomic and geographic areas. Even though a majority of people don't get involved, enough people do get involved in consensual incest that you know people who are involved.

Marrying a first cousin is legal and common in much of the world today, and for thousands of years most people married a first, second, or third cousin, once or twice removed or not.

From the perspective of science, DNA reveals inbreeding, and thus incest, in our past. In some cases, it might have helped to spread helpful characteristics.

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Posted in: brother-sister,children,consanguineous,cousins,human origins,incest,media,myths,religion,siblings

Cousins Can't Love Each Other Because it Makes Gay Babies

Or so says someone by the name of  Ropafadzo Mapimhidze writing at newsday.co.zw about the cruel treatment (including criminal conviction) recently of a couple of consenting adults in Zimbabwe, prosecuted for loving each other while being first cousins. You know, like hundred of millions of other people throughout history and alive today and legally married.

This story has generated so much debate and I decided to do a bit of research on reasons why incest is taboo, and why incest occurs despite the prohibition. And what the consequences are.

Where this is taboo, it is because of superstition, ignorance, legislative inertia, and control. It happens anyway because consenting adults love each other more than they pay attention to following unjust laws.

Such children can be born with extra toes, three eyes, and they can also grow to become homosexual, they may also have a low IQ and a potential to mentally harm future offspring, says the website. It also notes that such children can become people who are not able to interact with others or express love.

First of all, they were not prosecuted for having children. They were prosecuted for having sex. There is a difference. Also, all the columnist described above happens with unrelated lovers, too. In fact, we do not prevent people with obvious, serious, genetic diseases and birth defects from dating, having sex, having children, or marrying. But there are hundreds of millions of children from first cousins who are healthy, attractive, bright, and very social. Finally, there's nothing wrong with being gay.

The New York Times recently reported that first cousins are somewhat more likely than unrelated parents to have a child with a serious birth defect, mental retardation or genetic disease, but their increased risk is nowhere near as large as most people think, the newspaper quoted research done by some scientists.

But who needs scientists when we can listen to bigotry instead?

At least the piece does mention Genetic Sexual Attraction. Then it goes on to...

“Traditionally, such matters were dealt with by chiefs who then would find the rightful people to raise products of incest. We have to go back to our roots and see how best these matters can be dealt with the Zimbabwean way because these children are innocent victims of incest,” Kandiero said.

You know what makes children the biggest victims? When strangers use the power of unjust laws to force their parents apart and break up their home and brand their parents as criminals.

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Posted in: Africa,breaking up homes,children,consanguineous,cousins,GSA,lack of equality harms,myths,persecution,prejudice,prosecution,stigma,Zimbabwe

Rinella on Rights

The brilliant, talented, and lovely author Diane Rinella has just blogged about why we deny people their rights.

We don’t deny people their rights because we want to, we do it because they are in situations that either we don’t understand or can’t comprehend. We all know of the struggles that homosexuals have faced to gain the right to marry and be treated as equals. Every day we see it on the news and we experience it with our friends. Therefore, it is very easy to analyze the subject. However, what if the situation is something that you don’t think about? It’s a type of relationship that is happening around you, yet you’re completely unaware of it because those involved are living in shadows. The truth is, not only do you know people who are or have been involved in relationships you can’t fathom, you also know people who are being denied of their rights.

Go read the whole thing. Please!

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Posted in: allies,children,consanguineous,LGBT,marriage equality,polyamory,solidarity,stigma

Zimbabwe Still Prosecuting Consenting Adults

From allafrica.com comes this report of the criminal prosecution of first cousins for the "crime" of loving each other.

Two cousins who were involved in an incestuous relationship which resulted in the birth of a girl and current pregnancy will perform 630 hours of community service. The two's fathers are brothers and traditionally are expected to treat each other as brother and sister. Ashley Feremenga (19) and her cousin Robson Feremenga (21) were living as husband and wife in Dzivaresekwa before neighbours alerted Ashley's father Jonasi.

I wonder what the love lives of those neighbors are like... if they have a love life in the first place. Must not be very fulfilling if they have time to rat people out for loving each other.

I'm sure their child is healthy. Otherwise, you can be sure this report would have noted any problems.

The duo was convicted after their own plea of guilt when they appeared before Harare magistrate Mr Aidonia Masawi who sentenced them to a 36 month-imprisonment term.

What a waste of the court.

Ashley's father Jonasi only came to know about their relationship after being advised by his neighbours.

He filed a police report leading to their arrest.

Rat. The lovers should keep his grandchildren away from him.

Fortunately, very few US states have ridiculous laws criminalizing consensual sex between first cousins. About half of US states will legally marry first cousins, and such marriages are common in many countries today, and have been very common throughout history. Prosecuting consenting adults for loving each other is outrageous.

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Posted in: Africa,breaking up homes,children,consanguineous,courts,cousins,family reaction,lack of equality harms,love,prejudice,prosecution,Zimbabwe

Update on Zambia Attack on Family

Bertha Chipapuka, 35, with her 11-month-old baby and her ‘brotherly’ husband Mukuwa Nicholas Bulaya, 38, appeared before Serenje Magistrate’s Court for incest.

Authorities in Zambia continue with their attack on a family, which we wrote about here before. Chambo Ng'uni reports at daily-mail.co.zm...

SCORES of residents yesterday thronged the Serenje Magistrate’s Court to hear the case of incest involving Mukuwa Nicholas Bulaya and his younger sister Bertha Mwenda Chipapuka. 

Some residents arrived at Serenje Magistrate’s Court before 08:00 hours and scrambled for a few seats inside the courtroom when the doors were opened while others stood on the doorway and windows to hear the case.

So much interest. Are they voyeurs?

Mr Ngosa said the court decided to hear the cases against Bulaya and Chipapuka separately in the interest of justice since the two siblings are separately charged.

And the victim is....? Is...? No victim! No crime!

