West Virginia Arrests Consenting Adults

News continues to comes out of Nicholas County, West Virgina, where two consenting adults were arrested for having consensual sex with each other. Life must be nice there if law enforcement personnel have time to care about "crimes" like this. Here's an early report by Travis Brinks at wvmetronews.com...

Two Nicholas County residents are in jail charged with incest.
Deputies in Nicholas County arrested Kelcey Nicholas, 28, and Lataura Jarrett, 21, both of Mt. Nebo Friday. 

While deputies were arresting Nicholas on a warrant for home confinement violation at his home in Mt. Nebo, they noticed inappropriate conduct between Nicholas and Jarrett, his step daughter.

Inappropriate to whom? They are consenting adults in a private residence. But notice, this was a matter of voluntarily revealing too much to law enforcement.

After further investigation, deputies learned that Nicholas had been married to Jarrett’s mother for the past five years and was still married to her.

Why was there even a need to investigate? Sounds like they are trying to bust this guy any way they can.

Both Nicholas and Jarrett admitted to having sex with each other at least seven times since July 15. 

Both were taken into custody and currently sit in the Central Regional Jail on $35,000 bond.

Since both were arrested, who is the victim? Was there any complaint on the par of Jarrett's mother? This guy is seven years older than Jarrett. He married her mother five years ago, which would have made Jarrett 16. How long was this guy around before then? He didn't raise her. They are consenting adults. What is the problem?

Jeffrey Spradlin at wowktv.com also covered the story.

Ashley B. Craig at dailymail.com picked up the news...

State code defines incest as "when such person engages in sexual intercourse or sexual intrusion with his or her father, mother, brother, sister, daughter, son, grandfather, grandmother, grandson, granddaughter, nephew, niece, uncle or aunt." If convicted, he could face five to 15 years in prison and/or a $500-to-$5,000 fine.

The law identifies a daughter as a person's natural or adoptive daughter or the daughter of a person's husband or wife. Father, in turn, is identified as a person's natural or adoptive father or the husband of his or her mother.

Wouldn't it be better to recognize that an adult has the right to have sex with any consenting adults?

Here's Travis Crum's report at wvgazette.com, offering clarification...

Before charging the pair, Shafer researched state law regarding incest and consulted Nicholas County Prosecuting Attorney James "P.K." Milam, Hopkins said. They all agreed that Nicholas and Jarrett should be arrested because of the law's definition of a daughter.

According to state law, a daughter is the natural daughter of a person's husband or wife -- and Nicholas is still married to Jarrett's mother, Hopkins said. Jarrett was about 16 when her mother married Nicholas, he said.

"If you look real close at the code side, and Sgt. Shafer is a real stickler for the details," Hopkins said, "you can look and see it does include stepdaughters."

Just because the laws are stupid enough to allow prosecution of consenting adults does not mean it is a good idea to prosecute. This is a waste of resources.

After she reached adulthood, Jarrett moved out of Nicholas' home, the sheriff said. She later got married in Summersville, he said.

Deputies charged Nicholas and Jarrett each with seven counts of incest, which is a felony that calls for a penalty of between 5 and 15 years in prison.

This is absurd.

Over at cafemom.com, this case prompted Maries_Mom23 to ask, "What do you consider to be 'incest'?" This is something I have answered here. Most of the responses at cafemom, even if they say it isn't incest, are still negative about the relationship.

Here's what I've written about steprelations.

Nicholas apparently has a record of some sort, hence the initial visit by law enforcement. However, the criminal justice system must deal with actual crimes, and not harass people who have committed crimes in the past by charging them with things like having consensual sex with another adult in the privacy of their own home.

Read more »

Posted in: father-daughter,incest,lack of equality harms,law,prejudice,prosecution,stigma,West Virginia

West Virginia Arrests Consenting Adults

News continues to comes out of Nicholas County, West Virgina, where two consenting adults were arrested for having consensual sex with each other. Life must be nice there if law enforcement personnel have time to care about "crimes" like this. Here's an early report by Travis Brinks at wvmetronews.com...

Two Nicholas County residents are in jail charged with incest.
Deputies in Nicholas County arrested Kelcey Nicholas, 28, and Lataura Jarrett, 21, both of Mt. Nebo Friday. 

While deputies were arresting Nicholas on a warrant for home confinement violation at his home in Mt. Nebo, they noticed inappropriate conduct between Nicholas and Jarrett, his step daughter.

Inappropriate to whom? They are consenting adults in a private residence. But notice, this was a matter of voluntarily revealing too much to law enforcement.

After further investigation, deputies learned that Nicholas had been married to Jarrett’s mother for the past five years and was still married to her.

Why was there even a need to investigate? Sounds like they are trying to bust this guy any way they can.

Both Nicholas and Jarrett admitted to having sex with each other at least seven times since July 15. 

Both were taken into custody and currently sit in the Central Regional Jail on $35,000 bond.

Since both were arrested, who is the victim? Was there any complaint on the par of Jarrett's mother? This guy is seven years older than Jarrett. He married her mother five years ago, which would have made Jarrett 16. How long was this guy around before then? He didn't raise her. They are consenting adults. What is the problem?

Jeffrey Spradlin at wowktv.com also covered the story.

Ashley B. Craig at dailymail.com picked up the news...

State code defines incest as "when such person engages in sexual intercourse or sexual intrusion with his or her father, mother, brother, sister, daughter, son, grandfather, grandmother, grandson, granddaughter, nephew, niece, uncle or aunt." If convicted, he could face five to 15 years in prison and/or a $500-to-$5,000 fine.

The law identifies a daughter as a person's natural or adoptive daughter or the daughter of a person's husband or wife. Father, in turn, is identified as a person's natural or adoptive father or the husband of his or her mother.

Wouldn't it be better to recognize that an adult has the right to have sex with any consenting adults?

Here's Travis Crum's report at wvgazette.com, offering clarification...

Before charging the pair, Shafer researched state law regarding incest and consulted Nicholas County Prosecuting Attorney James "P.K." Milam, Hopkins said. They all agreed that Nicholas and Jarrett should be arrested because of the law's definition of a daughter.

According to state law, a daughter is the natural daughter of a person's husband or wife -- and Nicholas is still married to Jarrett's mother, Hopkins said. Jarrett was about 16 when her mother married Nicholas, he said.

"If you look real close at the code side, and Sgt. Shafer is a real stickler for the details," Hopkins said, "you can look and see it does include stepdaughters."

Just because the laws are stupid enough to allow prosecution of consenting adults does not mean it is a good idea to prosecute. This is a waste of resources.

After she reached adulthood, Jarrett moved out of Nicholas' home, the sheriff said. She later got married in Summersville, he said.

Deputies charged Nicholas and Jarrett each with seven counts of incest, which is a felony that calls for a penalty of between 5 and 15 years in prison.

This is absurd.

Over at cafemom.com, this case prompted Maries_Mom23 to ask, "What do you consider to be 'incest'?" This is something I have answered here. Most of the responses at cafemom, even if they say it isn't incest, are still negative about the relationship.

Here's what I've written about steprelations.