“I am asking for my sister to be released so that she can look for the things that the child needs and also bring me food and soap since no one from our family has visited us since we were arrested,” Bulaya said.

Mr Ngosa rejected the application and told Bulaya that he had no powers to release his sister (Chipapuka) because her case was being heard by another court.

Infuriating.

Let them go and apologize for ever interfering. Of course, even if that happened, their lives have been ruined by the outrageous bigotry and invasion of privacy to which they're being subjected. There is no good reason for this to be a matter for law enforcement to begin with.

Ten Myths About Sibling Consanguinamory

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Posted in: Africa,breaking up homes,brother-sister,children,consanguineous,family reaction,GSA,incest,lack of equality harms,love,prejudice,prosecution,siblings

A Polyamorous Woman Denied Her Right to Marry

By my count, this is the twenty-ninth ongoing relationship I've covered through exclusive interviews in which the lovers are denied the freedom to be open about their love and are denied their fundamental right to marry.

Zoey is a beautiful young woman, someone you might give a nod and smile to if you saw her shopping in your local store. If you want to see her NOT SAFE FOR WORK Tumblr, you can find it here.


Read the interview below and ask yourself if there is one good reason her right to love the adults she does should be denied.


*****


FULL MARRIAGE EQUALITY: Describe your background.

Zoey: I am almost 23. I am in a type of polyamory/open relationship with my girlfriend Tess (almost 25) and my boyfriend Jack (almost 24). These are our fake names used for anonymous purposes only of course.


FME: Are you legally married or have you ever been legally married?

No, I am not married. I have not ever been married either.


FME: How would you describe your sexual orientation... are you heterosexual, bisexual, what?

I am bisexual.


FME: You currently live with…?

My boyfriend Jack, Girlfriend Tess, our 3 kids, Jack’s mother and his younger sister.


FME: Please describe your polyamorous relationship.

Neither I nor Tess get jealous if we have one-on-one time with Jack. But, there is always time for some group play. Jack even prefers if all three of us make love together. As for how things work, it’s simple, really. Jack has the job in the relationship and Tess and I watch the kids - for now. I’ve been trying to get a job as well so that I can help him with the bills. It’s seems unfair to me that he has to support the 6 of us by himself.


FME: How did this polycule form? Was it a sudden event or a gradual process? Was there a clear initiator?

Originally, I met Jack when we were both working at a haunted house. At the time I was currently in a monogamous relationship with a guy that I used to go to school with, who was also working at the same place but in a different part of the attraction. Jack was very flirty and silly. I clicked with him instantly. He told me a little bit about himself and how he had kids and a girlfriend that was bisexual. I confessed to him that I was also bisexual. We became close friends.

After the season was over I went back to my life with my boyfriend. A lot of drama started between me and my boyfriend’s mother. She found out that I was bisexual because she googled my name. What she didn’t know was that it was a different ‘Zoey’ that she found but, she’s the kind of person where once her mind was set there was no changing it. She was disgusted with me and forced my boyfriend to kick me out. I ended up moving in with my dad and that’s when I got back in touch with Jack. I had a friend request from him on my Facebook. We talked for about a month then he invited me over one random September day. That was when everything fell into place. We all clicked and I’ll admit, it was a sudden occurrence. But, it’s one that I will never regret or forget.


FME: Describe your relationship now.

Now our relationship is more refined and unrevealed except the occasional hugs and kisses but at night when our kids are asleep it’s still very sexual and romantic.

In the aspect of the 3 children that are in our relationship, I am basically a 'step-mother' to Tess's two kids and she is the 'step-mother' to my son. Jack is simply daddy to all of them. It works out wonderfully. In the future Jack and I would like to have more kids. Tess is physically unable to birth any more children so she has been thinking about adoption, and so have I. We all have always wanted a big family and every child deserves a home and a loving family that they can call their own. But, because of our current governmental standing... I don't know how well that would work, if at all.


FME: What are the sleeping arrangements? Is there a schedule?

Tess sleeps by the wall, Jack is in the middle and I sleep on the outside. We share a King sized bed. The only schedules that we follow are Jack’s work schedule and the schedule of our kids. Only one of them is old enough for school and the other two is the job of us stay-at-home mammas.


FME: What kind of rules/agreements for maintaining the relationship are there?

There’s really no rules. We all get along so well.


FME: What is your past experience with polyamory, if any?

Until this relationship that I’m currently in, I had no prior experience. And, I will admit that in the beginning Tess and I had our fair share of jealousy. She wasn’t used to a polyamory relationship either.


FME: Who are you out to? How were you outed? What has been the reaction by family, friends, neighbors, coworkers, random strangers, etc.?

Random strangers are funny. They give us the strangest looks when we’re out together. Me, Tess and Jack have gotten to the point where we don’t care about their looks or we just tell them to f--- off! That’s only if they are being rude though. For everyone else I just posted a status update on Facebook. Although, with my mother I sent a private message. At first she did not accept as easily as the rest but, after some time and my son (her grandson) she was much more accepting.


FME: Is there anything you've had to do to hide the nature of your relationship from anyone? Having to hide can be a lot of trouble. Are there other disadvantages to being in a relationship like this? Conversely, do you think polyamorous relationships have some advantages?

The only people we’ve had to hide from is the government. But, the reason to that is obvious. And, in the sexual aspect there is an advantage for Jack. If one of us is on our period then he can play around with the other. His only disadvantage is when we’re both on our period at the same time.


FME: What do you want to say to people who disapprove of your relationship, or disapprove of anyone having this kind of relationship? What's your reply to those who would say that women are victimized by a relationship like this?

I would say that they are wrong! We are not victimized by our relationship. The only way that I would see us as a ‘victim’ is if Jack was abusive. Which he is NOT!


FME: Can you think of anything that would make relationships like this inherently wrong?

I can’t think of anything wrong with my relationship. Unless it’s abusive, like I have stated above.


FME: If you could have a legal polyamorous marriage, and that included protections against discrimination, harassment, etc., would you? Or even if you do not want a legal polyamorous marriage, do you see a need for protections against discrimination?

Yes, we’ve all already discussed marriage. We ALL want to be united. Both Tess and I have already stated that if we were to get married we would take Jacks last name. And, if we ever decided not to get married for whatever reason then protection against discrimination would be wonderful.


FME: What advice do you have for someone who thinks they may be polyamorous or may want to enter into a polyamorous relationship?

Make sure that the people that will be involved in the polyamorous relationship get along without any type of jealousy. Major conflicts would be good to avoid but, there’s no avoiding tiny little conflicts. Every relationship, whether it be polyamorous, monogamous, or otherwise will have some type of little conflicts. It’s unavoidable.


FME: What advice do you have for family members and friends who are having trouble coming to grips with the reality of their family member or friend being polyamorous?

If you need any other kind of advice you can contact us online at our blog. If you would like to talk to a specific person then specify the name with your message please.


FME: Do you know/meet up with other polyamorous families?

No, we do not, but I think it would be fun to be able to hang out with other like-minded families.


FME: Any plans for the future?

As of now, our only plan is to keep living life happy. The way we are now with no interruptions from the government trying to break us apart. If we are ever able to get married then that would be our next future plan.


FME: Anything else you want to add?

If you would like to talk to us personally you may do so at our blog. Just be sure to specify whom you are talking too in your message.  All three of us run the blog together and if you did not specify it can be confusing.

*****

Here is their NOT SAFE FOR WORK Tumblr blog:
http://ourtriplesexstory.tumblr.com/

There you have it. Consenting adults who aren't hurting anyone, but who have to hide their love, denied their right to marry.

Why should they be denied their rights? There’s no good reason.We need to recognize that all adults should be free to be with any and all consenting adults as they mutually consent, and part of doing that is adopting relationship rights for all, including full marriage equality sooner rather than later. People are being hurt because of a denial of their basic human rights to love each other freely.

You can read other interviews I have done here.

If you are in a relationship like this and are looking for help or others you can talk with, read this.

Thank you to Zoey for doing this interview!

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Posted in: bisexual,children,coming out,family reaction,freedom to marry,lack of equality harms,love,open,polyamory,polygamy,polygyny,triads

We Get Letters

This blog is visited by people all over the planet, and welcomes comments and I also welcome your emails and private messages. Everyone once in a while I publish some of those messages in a blog entry, which is what I’m I’m doing here.

Responding to an entry on hostility towards as grandfather-granddaughter couple, Anonymous wrote...

I would like to see an unbiased discussion of the ethical issues involved in grandfather/grandaughter mutual erotic atttaction and expression. With the ready availability of contraception, the fear of consanguinous offspring being possible is set aside. The likely negative reaction from other family members is still a very serious issue as is that of friends, etc. If the granddaughter is at or above the age of consent, the "between consenting adults" rule s h o u l d reign, but the many negative consequences would seem to outweigh the "reward."

Serious study of consanguinamorous relationships would be great.

After "Intergenerational Relationships Can Work," Anonymous wrote...

My wife and I, both 62, are in a committed relationship with a 34 year old man. This has been the most energizing invigorating experience imaginable. Jealously has never been an issue, and my wife believes that she is the luckiest woman on the planet because we love spoiling the crap out of her. Although we two guys are not bi, we are completely comfortable hugging, kissing and cuddling in bed with my wife in middle.

I asked if Jenny Erikson was stir crazy after something she wrote at TheStir on polyamory, and IchigoRadiance wrote...

 

This really caught my eye. "I can only imagine the psychological damage to a child who has to live with a revolving door of his parents’ various love interests."

This right here really has nothing to do with polyamory. Actually it sounds a lot more like what my older childhood was like. When I was in my teens after my mother divorced her abusive husband, and my, at the time step-father, she dated other men. Sometimes she dated them for long times and sometimes she dated them for short periods. Some of them had their issues, hence why she would quit dating them, so up until my eleventh grade of school, you could consider her relationships somewhat of a revolving door.

Here's the thing, while at times things were a little unstable. It wasn't because of her moving on to other men, the problems were the men themselves. By moving on, she was dumping trash, trying to find a guy that was better than all of that, and she eventually found a man who she is happy with. But she never would have found him had she stuck with any of the jerks in an attempt to keep a "stable" life.

And stable isn't exactly the word I think this person is looking for. Instead, consistent is the word. When we still lived with my ex-step-father. We had a consistent life. It masked itself as stability, but none of us were happy. It was consistent, but consistently bad.

So if say she dated more than one guy, I don't think my life or our life in general would have been all that destabilized. It might not have been consistent, but it would have been preferable to that douche who used to be her husband.

Of course, to be honest. I saw that and immediately wrote this, I went back up and saw that you talked about the revolving door as well.

IchigoRadiance also commented on "Hate Adds Pain to Genetic Sexual Attraction"...

I agree, no matter whether you both eventually end up in a relationship or not, it is best to wait until she is older.

As for if the feelings pass. I can't speak for everybody, and I myself count as someone with GSA or just someone who fell in love with his younger half-sister. But after ten years, my feelings have never disappeared. At times they have waxed and other times they have waned. But they are always there.

Anonymous self-reported after an entry on self-reporting of consanguineous sex that the first time he had sex, it was with his sister, who was three years older than him, and that they've been sexual partners for more than 12 years now, but they don't want to live together, or marry. Another person added her experiences with her brother, which included some childhood experimentation and an adult encounter.

There were a few comments left after my entry answering how common consensual incest is. One Anonymous entry recounts experimenting with his older sister and eventually moving in together as husband and wife...