Nicholas apparently has a record of some sort, hence the initial visit by law enforcement. However, the criminal justice system must deal with actual crimes, and not harass people who have committed crimes in the past by charging them with things like having consensual sex with another adult in the privacy of their own home.

Read more »

Posted in: father-daughter,incest,lack of equality harms,law,prejudice,prosecution,stigma,West Virginia

Where Are They Now?

Some people, while not themselves involved in consanguinamory, are turned on by erotica with an incest theme. Some people who are, or have been, involved in consanguinamory want nothing to do interacting with or providing masturbation material for the first group. This causes friction when these two groups intersect at incest websites. (As always, I’m referring to adult consensual sex.) Some discussion forums have deliberately maintained a policy prohibiting pornographic images or videos. Some of the antiporn sentiment within the consanguinamory community mirrors a general population antiporn sentiment that adult videos and images aren’t good representations of, or are even antithetical to, the reality of intimacy and lovemaking.

I'm not here to take sides on that issue. I try to keep this blog a safe and welcoming place to visit for all.

The rest of this entry is about a specific set of such explicit adult incest videos that have been widely circulated, as I have a curiosity about the participants. Click to read more only if you want to read or comment on this subject. [I am bumping up this entry because it is still relevant.]


As the title says, “Where are they now?” Where are the people who are in these videos, which are presented as real, rather than fictional or fantasy?

The series to which I can refer can be described as the “Incest Taboo” series, although probably many series have taken some form of that title. At least one of these has a "World Net, Inc." copyright. Last I checked, the videos were being sold at a US-based website associated with a paid-subscription forum, with two short previews of each video provided for free. The videos have been at various video-tube websites for free streaming, probably to the irritation of those selling the videos, who presumably made many of them and were first to “release” all of them.

A few examples of the videos…

Incest Taboo 1: Alex, Brandy, Cathy. They claim to be brother, sister, and sister, and I can believe it. I could also believe it if they got high right before they started recording (just a hunch I got.) They did their own camera work. This could have been made in 2001 or before.

Incest Taboo 4: Michael and Lynn. They claim to be brother and sister, and I can believe it. They also did their own camera work.

Incest Taboo 5: Barbara and Jason. They claim to be mother and son, and have identical hair color. They have someone else doing the camera work.

Some of the subsequent videos have someone from the “Incest Taboo” site interviewing the participants before the sex, during which the interviewers do the camera work. One video has a man who has difficulty getting and keeping and erection, at least in front of the cameras and watchers. That's hardly a mark of professional performer.

There are several reasons I have to wonder “Where are these people now?" Most of the participants of the videos I actually saw sound like they are from the US and perhaps Canada, where consensual adult sex between siblings and between parents and children is still illegal in most places, and subject to hateful prejudice and discrimination even where not subject to prosecution. As stupid as any laws against consensual sex are, it still seems risky to appear on video doing something that is illegal in so many places. Then again, prosecuting them, at least in the US, would be a state/local matter, and it would be difficult to prove where the “crime” actually took place, and thus proving that it took place in the prosecutor’s jurisdiction.

As I ask in the interviews I have done, I’m curious about how their relationships have fit in to the rest of their lives. What effects, if any, the videos have had on their lives? Are they still active with each other? Were any contacted by law enforcement? Did neighbors or other family members see the videos and say anything to them? One claimed brother and sister are married to other people, who apparently don’t know what they are doing with each other (cheating.) Did the spouses ever find out?

Many people are taking video of themselves having sex now, and even sharing it with the world. It’s another thing, though, for someone involved in consanguinamory to put it on video for the world to see, especially with strangers in the room.

So while I would expect they used pseudonyms in the videos, I have to wonder, where are you now, Alex, Brandy, Cathy (Incest Taboo 1,) Michael and Lynn (4), Barbara and Jason (5), Tom and Marie (6), Dre and Jessica (9), Tabitha and Brian (12), Gabe and Gretchen (13), Bobby and Jill (14), Rick and Tabitha (16) and the rest?

Anyone who has appeared in those videos or others that are presented as actual consanguinamory and can answer my questions (and anyone else for that matter), can contact me at fullmarriageequality at yahoo dot com or on Facebook.

Read more »

Posted in: brother-sister,cheating,coming out,consanguineous,father-daughter,incest,media,mother-son,polyamory,siblings,triads

Where Are They Now?

Some people, while not themselves involved in consanguinamory, are turned on by erotica with an incest theme. Some people who are, or have been, involved in consanguinamory want nothing to do interacting with or providing masturbation material for the first group. This causes friction when these two groups intersect at incest websites. (As always, I’m referring to adult consensual sex.) Some discussion forums have deliberately maintained a policy prohibiting pornographic images or videos. Some of the antiporn sentiment within the consanguinamory community mirrors a general population antiporn sentiment that adult videos and images aren’t good representations of, or are even antithetical to, the reality of intimacy and lovemaking.

I'm not here to take sides on that issue. I try to keep this blog a safe and welcoming place to visit for all.

The rest of this entry is about a specific set of such explicit adult incest videos that have been widely circulated, as I have a curiosity about the participants. Click to read more only if you want to read or comment on this subject. [I am bumping up this entry because it is still relevant.]


As the title says, “Where are they now?” Where are the people who are in these videos, which are presented as real, rather than fictional or fantasy?

The series to which I can refer can be described as the “Incest Taboo” series, although probably many series have taken some form of that title. At least one of these has a "World Net, Inc." copyright. Last I checked, the videos were being sold at a US-based website associated with a paid-subscription forum, with two short previews of each video provided for free. The videos have been at various video-tube websites for free streaming, probably to the irritation of those selling the videos, who presumably made many of them and were first to “release” all of them.

A few examples of the videos…

Incest Taboo 1: Alex, Brandy, Cathy. They claim to be brother, sister, and sister, and I can believe it. I could also believe it if they got high right before they started recording (just a hunch I got.) They did their own camera work. This could have been made in 2001 or before.

Incest Taboo 4: Michael and Lynn. They claim to be brother and sister, and I can believe it. They also did their own camera work.

Incest Taboo 5: Barbara and Jason. They claim to be mother and son, and have identical hair color. They have someone else doing the camera work.

Some of the subsequent videos have someone from the “Incest Taboo” site interviewing the participants before the sex, during which the interviewers do the camera work. One video has a man who has difficulty getting and keeping and erection, at least in front of the cameras and watchers. That's hardly a mark of professional performer.

There are several reasons I have to wonder “Where are these people now?" Most of the participants of the videos I actually saw sound like they are from the US and perhaps Canada, where consensual adult sex between siblings and between parents and children is still illegal in most places, and subject to hateful prejudice and discrimination even where not subject to prosecution. As stupid as any laws against consensual sex are, it still seems risky to appear on video doing something that is illegal in so many places. Then again, prosecuting them, at least in the US, would be a state/local matter, and it would be difficult to prove where the “crime” actually took place, and thus proving that it took place in the prosecutor’s jurisdiction.

As I ask in the interviews I have done, I’m curious about how their relationships have fit in to the rest of their lives. What effects, if any, the videos have had on their lives? Are they still active with each other? Were any contacted by law enforcement? Did neighbors or other family members see the videos and say anything to them? One claimed brother and sister are married to other people, who apparently don’t know what they are doing with each other (cheating.) Did the spouses ever find out?

Many people are taking video of themselves having sex now, and even sharing it with the world. It’s another thing, though, for someone involved in consanguinamory to put it on video for the world to see, especially with strangers in the room.

So while I would expect they used pseudonyms in the videos, I have to wonder, where are you now, Alex, Brandy, Cathy (Incest Taboo 1,) Michael and Lynn (4), Barbara and Jason (5), Tom and Marie (6), Dre and Jessica (9), Tabitha and Brian (12), Gabe and Gretchen (13), Bobby and Jill (14), Rick and Tabitha (16) and the rest?

Anyone who has appeared in those videos or others that are presented as actual consanguinamory and can answer my questions (and anyone else for that matter), can contact me at fullmarriageequality at yahoo dot com or on Facebook.

Read more »

Posted in: brother-sister,cheating,coming out,consanguineous,father-daughter,incest,media,mother-son,polyamory,siblings,triads

We Get Letters

We like to get comments on this blog. Sometimes we get such compelling and well-argued statements  like this:

You people are f----ed in the head

With such articulate statements like that, we know that full marriage equality will happen. Because there is no good argument against it.

In response to a posting about a sad search, this uplifting comment was left...

That's so sad, wow. :/
Just another reason I feel blessed with fortune to have such a wonderful union with my Dad.
I hope that they find a good resolution to their dilemma...that really is heart-wrenching.

Finally, someone left this comment after my response to the frequently asked question, "Why is incest illegal?"

I have also been in an incestuous relationship with my younger sister. ( only three years) and I also don't feel it is wrong enough to be criminalized, but her family has drove us apart ( half siblings). I'm glad there are others that think the same way I do, but I doubt I'll ever get my sister back unless things change quickly. I appreciate what you have done with this post and I hope that in time things will change for later generations so that they don't have to live in my pain. Thank you again for this article. It has given me more respect and hope for the human race. 

It's nice to know this blog is helping people.

We welcome comments, feedback, submissions, and suggestions.

Read more »

Posted in: consanguineous,father-daughter,GSA,incest,prejudice,siblings

We Get Letters

We like to get comments on this blog. Sometimes we get such compelling and well-argued statements  like this:

You people are f----ed in the head

With such articulate statements like that, we know that full marriage equality will happen. Because there is no good argument against it.

In response to a posting about a sad search, this uplifting comment was left...

That's so sad, wow. :/
Just another reason I feel blessed with fortune to have such a wonderful union with my Dad.
I hope that they find a good resolution to their dilemma...that really is heart-wrenching.

Finally, someone left this comment after my response to the frequently asked question, "Why is incest illegal?"

I have also been in an incestuous relationship with my younger sister. ( only three years) and I also don't feel it is wrong enough to be criminalized, but her family has drove us apart ( half siblings). I'm glad there are others that think the same way I do, but I doubt I'll ever get my sister back unless things change quickly. I appreciate what you have done with this post and I hope that in time things will change for later generations so that they don't have to live in my pain. Thank you again for this article. It has given me more respect and hope for the human race. 

It's nice to know this blog is helping people.

We welcome comments, feedback, submissions, and suggestions.

Read more »

Posted in: consanguineous,father-daughter,GSA,incest,prejudice,siblings

Consanguinamory and Reproduction

One of the most common reasons given to object to the right to consanguineous relationships is what I call the "mutant baby" argument. Even some people who support the right to consanguinamory and have even engaged in consanguineous sex themselves join with bigots in being strongly against close relatives having children together because of prejudiced backlash or the increased risk of birth defects.

In regards to the prejudiced backlash, the answer is not to let bigots have their way. It is for bigots to lose their power to bully, prosecute, and break up homes. Don't want children of consanguineous parents to have a hard time? Do not give them a hard time.

In regards to the increased risk of birth defects, scientific understanding is often lacking.

Most sexual encounters do not result in a birth. Many people who have relationships or marry never have genetic children together; some people in consanguinamorous relationships choose not to. So, we must recognize the differences between sex, marriage, parenting, and reproduction, and not ban the first three because of concerns about the last one.

But let's deal with that last one.

Most births to consanguineous parents do not produce children with significant birth defects or other genetic problems; while births to other parents do sometimes have birth defects. There are happy, healthy, bright, attractive people born to close relatives who are productive members of society. We all know some, whether we know it or not, and whether they know it or not. It is that common. (Sometimes, they were conceived by an abuser, but often, not by an abuser but by mutual lovers.) We don’t prevent other people from marrying or deny them their reproductive rights based on increased odds of passing along a genetic problem or inherited disease. For example, it is entirely legal in the US and most other places for someone with Huntington's Disease to date, have sex, marry, and have genetic children. How can such rights be denied to people who are genetically healthy, simply because they are close relatives?

It is true that in general, children born to consanguineous parents have an increased chance of genetic problems than those born to nonconsanguineous parents, but the odds are still minimal. There are US states and there are countries where consanguinamory is not illegal or at least it isn't prosecuted. Sweden will legally marry half-siblings in some circumstances. A comparison of the rate of genetic problems in these places to places that criminalize and actively prosecute consanguinamory reveals no discernible increase in genetic problems in the places that embrace this relationship right.

If a natural talent or gift runs in the family, the children born to consanguineous parents will be more likely to inherit and manifest that beneficial result as well; a birth benefit. But there are increased odds of problem with births to older parents, too. There's no stigma assigned to that, and it isn't illegal for older people to date, have sex, marry, and have genetic children together.

Anyone concerned about these things should have genetic testing and counseling. People who are not close relatives can pass along health problems, too.

The "birth defects" argument also implies that people with disabilities or some other birth defect are living lives so terrible that they should never have been born at all. Yet, there are many such people who are leading happy, fulfilling, productive lives.

But a current problem, in some (not all) cases, is that in giving birth, consanguineous parents will be outing themselves to someone who is prejudiced, and there will now be evidence of their (in some places) illegal love that can be used against them.

There are consanguinamorous parents happily raising their healthy children together. But some consanguinamorous relationships face very real threats. Again, the answer is to stop the persecution and prosecution. There is no good reason to deny consenting adults their equal protection of having their relationship and reproductive rights.

Consanguinamorous or not, anyone engaging in heterosexual intercourse should be aware of the possibility of pregnancy, the various forms of birth control and other options available, and the realities if pregnancy, birth, and raising children.

With all of that in mind, let's look at this thread on a consensual incest discussion board. (The discussion is explicit, so if you have a problem with that, you are warned.)

carebear82 wrote…

I have been sexually active with my brother for 3 years now. We have sex whenever we get the chance which unfortunately is only about once a month as we live a bit of a distance apart but whenever i am home visiting family once a month we always make a point to hook up at least once and we have always been careful to use condoms but i am seriously considering letting him go "bareback" . Sex without condoms is so much better. I know the risk but i am really considering it.

Girls out there in incestland? What do you thinik? Condoms? or no condoms?