Eventually after about 5 years of soul searching and testing of our love relationship,we moved to our new home as husband and wife.In our new home we had our first intercourse.It was an incredible feeling to have my thing inside her.I still love and respect her as my elder sister and abide her decisions.I always want to love her as I know she wants me only.I never want to break this relationship of love, trust,and deep understanding.We both are extremely happy together and have never felt the urge to be with someone else.We both feel extremely sad whenever we are separated for just a few hours.Now I am 55 years old and she 62 ! It has been a long journey.We have 4 daughter,three are married and well settled.while the youngest is in school.

After the entry on why consensual incest is still illegal in many places, Anonymous wrote...

The society today is rather disturbing, i see no reason that relationships between to consenting adults be illegal. As i am a female currently in a committed relationship with my [brother]. We did not grow up together due to circumstances when we were children. but after 30 years of searching for my family i found one of 5 of my siblings and the day we met was like magic, i instantly felt a fire start to burn inside and it wasnt that of us finding each other after so long it was instant love. i have waited my whole life for this feeling and the moment i saw my brother i knew he was the one.. we dont have to worry about having children cause i am fixed and we just want to be together.. is there any place we can go and have a open relationship. it pains both of us to have to hid it from everyone.. 

Liz Smith, a longtime friend of this blog, commented on an entry about female animals who mate with their close male relatives...

All I will say is that inbreeding does not automatically lead to children with problems. I have talked with people who were inbred, or who had children with family members, and I have not heard of any who had problems as a result of it. I myself had a daughter with my brother and she has turned out just fine. I am aware that constant inbreeding, generation after generation, can possibly lead to problems, but often times it is not as big a problem as many make it out to be.

IchigoRadiance commented again after that entry, too...

When people bring up the mutated baby argument, they forget that most problems arose from several generations of inbreeding. Which coincides with what you said. Most children born from consanguinamory are healthy,

Those that use cases such as royalty don't realize that that is a case where inbreeding was encouraged if not outright demanded. Most of it was to consolidate power. In the modern day, under non-abuse, most people will not choose to date or have children with a family member, and the frequency is not to be worried about. In other words, I think we would have to require inbreeding for it to become a problem. As it is, tolerance and/or acceptance won't cause it.

The other part of the coin is that our technology has improved, so we can easily tell if the child will have problems.

If people want to support eugenics, they need to do so on a consistent level and base it on more practically. They don't really care right now about the child, just filling a moral quota to show off.

Liz commented on a couple of more entries. After "Ten Myths About Sibling Consanguinamory" she wrote...

It happened between me and my brother. Why? Not because of abuse, but because we were close when younger and as we got older we fell in love. I love him, and I wish the world would accept relationships like ours. We will always be together. We have a daughter and may have more children one day. I know that we will have to explain our situation to them and help them understand, but nobody is ever going to convince me that loving my brother is wrong because I know in my heart that it is right.

After "Consanguinamory and Reproduction" she wrote...

I am in a relationship with my brother. My story is available on this blog here. My brother and I have a daughter together. She is perfectly healthy and happy, and we do plan to have more children. I've chatted with many people who had or who were incest children and they turned out fine. I believe that the risks are simply not as bad as we have been led to believe.

After "She Has Been Denied Her Freedom to Marry," Anonymous wrote...

I love what you had to say it was hard for me and my son at first but now we enjoy so much in each other. We both have one thing that turns both of us on and that is we both like the idea of us having sex with other people to. My son and I enjoy seeing each other in that way, sharing one another's love with others at times or all at the same time. This is keep all between us all. I never knew their was other family lovers like us untill now. We have changed other family's minds on this matter, once they gave it a try they agree that incest can be the most loving thing in the world to have between family members and friends alike.

And finally, after "He's on Cloud Nine," Anonymous wrote...

My mother and I began a consanguniumaous relationship with my mother when she was 48 and I was 28. Her second husband was dying of cancer and in a moment of weakness we both gave in to our urges and had sex. We were a couple for nearly six years when we decided not to risk anyone finding out so we stopped living together.

Although my mother got pregnant with our child she had a miscarriage and even though we not trying for a child my mother and I were hopeful she would get pregnant again but she began menopause and that was that.
 

We are still sexually active, even today but, like most relationships it has changed to us getting together occasionally to remember the strong love we still have for each other.

Thanks again to all who comment or who send emails or private messages.

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Posted in: brother-sister,children,consanguineous,grandfather-granddaugther,GSA,mother-son,polyamory,polyandry,pregnancy,reunion,siblings

There is Big Difference Between Love and Abuse

Candace Sutton had an article I found at heraldsun.com.au under the headline "The Australian Families That Hold Dark Secrets of Incest and Abuse." Unfortunately, for the sake of sensationalism, responsibility went out the window. This might contain triggers for some of you. Here's how the article starts...

BEHIND the door of an ordinary house in a working class Australian suburb, a man abused his three daughters over two decades, offering them to other men for sex and making them perform acts with animals. 

Inside at least three suburban houses in towns nestled in a major industrial Australian valley, one man started raping his 11-year-old daughter and then told her she was "damaged" and unlovable.

Sometimes he forced himself upon her twice a day.

For almost 30 years he kept her a virtual prisoner, fathering her four children who were all disabled.

A third case unfolded over four generations of a family which moved from state to state, always stopping in remote communities to avoid detection.

Eventually they came to rest in the hills behind a quiet rural village, where decades of inbreeding exploded into a horror story of degradation, squalor and rampant child sex under the approving gaze of three family matriarchs - a story which has shocked the world.

These are all terrible cases of child abuse, which involve various forms of abuse in addition to child rape. In this last case, the children would have had plenty of problems even if there has been no inbreeding.

Every week in communities big and small across Australia, children are sexually abused by their relatives.

And by people who aren't relatives. Either way, it is unacceptable.

The article goes on to detail child abuse situations. In the middle of all of that comes this...