Janel responded…

Carebear...as long as you are both disease and drug free...then ditch the condoms. But, if you are fertile, then just remember that you could get pregnant...not sure if you want that or not. If you know when you ovulate, then you just don't have sex during those 36 hours......

carebear82 added…

forsure. we both know the risks but i really want him to cum inside me. i think im going to do it. i tell you the first time i took off my clothes in front of him and he slowly gently slid his cock inside me it was heaven. what an amazing feeling.

horny guy questioned…

Is 36 hours going to be a safe enough timescale to ensure 'safe' sex with your brother? I've heard of many instances where a female has concieved in the middle of her cycle, which for you could be a disaster (unless you want to have a baby with your brother)?

Maybe you could try another form of contraception-spermicidal foam, for instance?

Hope all goes well, but be careful!

Hank5 was nostalgic…

My sister and I were lovers for 3 years whilst sharing an apartment attending the same out of town university. We made love almost daily, but neither of us like condoms and from the start we did it "bareback". The first time we did it, she went to the university health clinic the following morning to get the "morning after" pill. Thereafter she went on the contraceptive pill.

For both of us making love skin-on-skin, and me pouring my semen into her uterus, was the apex of sexual enjoyment.

Just make sure that you practice safe sex so as to avoid an unwanted pregnancy.

The other day, carebear82 updated the situation with what you could probably guess would happen…

I just wanted to let everyone know that my stupid plan to ditch the condoms has now ended in disaster as i am now pregnant with my brothers baby.on my doctors advice i did not go on the pill because of a few of the risks of the pill involved so we were practicing the "pull out" and he usually cums on my tummy or back depending what position we are in. well one stupid time he didnt pull out in time and now its gonna be pretty hard to explain to the family.

Even if he had pulled out each time, that isn’t contraception. Sperm can leave the penis well before any orgasm.


That particular discussion board, like many others was suffering from much spam and gibberish posting. I recommend instead visiting Kindred Spirits forum, registering/joining for free. But be sure to immediately read AND FOLLOW all of the rules, or you'll be kicked right off.

Read more »

Posted in: boundaries,brother-sister,children,coming out,consanguineous,FAQ,incest,lack of equality harms,love,pregnancy,prejudice,siblings

Octogenarian Denied Driving Privilege Goes Federal

Carl Hainer sans license.

By: Timothy P. Flynn

At age 85, Carl Hainer has not had a traffic citation in 70-years, i.e. his entire driving life.  That did not stop the Secretary of State from denying his recent renewal application on the mysterious grounds that Mr. Hainer was an unfit driver due to unspecified health reasons.

Well, apparently they messed with the wrong retired engineer.   The octogenarian from Grand Rapids is representing himself in a federal law suit he filed against the Secretary of State, presumably raising constitutional claims.

The Secretary of State has the authority to restrict or deny a driver's license based on the applicant's ability to safely operate their vehicle.  The SOS gets referrals for a driver's examination from many sources: police, family, guardians, medical care providers, concerned neighbors and even, as apparently in Hainer's case, SOS workers.

Michigan's motor vehicle code provides for a driver's re-examination whenever information comes to the SOS about that driver's ability to safely operate their vehicle.  The process balance the important liberty interest associated with the freedom to drive, and the public safety interest that all licensed drivers are capable of handling the multitude of conditions and situations that arise on a moment-by-moment basis on the road.

In Hainer's case, he claims he has been singled-out and discriminated against due to his age.  He asserts that it was all-bad from the moment he stepped into the SOS office to renew his license, and that he was treated rudely at the counter.  As for his overall health, he is puzzled as to why his license was pulled because the man is apparently in good health.

Unfortunately for Hainer, his law suit is misplaced to the extent that the State of Michigan has immunity in such matters.  It would have been better had Hainer hired a lawyer to appeal this administrative decision.

If you or a family member have experienced an adverse administrative decision affecting your driver's license, give our law firm a call for a free consultation.  We may be able to assist.

www.clarkstonlegal.com
info@clarkstonlegal.com

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Posted in: Carl Hainer,lawyer,Michigan Motor Vehicle Code,restricted driver's license,Secretary of State

Have You Stopped to Enjoy the Flowers?

If you haven't yet bought or read Diane Rinella's Flower series, you're missing out. I have made it clear how I feel about these works. I've collected some reviews from others below. Again, Love's Forbidden Flower is a novel, and Time's Forbidden Flower is the sequel novel. Love's Erotic Flower is a story, featuring characters from the novels in explicit sexual situatuons, and was released between the release of the novels. It can enjoyed as an independent work.

Bookworm Brandee at bookworkbrandee.blogspot.com had posted this about Love's back in April...

This story, as I said, deals with a topic that many would choose not to discuss. But the writing is so eloquent and lyrical, it made reading about Lily and Donovan easier. The love, anger, confusion is all rendered so poetically I tended to forget that I wasn't reading the average love story.

In August, she reviewed Erotic and interviewed Rinella...

Tell it straight, do you really believe it’s okay for two people who are related to be together?

It’s more that I think it is wrong to keep people who love each other apart. Some people search their entire lives and never find the one who completes them. What if you just happened to be born right next to that person and got to spend your entire life in happiness with them? Then what if someone said you could not be happy with that person because society thinks it is icky? No matter how you slice it, to me that is wrong.

And that's just one reason we love Rinella! But there's so much more...

What is the biggest complement you have received?
There is a website that promotes equal rights for all adult, consensual relationships that is in high support of my work.

I wonder which site that is... ;-)

I also have a permanent link to them and other helpful sites on my own website in the Friends Of Lily section: dianerinellaauthor.com/friendsoflily/

From the review...

Love's Erotic Flower is essentially erotica, it's told with Ms. Rinella's brilliantly lyrical prose. So rather than reading just raw sex, we get raw sex, depicted eloquently, between two soul mates who are very much in love.

Yup.
Brandee subsequently reviewed Time's.

Obviously, I adore Ms. Rinella's voice. Her writing is fluid and lyrical. And she constructed such a riveting story. Lily and Donovan's is a passionate, poignant and powerful tale of eternal love.

Julie reviewed Love's at newadultaddiction.com...

This is a book worth reading if only for the love story.  It’s heart-wrenching and I couldn’t imagine going through this experience because it rips their lives apart.  And the characters explain what’s happening to them far better than I ever could…

This is the review of Time's at the same site... 

If the subject matter of this series makes you uncomfortable I can just say, these books are not about sex. There are a few sex scenes, but really, this series is about love. The forbidden kind.  It makes you think of things in a whole new light, that’s for sure.  I highly recommend it if you like angsty romances with strong characters and a totally original plot.

At crystalsmanyreviews.blogspot.com there was a great interview...

Is there a message in your novel that you want readers to grasp?< br/> So many people say they believe in marriage equality but really don’t. Do you support equal rights or don’t you? Forget everything else about how you might feel about the subject and ask yourself if everyone should have the same rights, then ponder all the other stuff. If marriages could be banned because of another person’s feelings of ickiness, then all marriages are in jeopardy. Also, cast aside that birth defect argument because the chances of a woman over forty giving birth to a child with some type of issue are just as high as those in consanguineous relationships. We don’t ban women over forty from having kids. Also, you don’t need to be married to reproduce. So it all comes down to, do you believe in equal rights or don’t you?