Father and daughter John and Jennifer Deaves confessed on television their sex life was “absolutely fantastic”. Picture: Channel 9 Source: News Limited

Uh, What in the world is a picture and caption of a couple of ADULTS who had a CONSENSUAL relationship generated by Genetic Sexual Attraction doing in the middle of an article like this? I know Jennifer. You know what she is a victim of? Bigotry enshrined in law! In more than one way. This is not only offensive to adults who have loving, consensual relationships, it is also offensive to assault and molestation victims, because there is no comparing the situation of the Deaves to the abusive situations listed. This is highly irresponsible journalism. I doubt it was Sutton's decision, to be fair. She's just the person whose name is on the article and she probably didn't to the layout or headline.

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Posted in: Australia,children,consanguineous,GSA,incest,lack of equality harms,media,myths,prejudice,prosecution,stigma

What Do Montana and Zambia Have in Common?

Both places criminally prosecute adults for consensual sex. We told you in this posting how a family was being broken up by the prosecution of siblings who had been living as spouses. Barbara Chanda gives this infuriating update at daily-mail.co.zm...

MINISTER of Community Development, Mother and Child Health Joseph Kasonde says the ministry is assessing the plight of the abandoned children of the incestuous couple of Serenje.

Dr Katema said it was unfortunate that the innocent children have been abandoned by their extended family and the community.

Their parents shouldn't have been taken away from them in the first place!

After Nicholas Mukuwa Bulaya, 38, and Bertha Chipapuka, 35, were arrested and charged for incest, their relatives and community abandoned the five children, who are now reportedly living on their own at their parents’ farm.

This problem is one the authorities have created for themselves, and children are suffering as a result.

And yes, Montana is still going ahead with a prosecution as well, one that we told you about in this posting. Emily Foster reports at abcfoxmontana.com...

A man accused of having consensual sex with his 19-year-old daughter pleads not guilty in Missoula District Court.

Russell Smith, 48, is charged with one felony count of incest.

Court documents show Smith moved from Alaska to Missoula to live with his daughter and her roommate.

The girl's roommate called police when she learned Smith and his daughter were having sex, and were planning to get married.

The roommate is a rat. Prosecuting adults for CONSENSUAL sex is ridiculous. Let them be together, and let them marry.

Two examples of why relationship rights and full marriage equality are needed for ALL adults.

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Posted in: Africa,brother-sister,children,consanguineous,father-daughter,GSA,incest,lack of equality harms,Montana,prosecution,reunion

What Genealogists Know

With each previous generation you trace back, the maximum possible number of your genetic ancestors doubles. You can have 2 parents, up to 4 grandparents, up to 8 great-grandparents, up to 16 great-great-grandparents, etc.

On average, there are about four generations per century. For people born in the year 2000, their 8 great-great-grandparents were probably born around 1900. Sometime around 1800 their great-great-great-great-great-great-grandparents were born (there may be up to 128 of them). About 29 generations back, or roughly around the time of 1250-1300, the total number of your possible ancestors for that generation equals or exceeds the total population of the planet, which was about 500 million people.

What gives? Well, first of all, if all 500 million of those people were your ancestors, they would also be the ancestors of all of the rest of us, too.

Secondly, you probably don’t have every person alive back then as your ancestor. There wasn’t a lot of interracial or intercultural parenting going on back then. People were more isolated, more people lived in rural countrysides rather than dense urban areas, and people were not nearly as geographically or socially mobile as they are today. It was very common for a person to be born in and to die in the the same village or town, having lived all of her or his life there.

This means that for many, many, many, many generations, there was a lot of what most people would call today “inbreeding.” If your spouse wasn’t your first cousin, your spouse was likely a second or third cousin, or a second cousin-once removed, our even your double-cousin, etc. And as I’ve noted before, even if they weren’t marrying them, people were having children with siblings, aunts or uncles, etc. (Even if not having children together, what do you think went on, given that pubescent teens, like most children, were usually sharing a bedroom?) Not only did these things not destroy humanity, but in Europe, the Renaissance was birthed in these conditions.

Coming back to around 1800, very few people are likely to have 128 great-great-great-great-great-great-grandparents, just like very few of those people in 1800 had 128 of them in 1600. Because chances are, some of your recent ancestors were cousins, if not closer. If you marry your first cousin, you have no more than six genetic grandparents between you, instead of eight. If your parents are first cousins, you have six great-grandparents instead of eight.

If “inbreeding” was as detrimental as common misconception says, none of us would be here.

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Posted in: children,consanguineous,cousins,incest,myths,science,stigma

Zambia Still Prosecuting Consenting Adults

CHAMBO NG’UNI reports at daily-mail.co.zm that authorities in Zambia are wasting efforts that could go to fighting child abuse as they are instead spent on prosecuting consenting adults for loving each other.

BERTHA Mwenda Chipapuka and her elder brother Mukuwa Nicholas Bulaya yesterday appeared before the Serenje Magistrate’s Court in which the charge of incest they are facing was explained to them.

Chipapuka, 35, and Bulaya, 38, have been married for 14 years and they have five children, with their first child being 13 years and the last aged 11 months.

And...? Why are they being prosecuted for living each other? Where is the harm?

Mr Chiluba informed Chipapuka that she was facing an offence of “incest contrary to Section 159(1) of the Penal code Chapter 87 of the Laws of Zambia as read with Act number 15 of 2003”.

It is alleged that between January 1, 2000 and December 29, last year in Serenje, Chipapuka had unlawful carnal knowledge of Bulaya, who to her knowledge is her biological brother.

Why is this a crime? It shouldn't be. I wonder who ratted them out? What will become of the children with their parents being forced apart and imprisoned?

Bulaya is also alleged to have had carnal knowledge of his immediate younger sister Chipapuka and he committed the offence between January 1, 2000 and December 29, 2013.

And who exactly is the victim? Since their names are different I'm wondering if they are half-siblings and if this is a case of  Genetic Sexual Attraction. Regardless, they have been together for a long time and their marriage has lasted longer than many others. What is the problem?