Jessica at justabooklover.blogspot.com had this to say about Time's...

You know how sometimes you read a book and then you have NO IDEA how to explain how you feel about that book? You just know you love that book so hard and you want to say that and tell why, but you simply CANNOT find the words? I'm having one of those moments. So I'm going to try my best, but I just want you to know that I love this book so much. For real, I can't even.

Jessica interviews a character from the book here.

Time's was also reviewed at lifebecomesme.wordpress.com...

I have had the great pleasure of telling others about this series and explaining the story to them.  We should start investing in the belief that real love and happiness should be allowed for all, not just those society deems as morally correct. That liberty and equal rights are to be for ALL, not a selected few.  By developing characters that you can’t help but fall in love with, the reader is forced to look at the concept of freedom to love.  I have Lily and Donovan so entwined in my heart, there is no way I could look at them and tell them they must suffer the rest of their life and be away from the one they love just so they won’t make society uncomfortable, or worse yet, threaten traditional marriage.  I for one, do not feel my traditional marriage is threatened by two other people who take an unusual path to finding happiness and love and that is what I hope everyone gets from this series. In the book you will see how they tried not to draw attention to their situation, they just wanted to live their lives.

Autumn reviewed Erotic at martinitimes.com...

Love’s Erotic Flower is a short erotic companion to the Diane’s brilliant Love’s Forbidden Flower and if you’re a fan you know that she can write some seriously steamy erotica that will tear at your heart and this is yet another jewel in her crown.  It's both unapologetically passionate and beautiful.  

Lily and Donovan are two of my most beloved NA characters and their story will continue on with Time’s Forbidden Flower to be released on August 19th.  Don’t dare miss a single word!

Lori Zalewski reviewed Erotic at lustypenguin.com...

Although, this story can be read as a stand alone, I think that the reader will have a better appreciation of the Lily and Donovan’s love and the relationship they have with one another if Love’s Forbidden Flower is read first. Love’s Erotic Flower is a riveting glimpse into Lily and Donovan’s passionate love story that will leave readers eager for the next visit with these characters.

And finally, from the same website comes this review of Time's...

Rinella exquisitely develops multiple interrelated story lines, containing heart-wrenching plot twists, to go along with the jaw dropping ones that keep the reader fully engaged.

After reading the first two books in this series, I couldn’t wait to read this installment because I was anxious to see how the love triangle would play out, and I wasn’t disappointed.

Rinella ties up this original story line, managing to blend the happy with the sad (keep tissues handy) to create a thoroughly satisfying conclusion. Time’s Forbidden Flower is a well-executed, dramatic ending to the Forbidden Flower series.

So if you haven't read these works yet, what are you waiting for? These writings will resonate with those who have tasted consanguinamory, educate those who struggle to understand the feelings, and entertain anyone who wants to read about a struggle of lovers. Again, thanks to Diane Rinella for what she has done.

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Posted in: allies,brother-sister,consanguineous,incest,love,media,polyamory,prejudice,siblings,stigma

Have You Stopped to Enjoy the Flowers?

If you haven't yet bought or read Diane Rinella's Flower series, you're missing out. I have made it clear how I feel about these works. I've collected some reviews from others below. Again, Love's Forbidden Flower is a novel, and Time's Forbidden Flower is the sequel novel. Love's Erotic Flower is a story, featuring characters from the novels in explicit sexual situatuons, and was released between the release of the novels. It can enjoyed as an independent work.

Bookworm Brandee at bookworkbrandee.blogspot.com had posted this about Love's back in April...

This story, as I said, deals with a topic that many would choose not to discuss. But the writing is so eloquent and lyrical, it made reading about Lily and Donovan easier. The love, anger, confusion is all rendered so poetically I tended to forget that I wasn't reading the average love story.

In August, she reviewed Erotic and interviewed Rinella...

Tell it straight, do you really believe it’s okay for two people who are related to be together?

It’s more that I think it is wrong to keep people who love each other apart. Some people search their entire lives and never find the one who completes them. What if you just happened to be born right next to that person and got to spend your entire life in happiness with them? Then what if someone said you could not be happy with that person because society thinks it is icky? No matter how you slice it, to me that is wrong.

And that's just one reason we love Rinella! But there's so much more...

What is the biggest complement you have received?
There is a website that promotes equal rights for all adult, consensual relationships that is in high support of my work.

I wonder which site that is... ;-)

I also have a permanent link to them and other helpful sites on my own website in the Friends Of Lily section: dianerinellaauthor.com/friendsoflily/

From the review...

Love's Erotic Flower is essentially erotica, it's told with Ms. Rinella's brilliantly lyrical prose. So rather than reading just raw sex, we get raw sex, depicted eloquently, between two soul mates who are very much in love.

Yup.
Brandee subsequently reviewed Time's.

Obviously, I adore Ms. Rinella's voice. Her writing is fluid and lyrical. And she constructed such a riveting story. Lily and Donovan's is a passionate, poignant and powerful tale of eternal love.

Julie reviewed Love's at newadultaddiction.com...

This is a book worth reading if only for the love story.  It’s heart-wrenching and I couldn’t imagine going through this experience because it rips their lives apart.  And the characters explain what’s happening to them far better than I ever could…

This is the review of Time's at the same site... 

If the subject matter of this series makes you uncomfortable I can just say, these books are not about sex. There are a few sex scenes, but really, this series is about love. The forbidden kind.  It makes you think of things in a whole new light, that’s for sure.  I highly recommend it if you like angsty romances with strong characters and a totally original plot.

At crystalsmanyreviews.blogspot.com there was a great interview...

Is there a message in your novel that you want readers to grasp?< br/> So many people say they believe in marriage equality but really don’t. Do you support equal rights or don’t you? Forget everything else about how you might feel about the subject and ask yourself if everyone should have the same rights, then ponder all the other stuff. If marriages could be banned because of another person’s feelings of ickiness, then all marriages are in jeopardy. Also, cast aside that birth defect argument because the chances of a woman over forty giving birth to a child with some type of issue are just as high as those in consanguineous relationships. We don’t ban women over forty from having kids. Also, you don’t need to be married to reproduce. So it all comes down to, do you believe in equal rights or don’t you?

Jessica at justabooklover.blogspot.com had this to say about Time's...

You know how sometimes you read a book and then you have NO IDEA how to explain how you feel about that book? You just know you love that book so hard and you want to say that and tell why, but you simply CANNOT find the words? I'm having one of those moments. So I'm going to try my best, but I just want you to know that I love this book so much. For real, I can't even.

Jessica interviews a character from the book here.

Time's was also reviewed at lifebecomesme.wordpress.com...

I have had the great pleasure of telling others about this series and explaining the story to them.  We should start investing in the belief that real love and happiness should be allowed for all, not just those society deems as morally correct. That liberty and equal rights are to be for ALL, not a selected few.  By developing characters that you can’t help but fall in love with, the reader is forced to look at the concept of freedom to love.  I have Lily and Donovan so entwined in my heart, there is no way I could look at them and tell them they must suffer the rest of their life and be away from the one they love just so they won’t make society uncomfortable, or worse yet, threaten traditional marriage.  I for one, do not feel my traditional marriage is threatened by two other people who take an unusual path to finding happiness and love and that is what I hope everyone gets from this series. In the book you will see how they tried not to draw attention to their situation, they just wanted to live their lives.