The article does not mention any problems with the children, and I'm sure that would have been mentioned if there were problems. This is another example of why we need full marriage equality in every country sooner rather than later. Although this is in Zambia, prosecutions like this happen in many places around the world, including the Americas, Australia, Europe, and Asia. Nobody should be discriminated against, let alone have to live in fear of prosecution, for loving other adults.

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Posted in: Africa,brother-sister,children,consanguineous,GSA,incest,lack of equality harms,prosecution,siblings

Consanguinamory and Reproduction

One of the most common reasons given to object to the right to consanguineous relationships is what I call the "mutant baby" argument. Even some people who support the right to consanguinamory and have even engaged in consanguineous sex themselves join with bigots in being strongly against close relatives having children together because of prejudiced backlash or the increased risk of birth defects.

In regards to the prejudiced backlash, the answer is not to let bigots have their way. It is for bigots to lose their power to bully, prosecute, and break up homes. Don't want children of consanguineous parents to have a hard time? Do not give them a hard time.

In regards to the increased risk of birth defects, scientific understanding is often lacking.

Most sexual encounters do not result in a birth. Many people who have relationships or marry never have genetic children together; some people in consanguinamorous relationships choose not to. So, we must recognize the differences between sex, marriage, parenting, and reproduction, and not ban the first three because of concerns about the last one.

But let's deal with that last one.

Most births to consanguineous parents do not produce children with significant birth defects or other genetic problems; while births to other parents do sometimes have birth defects. There are happy, healthy, bright, attractive people born to close relatives who are productive members of society. We all know some, whether we know it or not, and whether they know it or not. It is that common. (Sometimes, they were conceived by an abuser, but often, not by an abuser but by mutual lovers.) We don’t prevent other people from marrying or deny them their reproductive rights based on increased odds of passing along a genetic problem or inherited disease. For example, it is entirely legal in the US and most other places for someone with Huntington's Disease to date, have sex, marry, and have genetic children. How can such rights be denied to people who are genetically healthy, simply because they are close relatives?

It is true that in general, children born to consanguineous parents have an increased chance of genetic problems than those born to nonconsanguineous parents, but the odds are still minimal. (UPDATE: Please see this wonky elaboration on Tumblr, written by a Friend of FME.) There are US states and there are countries where consanguinamory is not illegal or at least it isn't prosecuted. Sweden will legally marry half-siblings in some circumstances. A comparison of the rate of genetic problems in these places to places that criminalize and actively prosecute consanguinamory reveals no discernible increase in genetic problems in the places that embrace this relationship right.

If a natural talent or gift runs in the family, the children born to consanguineous parents will be more likely to inherit and manifest that beneficial result as well; a birth benefit. But there are increased odds of problem with births to older parents, too. There's no stigma assigned to that, and it isn't illegal for older people to date, have sex, marry, and have genetic children together.

Anyone concerned about these things should have genetic testing and counseling. People who are not close relatives can pass along health problems, too.

The "birth defects" argument also implies that people with disabilities or some other birth defect are living lives so terrible that they should never have been born at all. Yet, there are many such people who are leading happy, fulfilling, productive lives.

But a current problem, in some (not all) cases, is that in giving birth, consanguineous parents will be outing themselves to someone who is prejudiced, and there will now be evidence of their (in some places) illegal love that can be used against them.

There are consanguinamorous parents happily raising their healthy children together. But some consanguinamorous relationships face very real threats. Again, the answer is to stop the persecution and prosecution. There is no good reason to deny consenting adults their equal protection of having their relationship and reproductive rights.

Consanguinamorous or not, anyone engaging in heterosexual intercourse should be aware of the possibility of pregnancy, the various forms of birth control and other options available, and the realities if pregnancy, birth, and raising children.

With all of that in mind, let's look at this thread on a consensual incest discussion board. (The discussion is explicit, so if you have a problem with that, you are warned.)

carebear82 wrote…

I have been sexually active with my brother for 3 years now. We have sex whenever we get the chance which unfortunately is only about once a month as we live a bit of a distance apart but whenever i am home visiting family once a month we always make a point to hook up at least once and we have always been careful to use condoms but i am seriously considering letting him go "bareback" . Sex without condoms is so much better. I know the risk but i am really considering it.

Girls out there in incestland? What do you thinik? Condoms? or no condoms?

Janel responded…

Carebear...as long as you are both disease and drug free...then ditch the condoms. But, if you are fertile, then just remember that you could get pregnant...not sure if you want that or not. If you know when you ovulate, then you just don't have sex during those 36 hours......

carebear82 added…

forsure. we both know the risks but i really want him to cum inside me. i think im going to do it. i tell you the first time i took off my clothes in front of him and he slowly gently slid his cock inside me it was heaven. what an amazing feeling.

horny guy questioned…

Is 36 hours going to be a safe enough timescale to ensure 'safe' sex with your brother? I've heard of many instances where a female has concieved in the middle of her cycle, which for you could be a disaster (unless you want to have a baby with your brother)?

Maybe you could try another form of contraception-spermicidal foam, for instance?

Hope all goes well, but be careful!

Hank5 was nostalgic…

My sister and I were lovers for 3 years whilst sharing an apartment attending the same out of town university. We made love almost daily, but neither of us like condoms and from the start we did it "bareback". The first time we did it, she went to the university health clinic the following morning to get the "morning after" pill. Thereafter she went on the contraceptive pill.

For both of us making love skin-on-skin, and me pouring my semen into her uterus, was the apex of sexual enjoyment.

Just make sure that you practice safe sex so as to avoid an unwanted pregnancy.

Carebear82 updated the situation with what you could probably guess would happen…

I just wanted to let everyone know that my stupid plan to ditch the condoms has now ended in disaster as i am now pregnant with my brothers baby.on my doctors advice i did not go on the pill because of a few of the risks of the pill involved so we were practicing the "pull out" and he usually cums on my tummy or back depending what position we are in. well one stupid time he didnt pull out in time and now its gonna be pretty hard to explain to the family.