Autumn reviewed Erotic at martinitimes.com...

Love’s Erotic Flower is a short erotic companion to the Diane’s brilliant Love’s Forbidden Flower and if you’re a fan you know that she can write some seriously steamy erotica that will tear at your heart and this is yet another jewel in her crown.  It's both unapologetically passionate and beautiful.  

Lily and Donovan are two of my most beloved NA characters and their story will continue on with Time’s Forbidden Flower to be released on August 19th.  Don’t dare miss a single word!

Lori Zalewski reviewed Erotic at lustypenguin.com...

Although, this story can be read as a stand alone, I think that the reader will have a better appreciation of the Lily and Donovan’s love and the relationship they have with one another if Love’s Forbidden Flower is read first. Love’s Erotic Flower is a riveting glimpse into Lily and Donovan’s passionate love story that will leave readers eager for the next visit with these characters.

And finally, from the same website comes this review of Time's...

Rinella exquisitely develops multiple interrelated story lines, containing heart-wrenching plot twists, to go along with the jaw dropping ones that keep the reader fully engaged.

After reading the first two books in this series, I couldn’t wait to read this installment because I was anxious to see how the love triangle would play out, and I wasn’t disappointed.

Rinella ties up this original story line, managing to blend the happy with the sad (keep tissues handy) to create a thoroughly satisfying conclusion. Time’s Forbidden Flower is a well-executed, dramatic ending to the Forbidden Flower series.

So if you haven't read these works yet, what are you waiting for? These writings will resonate with those who have tasted consanguinamory, educate those who struggle to understand the feelings, and entertain anyone who wants to read about a struggle of lovers. Again, thanks to Diane Rinella for what she has done.

Read more »

Posted in: allies,brother-sister,consanguineous,incest,love,media,polyamory,prejudice,siblings,stigma

Law School Described in Six Words

By: Timothy P. Flynn

Recently, a WSJ Law Blog post described law school in six words. The post was inspired by a law professor at Marquette University Law School who, in turn, was inspired by the master of lean prose: Ernest Hemingway.

After all, legal prose should be concise and to the point. Simple declarative sentences should be the rule in legal papers.

Hemingway is said to have once won a bet by writing a story in just six words.  His contribution, scribbled on a bar napkin, was:

• For sale: baby shoes, never worn.

Here is what the WSJ's blogger came up with to describe various facets of law school:

• For sale: law degree, no promises.
• Three years later, they weren't ready.
• You'll get hired, so they claimed.
• "But I'm tenured", the professor replied.
• The former dean pleaded not guilty.

Here is our contribution:

• Legal profession: not easy to enter. 
• A divorce lawyer? Are you sure?
• Top tier law school: good salary.
• Tier Three law school: huge debt.
• Cooley Law School; marketing in action.

To the law students and legal professionals out there among our readers, post your law school "stories" to our comments.

www.clarkstonlegal.com
info@clarkstonlegal.com

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Posted in: Cooley Law School,divorce lawyer,Ernest Hemingway,law school,Wall Street Journal

Another Casting Call For Polyamorous Lovers

If you are in a polycule of three or more people and want to be on television, here's another chance.

Posted On:	09/20/2013
Closing On:	10/20/2013
Company:	WESTCASTING

Casting Call InformationCity: Any CityState: National
“LOVE TRIADS” SEEKING POLYAMOROUS GROUPS
NEW DOCU-SERIES on a Major Network will be looking at different types of relationships. Untraditional love with more than just 2 people.
Seeking groups of 3 or more people who are in love, committed to each other and pursue their own happiness even when it is considered Taboo or not the norm.
Polyamory is the practice, desire, or acceptance of having more than one intimate relationship at a time with the knowledge and consent of everyone involved.
*We are not seeking “Swingers” but rather triads (Or groups of 3 or more) who are committed to each other. Although Polygamy is not legal this point we are seeking groups of 3 or more who are determined to live their lives regardless of public stereotypes or fears.
If you are in a committed relationship with more than one partner please email us ASAP with ALL info below~
-NAMES-PHONE NUMBER-EMAIL ADDRESS-CITY & STATE YOU LIVE-AGES OF THE THREE OR MORE PEOPLE-PHOTO or PHOTOS-ARE YOU PLANNING A COMMITMENT CEREMONY?-DO YOU ENCOUNTER BIGOTRY FOR YOUR LOVE/ RELATIONSHIP?-WHAT MAKES THE RELATIONSHIP AMAZING?-WHAT MAKES THE RELATIONSHIP CHALLENGING?
**We will discuss the pay with those selected

As always, I advise caution, even if you are out or want to come out. Television is usually about drama for the sake of selling advertising; those in control of what airs may not have the priority of depicting polyamory or involved individuals fairly or accurately.

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Posted in: media,open,polyamory

Guardianship Bills Seek to Prevent "Grannysnatching"

By:  Timothy P. Flynn

An adult guardianship is a probate court proceeding that protects an individual that cannot take care of his own affairs by appointing a fiduciary -a guardian or conservator- to care for the incapacitated individual.  In our free-society founded on individual liberties, guardianships although disfavored as a legal status, are sometimes necessary to protect individuals made vulnerable through age or mental illness.

As a Public Administrator, I have served the Oakland County Probate Court by accepting appointments as the guardian and conservator for individuals deemed by a judge to be incapacitated, but who do not have suitable family members to serve as their fiduciary.  Currently serving as guardian for just over 75 protected individuals, and for hundreds over the past decade, I have acquired vast experience in dealing with all aspects of adult guardianships and conservatorships.

Two weeks ago, companion bills were introduced in the Michigan Senate to amend the guardianship provisions of the Estates and Protected Individuals Code -Michigan's probate code- to adopt the Uniform Guardianship Jurisdiction Act.  The companion bills seek to restrict the subject matter jurisdiction of the county probate courts by adopting a complicated three-tier test to ascertain the allegedly incapacitated individual's contacts with the forum state prior to granting a guardianship.

Under the present probate code, a guardianship can be granted for any incapacitated individual physically present in Michigan.   One benefit touted by supporters of the Senate bills is prevention of conduct known as "grannysnatching" whereby a person takes a vulnerable individual into Michigan from another state and immediately files for guardianship in order to control the person's income and assets, and to prevent contact by other family members.

If adopted, the Senate bills would revise our guardianship act, making the initial establishment of a guardianship much more difficult, and complicated.  Under the present guardianship procedures there are effective safeguards already in place.  For example, prior to the establishment of a guardianship, a Guardian Ad Litem is appointed by the probate court to function as the "eyes and ears" of the court; to investigate the guardianship petition and make a recommendation to the judge.

Also, under the present law, all "interested persons" -other family members- must be served with a copy of the petition and can appear at the hearing on the petition and object to the guardianship or to the appointment of the nominated individual.  Such notice provisions, along with the GAL's report to the probate judge, operate as an effective set of safeguards against cases of reprehensible "grannysnatching".