Even if he had pulled out each time, that isn’t contraception. Sperm can leave the penis well before any orgasm.


That particular discussion board, like many others was suffering from much spam and gibberish posting. I recommend instead visiting Kindred Spirits forum, registering/joining for free. But be sure to immediately read AND FOLLOW all of the rules, or you'll be kicked right off.

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Posted in: boundaries,brother-sister,children,coming out,consanguineous,FAQ,incest,lack of equality harms,love,pregnancy,prejudice,siblings

Why Ghana Needs Full Marriage Equality

Ghana not only continues to deny people their fundamental right to marry, but adults continue to be arrested and prosecuted for having consensual sex with each other. Here's the latest example I found, this time a myjoyonline.com... 

Two siblings have been remanded in Police custody for alleged incestuous relationship which produced an 18-year-old boy.

53-year-old Issifu Abubakari and 36-year-old Ramatu were arrested on Wednesday December 11, 2013 and charged with the offence.

With that age difference, it seems possible to me that they are half-siblings and it is possible that Issifu wasn't even around while Ramatu was growing up.

They are alleged to have been in a relationship for about 20 years.

That would make Ramatu 16 years old at the beginning. The age of consent in Ghana is 16.

Kumasi-based Nhyira FM's Ohemeng Tawiah reported that the couple relocated from Dawu, near Agona, to Koforidua after family members and other relatives raised suspicions about their relationship.

So they were already dealing with hostile family and having to move simply because they loved each other. Family should support, not hate.

After 20 years, relatives of the couple discovered that they had been living as husband and wife with an 18-year-old son in his first year in Senior High School.

Even though the brother and sister were summoned to the chief of their village, and made to perform some rites to 'cleanse' them, they continued to have sexual relationship, Ohemeng reported.

Well. yes, they are married except in law, and they obviously love each other. What is the sense in trying to break up a family? If they've been together for 20 years without a problem, why try to stop them? There is no good reason.

They do not mention any problem with their child, so my guess is that that child is healthy, because I'm fairly certain they would have included any significant problems experienced by him in the report. To American eyes, reading that he is 18 and in his first year at Senior High School seems strange, but it is entirely possible he wasn't started in school until later than most American students start.

So what exactly was the problem with their relationship? Other people didn't like the idea. So what? How ridiculous it is to waste resources trying to pry apart adult lovers, especially ones that apparently haven't caused any trouble for anybody. I can guarantee you there are other siblings in Ghana living as spouses, some with children together, just as there are (and always have been) all over the world. The sooner we recognize all adults should have relationship rights, including full marriage equality, the better.

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Posted in: Africa,breaking up homes,brother-sister,children,consanguineous,family reaction,Ghana,GSA,incest,lack of equality harms,love,prejudice,prosecution,siblings

Why Ghana Needs Full Marriage Equality

Ghana not only continues to deny people their fundamental right to marry, but adults continue to be arrested and prosecuted for having consensual sex with each other. Here's the latest example I found, this time a myjoyonline.com... 

Two siblings have been remanded in Police custody for alleged incestuous relationship which produced an 18-year-old boy.

53-year-old Issifu Abubakari and 36-year-old Ramatu were arrested on Wednesday December 11, 2013 and charged with the offence.

With that age difference, it seems possible to me that they are half-siblings and it is possible that Issifu wasn't even around while Ramatu was growing up.

They are alleged to have been in a relationship for about 20 years.

That would make Ramatu 16 years old at the beginning. The age of consent in Ghana is 16.

Kumasi-based Nhyira FM's Ohemeng Tawiah reported that the couple relocated from Dawu, near Agona, to Koforidua after family members and other relatives raised suspicions about their relationship.

So they were already dealing with hostile family and having to move simply because they loved each other. Family should support, not hate.

After 20 years, relatives of the couple discovered that they had been living as husband and wife with an 18-year-old son in his first year in Senior High School.

Even though the brother and sister were summoned to the chief of their village, and made to perform some rites to 'cleanse' them, they continued to have sexual relationship, Ohemeng reported.

Well. yes, they are married except in law, and they obviously love each other. What is the sense in trying to break up a family? If they've been together for 20 years without a problem, why try to stop them? There is no good reason.

They do not mention any problem with their child, so my guess is that that child is healthy, because I'm fairly certain they would have included any significant problems experienced by him in the report. To American eyes, reading that he is 18 and in his first year at Senior High School seems strange, but it is entirely possible he wasn't started in school until later than most American students start.

So what exactly was the problem with their relationship? Other people didn't like the idea. So what? How ridiculous it is to waste resources trying to pry apart adult lovers, especially ones that apparently haven't caused any trouble for anybody. I can guarantee you there are other siblings in Ghana living as spouses, some with children together, just as there are (and always have been) all over the world. The sooner we recognize all adults should have relationship rights, including full marriage equality, the better.

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Posted in: Africa,breaking up homes,brother-sister,children,consanguineous,family reaction,Ghana,GSA,incest,lack of equality harms,love,prejudice,prosecution,siblings

Gonna Need a Bigger House on the Prarie

A scientific study says polyandry pays off for female prarie dogs. As always, I note that what happens in other species isn't always applicable to humans, but this is another example refuting the claim that polyandry is "not natural." In this case, polyandry has increased the likelihood that a female will have more surviving offspring. I found this report at phys.org.

Credit: Elaine Miller Bond (elainemillerbond.com)

Mating with more than one male increases reproductive success for female prairie dogs, despite an increase in risks. This is according to a new study published in The Journal of Mammalogy by behavioral ecologist John Hoogland, Professor at the University of Maryland Center for Environmental Science's Appalachian Laboratory.

Mating entails significant costs such as increased susceptibility to predation and increased exposure to diseases and parasites. So why would a female prairie dog take the risk to mate with multiple males? The answer is simple and clear: female prairie dogs that mate with two or more males rear more offspring than those that mate with only one.