We here at the Law Blogger see these companion bills, SB 465 and SB 466, as more trouble than they are worth.  If adopted, probate court staffs across the state will need to absorb and digest the complex provisions of the Uniform Guardianship Jurisdiction Act and the Uniform Adult Guardianship and Protective Proceedings Jurisdiction Act; this will require staff training and increase the administrative costs associated with the delivery of these public services.

Such cost and complication will come just as the Oakland County Probate Court has managed to trim staff and control expenses to stay on-track with Oakland County's perennially-balanced budget; a rarity in this day and age, especially considering that the services provided by the probate administrative staff have remained first-rate.

For these reasons, we say "no" to the companion bills and urge the Michigan Senate to leave well enough alone.  The present guardianship system in Michigan is not broken thus, it does not need to be "fixed" by a uniform act.

Related Note:  A documentary on elder abuse titled, Last Will and Embezzlement, was profiled in today's Freep.  The film, which takes a look at the ways criminals take advantage of the elderly, is playing in Clinton Township and West Bloomfield.

www.clarkstonlegal.com
info@clarkstonlegal.com

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Posted in: conservatorship,Guardian Ad Litem,guardianship,Oakland County Probate Court

19 Responses to Anti-Polyamory

Much thanks to MultipleMatch.com for running my defense of ethical nonmonogamy, such as polyamory, polygamy, and so on.

Click here to read "19 Responses for Answering Anti-Polyamory & Plural Marriage"

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Posted in: group,myths,open,polyamory,polyandry,polygamy,polygyny,prejudice,swinging

Police Required to Record Interrogation in Major Felonies

When we represent an individual accused of committing a major felony, we are mindful of the new statute in Michigan requiring police to record a custodial interrogation of that individual.  Although the statute took effect last March, some local law enforcement agencies have not been able to comply with the law due to funding limitations and budget cuts.

The express wording of the statute requires the police to make a time-stamped audio-visual recording of the entire custodial interrogation, including the Miranda warning component of the interrogation.  The statute also requires that equipment be utilized in this process that prevents editing or altering the original content of the recording.

When the police conduct a custodial interrogation for a major felony they are not required to secure the consent of the suspect, nor are they required to inform the suspect of the recording.  If the suspect objects to the recording, that is noted, and the interrogation continues unless the suspect invokes a right to have an attorney present.

Major felonies are defined in the new law as any felony that has life imprisonment, or a maximum punishment of 20-years; this includes Criminal Sexual Conduct in the 3rd degree [i.e. victim between age of 13 and 16].  In our experience with such cases, most interrogations have long been recorded.

Making a recording helps the system to the extent that such a recording makes compelling evidence at a criminal trial.  If the suspect confesses, then "the cloth is cut" as we say in the criminal defense bar.  When an accused's confession is recorded, and the criminal defense lawyer is unable to suppress the recording, a guilty plea usually results.

On the other hand, sometimes the recording depicts an individual ardently asserting their innocence, non-involvement, or an alibi.  Once produced, as required by the new statute, the defense attorney is entitled to a copy of the recorded statement.

If local law enforcement is unable to produce the major felony recording, either due to malfunctioning equipment [happens more than you would think] or because there is no equipment due to budget cuts, then the defendant is entitled to a jury instruction advising the jurors of the statutory requirement for a recording, and further advising jurors they can take the missing recording into account.

A more effective remedy, from the criminal defense perspective, is the preclusion of the substance of any unrecorded statement into evidence during the trial.  The best evidence is the actual recording of the accused's statement, not the officer's summary or re-telling of such a statement.

www.clarkstonlegal.com
info@clarkstonlegal.com

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Posted in: attorney,criminal defense lawyer,custodial interrogation,Michigan Penal Code,Miranda

His Mother Fell For Two Brothers

Someone named Thomas had a question/complaint at a certain Big Internet Portal's question-and-answer service. I would have answered his question directly, but the flaws of how the system there is set up allowed (what was probably) one person who simply didn't like my opinions to get me banned from participating. Anyway, here's what Thomas wrote...

Why did my mom get pregnant to two brothers?

My guess? Because she had sex with them without using contraception effectively. I know, I know, that's not really what he's asking...

She had me with my dad. Then slept with my dads brother and got pregnant to him 2 years after I was born, and had my sister. She wasn't married to either. They were just casual things. But could she not have picked guys who weren't related? It causes so many problems within our family because she has sex with them (seperately) sometimes. Its embarrassing when people work out that my sister and I are cousins as well as siblings. Even though its not incest they act like it is. Why is she such a ho with no consideration for her son and daughter? What makes it worse is that I see my uncle as more of a dad to me than my actual father and I wish he was. Its a messed up situation all round. All because of her.

Why would it be better to be "half-siblings and nothing" as opposed to "half-siblings and cousins?" Unless the two men were having sex with each other, there's nothing incestuous about any of this. It is not incestuous for a woman to have sex with one person and then have sex with a close relative of the first person. That other people give Thomas grief (especially about something over which he had no control) indicates they are prejudiced jerks, but it is just another example of the absurdity of the irrational "othering" of anything that some people might so much as mistake for involving consanguineous sexuality.

I would have pointed Thomas to historical traditions and to the fact that in ancient books like the Bible, some people were commanded to have sex with (and marry and have children with) the sibling of their prior spouse. Even today, continuing what can be found in the Bible and other old writings, polygynists (including a family in the media) as well as polyandrists marry and have sex with siblings. This has gone all for all of human history.

Someone being a jerk about this should be asked, "So what's wrong with that?" They might think it is strange, but so what? Would it be better that the two men she had children with be complete strangers? Why?

Here's what matters about Thomas' mother: Does she love her children?

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Posted in: lack of equality harms,polyandry,prejudice,stigma

The Royal We

A discussion is still underway at theroyalforums.com about "Incestuous Royal Marriages." This blog has noted such things before.
Kataryn started off the discussion YEARS ago...

Legally Catherine of Aragon was married incestually because she as widow of one brother married the other after the first hausband's death.

That's not considered incest in most definitions.

But that's just a formality. History has shown that Royal families did not hesitate to form very close bonds between them. While a marriage of cousin and cousin happened quite often, marriages between unles and nieces are rare - but they happened, too.

One example is the marriage of Antoinette Marie of Wuerttemberg to Ernst I. of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha. Marie's mother Antoinette of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld was the sister of the groom.

Then there are the three uncle-niece marriages of the Spanish and Austrian Habsburgs:

- Philipp II. married Anna of Austria, the daughter of his sister Marie.

- Archduke Charles II of Austria-Innerösterreich married Maria Anna of Bavaria, daughter of his sister Anna of Austria.

- Philipp IV. married Marianna of Austria, daughter of his sister Maria Anna.

As you can see, the last three uncle-niece-marriages happened in the House of Habsburg between 1550 and 1660 in the direct line leading to Philipp IV. of Spain and his wife Marianna of Austria. Their child is the sad, sick Don Carlos of Schillerian fame...

Not 100 years later, the House of Habsburg ended in the male line. But of course the marriage of Maria Theresia of Austria to Francis Stephan of Lorraine brought new blood into the family..