So, if you're a woman looking to have a lot of offspring, polyandry might be a strategy.

Prairie dogs are herbivorous rodents of the squirrel family, and forage aboveground from dawn until dusk. They live in colonies of territorial, contiguous family groups that contain one or two sexually mature adult males, three or four sexually mature adult females, and one or two sexually immature yearling males.

Know any families like that?

More information: "Why do female prairie dogs copulate with more than one male? Insights from long-term research" was published in the September issue of The Journal of Mammalogy: www.umces.edu/sites/default/files/Polyandry%2C%20JM%2C%20September%202013.pdf

I find science fascinating.

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Posted in: academia,children,polyamory,polyandry,polygamy,science

Gonna Need a Bigger House on the Prarie

A scientific study says polyandry pays off for female prarie dogs. As always, I note that what happens in other species isn't always applicable to humans, but this is another example refuting the claim that polyandry is "not natural." In this case, polyandry has increased the likelihood that a female will have more surviving offspring. I found this report at phys.org.

Credit: Elaine Miller Bond (elainemillerbond.com)

Mating with more than one male increases reproductive success for female prairie dogs, despite an increase in risks. This is according to a new study published in The Journal of Mammalogy by behavioral ecologist John Hoogland, Professor at the University of Maryland Center for Environmental Science's Appalachian Laboratory.

Mating entails significant costs such as increased susceptibility to predation and increased exposure to diseases and parasites. So why would a female prairie dog take the risk to mate with multiple males? The answer is simple and clear: female prairie dogs that mate with two or more males rear more offspring than those that mate with only one.

So, if you're a woman looking to have a lot of offspring, polyandry might be a strategy.

Prairie dogs are herbivorous rodents of the squirrel family, and forage aboveground from dawn until dusk. They live in colonies of territorial, contiguous family groups that contain one or two sexually mature adult males, three or four sexually mature adult females, and one or two sexually immature yearling males.

Know any families like that?

More information: "Why do female prairie dogs copulate with more than one male? Insights from long-term research" was published in the September issue of The Journal of Mammalogy: www.umces.edu/sites/default/files/Polyandry%2C%20JM%2C%20September%202013.pdf

I find science fascinating.

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Posted in: academia,children,polyamory,polyandry,polygamy,science

Is Jenny Erikson Stir Crazy?

Jenny Erikson decided to spew confusion and ignorance at thestir.cafemom.com in a piece titled "Forget Gay Marriage & Polygamy -- It's Open Marriages That Destroy Families"...

You know the story: Boy meets girl, boy marries girl, boy invites another girl into their bed, and girl is strangely ok with it, because she has her own lesbian lover on the side anyway.

Wait, what?

Welcome to polyamory, the strange perversion of what love in marriage looks like.

Perversion?

The situation described is only one example of polyamory. Polyamory takes many, many forms.



She references Showtime's Polyamory series.

They claim that polyamory is the answer to our “divorce woes.”

Greater acceptance of polyamory, but even more so full marriage equality and relationship right for all adults, is one thing that will reduce divorces. Fewer people will be pressured into marriages they shouldn't get into. Fewer married people will feel a need to divorce.

Half of all marriages end in divorce, so the best way to combat that statistic is to eradicate the stability of marriage between committed partners?

She makes the mistake of equating polyamory with destabilization. In many cases, polyamory increases stability. Need a word picture? OK. How stable in a bicycle? How stable is a tricycle?

Agree or not, at least gay and polygamous marriages show some sort of committed union between adults -- promises to stay together for life. Of course promises get broken, but how can you raise children in such chaos that no promise is ever even made, let alone attempted to be lived?

Ah, so her problem (or so she wants us to believe) is that they are not legally married. Well, support the polyamorous freedom to marry and you'll see more polyamorists get married. Meanwhile, many monogamists are together, many raising children, while unmarried.

Kids with gay parents or more than one mom will have some stuff to overcome, even if for no other reason than it’s not the societal norm -- but at least they know where they belong.

So do children of polyamorists.

When parents are committed, the child’s home life is stable. But what happens when Dad’s girlfriend, who is acting as a surrogate mother, decides it’s time for her to move on? I can only imagine the psychological damage to a child who has to live with a revolving door of his parents’ various love interests.

By "committed" she means "legally married." And yet, there are many children in unstable homes with parents who are married and professed monogamists. She writes as though there is no such thing as unilateral no-fault divorce, when it is happening every day, in every neighborhood. Many children of  "monogamous" parents "live with a revolving door" of parents' various love interests. Where is her evidence that children in polyamorous homes are suffering? She doesn't have any, because there isn't any; rather, the studies so far appear to demonstrate that children in polyamorous families do quite well. I've seen it personally. Has she bothered to see for herself?

Then readers get this question tagged on to the end...

Do you think open marriages are a viable alternative to divorce?

Open marriages and polyamory are not synonymous. But to answer the question, some divorces are going to happen regardless. Perhaps in some divorces can be avoided by opening up the marriage or transitioning to polyfidelity.

Then I saw this "about the author"...

Jenny Erikson is a conservative chick living in Southern California with her two daughters.

Two daughters. No husband? No wife? What happened to monogamous stability? What happened to commitment?

The opinion piece focuses entirely on imagined detriments to children. What about polyamorists who do not have children? What does Erikson have to say about them, I wonder?

People who equate polyamory with a lack of commitment are speaking either from ignorance or hostility. Polamory often involves more commitment than monogamy.

Polyamorous family exist, including with young children. The sooner we recognize in our laws and our lives that an adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race, or religion, should be free to share love, sex, residence, and marriage (or any of those without the others) with any and all consenting adults, the better off those families, especially the children, will be. Rather than snidely attacking the parents of these children, why not help us reach full marriage equality sooner rather than later?

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Posted in: children,freedom to marry,media,open,polyamory,prejudice