As I understand it, uncle-niece marriages are allowed in some places in deference to religious traditions.



Princess Agnes added...

In Portugal there are two cases of marriages to uncles, regarding the only female monarchs.

D. Maria I (1734-1816) married her uncle, Pedro de Bragança (1717-1786) who became D. Pedro III, in 1760.

Her greatgranddaughter, D. Maria II (1819-1853) married her uncle D. Miguel (1802-1866) by proxy in 1826. This marriage was annulled in 1834. This annullment had nothing to do with the close relationship between the spouses (there had been a papal dispensation) but because it had been contracted in an attempt to end the liberal civil wars. D. Miguel didn't fulfill his part of the agreement (he was on the absolutist side) and the marriage ended being annulled. D. Maria II later married Auguste of Beauharnais in 1834 by proxy and personnally in January 1835, although he died in March that year.

She finally married Fernando de Saxe-Coburg-Gotha (1816-1885) in 1836. After the birth of their first son, he became D. Fernando II.

MAfan added more about Spain...

In the Spanish Royal Family it appears that such marriages were a sort of habit:

- in 1779 Infanta Maria Amalia (Carlos IV's daughter) married her paternal uncle Infante Antonio;
- in 1816 King Fernando VII married his niece Infanta Isabel of Portugal (daughter of his sister Carlota Joaquina);
- in 1829 again King Fernando VII married his niece Princess Maria Cristina of the Two Sicilies (daughter of his sister Maria Isabel);
- in 1816 Infante Carlos married to his niece Infanta Maria Francisca of Portugal (daughter of his sister Carlota Joaquina);
- in 1838 Infante Carlos married to his niece and sister-in-law Infanta Teresa of Portugal (another daughter of his sister Carlota Joaquina, and sister of the above mentioned Isabel and Maria Francisca);
- in 1819 Infante Francisco de Paula (brother of Fernando VII) married to his niece Princess Luisa Carlotta of the Two Sicilies (daughter of his sister Isabel, and sister of the above mentioned Maria Cristina; later Francisco de Paula and Luisa's son, Francisco de Asis, married to Fernando and Maria Cristina's daughter, Queen Isabel II).

Several other descendants of these couples married among themselves.

Alison20 was confused...

It has always seemed very strange to me that no-one in the Spanish RF realised a very basic biological fact, which was that marrying close relatives was not a healthy practice. This was somethat that was understood by even the most isolated and 'primitive' human societies - who made it 'taboo' for a woman to marry a man from her own family group. Perhaps they were so blinded by their belief in their superiority that they didn't think this basic fact applied to them! :-)

Most children born to close relatives are healthy. Not all societies have had a taboo preventing consanguineous marriages. The ones who did were likely more concerned about trading their daughters away as bargaining chips. In other words, the prohibitions were for the same reason the royal families would engage in consanguineous marriages: power. Either gaining it or retaining it.

Grandduchess24 contributed some information about the Norwegian royals...

Queen maud of Norway married her maternal cousin, haakon VII since they are both grandchildren of King Christian IX of Denmark

Princess Irene of Hesse and by Rhine married her maternal cousin prince Heinrich of Prussia and had 3 sons, is that right?

Princess Victoria Melita of Saxe Coburg and Gotha had married firstly her cousin grand duke Ernst Ludwig of Hesse and had a daughter by him but died young, she secondly married her maternal cousin grand duke Cyril Vladimirovich and had two girls and one boy.

King carol II of Romania married his cousin Helen

Marc23 added about the Portugal royals...

And her son Pedro,"product" of uncle and niece was married to his own aunt Maria Francisca who was a sister to his mother and the other niece of his father,who was at the same time his grandfathers younger brother!

pacomartin gave quite a list...

Hanoverian familial relationships with consorts
King George I married his firstcousin
King George II married his 3rd cousin 1 generation removed
Prince of Wales Frederick married his 3rd cousin 1 generation removed
King George III married his 3rd cousin
King George IV married his firstcousin
King William IV married his 3rd cousin 1 generation removed
Victoria and Edward Augustus were 3rd cousins 1 generation removed
Queen Victoria married her first cousin
King Edward VII married his 3rd cousin
King George V married his 2nd cousin 1 generation removed
King Edward VIII married "Wallis, Duchess of Windsor" after he abdicated (no known relationship)
King George VI married his 13th cousin (pretty distant for two English people) They were both descended from Henry VII.
 
Queen Elizabeth II and Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh are:
2nd cousins one generation removed through common descent from King Christian IX of Denmark (died 1906) 3rd cousins through common descent from Queen Victoria (died 1901) and Prince Albert

Prince Charles is said to have proposed to his 2nd cousin, but when she turned him down he proposed to Diana (his 7th cousin once removed).

Queen Elizabeth's consanguinity index is almost zero because of the lack of any close relationship between her parents. Prince Charles is 2.03%, or about a third of the child of first cousins. Prince William and Harry have almost 0%.

theresa_225 offered...

Is Joseph, Prince of Beira and Benedita, Princess of Brazil mentioned yet? José was the son of Maria I of Portugal and her uncle, Peter III. Benedita is his aunt, being the daughter of José I of Portugal and Infanta Mariana Victoria of Spain (the parents of Maria I of Portugal).

Noble Consort Ming...

I think the Thai royal family has not been mentioned. Traditionally Thai kings had many wives including their sisters and half sisters. For example, King Rama V's four queen consorts were all his half-sisters(he had many other wives and concubines besides them as well).

Also, Kind Leonidas of Sparta and his wife Gorgo were uncle and niece. Many sources call her his half-niece(if there is such a term) since she was the daughter of his half brother.

Meraude...

The Roman emperor Claudius married his niece Agrippina the Younger, daughter of his brother Germanicus. She was the sister of emperor Caligula and there were rumours that he had an incestrous relationship with his sister Julia Drusilla, if not all of his sisters, but there is no known facts whether it's true or not.

Emperor Tiberius married his stepsister Julia the Elder, and was later adopted by Julia's father emperor Augustus, so the marriage could be seen as incestrous. The same could be said for the marriage between emperor Nero and his first wife, Claudia Octavia, the daugher of his step- and adoptive father, emperor Claudius.

norenxaq noted...

on a related theme, there was a dynasty in central india called the ikshvaku (c.200-300 AD) whose kings married their aunts

Keeping it in the caste?

The royals in Egypt, Hawaii, and elsewhere are also mentioned.

Literally all over the world, it has been common for close relatives to marry. In the US, there is a ridiculous stereotype that assigns such marriages or sexual relationships to rural southerners. But the fact is, wealthy people urban residents, and people of any socioeconomic background experience consanguinamory.

It is ridiculous that any US state has restrictions on the consanguineous freedom to marry, let alone laws criminalizing sex between first cousins. This is just one of many reasons we need full marriage equality nationwide. Adults in love who want to marry shouldn't have to hire a lawyer to figure out of they can marry where they live, or if it would be criminal for them to live together if they want to move to another state.

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Posted in: aunt-nephew,brother-sister,consanguineous,cousins,Europe,incest,India,siblings,Spain,UK,uncle-niece