Social Security Assistance for Low-Income Former Spouses

Worries about finances typically go hand in hand when one begins the divorce process.  Most couples experience serious financial concerns when looking at maintaining two separate residences with the income that once only supported a single marital household.  

During the divorce process, the “we” becomes “only me” and everything from retirement assets to the kitchen pots and pans are divvied up during the settlement process.  Typically, this means a much leaner financial lifestyle for the spouse that wasn’t the earner, at least for a transitional period.  Financial concerns are especially immediate for those who divorce later in life and who haven’t regularly earned income during the marriage.

However, the Social Security Administration may offer a silver lining to those who earn considerably less than their former spouses.  There is the possibility that a low-earner may be able to collect Social Security benefits based on the higher earnings of their former spouse.  The best part is that doing so does not impact your former spouse’s ability to collect their benefits.

In order to collect benefits based on your ex-spouses earnings, the following eligibility requirements must be met:

• You were married to your former spouse for at least 10 years and you are at least 62 years old.

• You have not remarried.  If you do remarry, you are no longer eligible to receive social security benefits based upon the earnings of a former spouse.

• The amount you would receive based upon your own earnings is less than what you would receive based upon the earnings of your former spouse.

Also, if you have been married several times, and are currently unmarried, you may be able to choose the highest yielding benefit from your ex’s as long as you meet the above-mentioned criteria.  

If your former spouse yet to apply for Social Security benefits, you may still apply and receive divorce spouse benefits as long as you meet the eligibility criteria and you have been divorced from that spouse for at least two years.

While the divorced spouse benefit is not a financial savior for everyone going through the difficult ordeal of divorce, it is important to remember that this benefit exists. Every little bit helps when trying to adjust to a new financial lifestyle.

For more information from the Social Security Administration Website, click here.

www.clarkstonlegal.com

info@clarkstonlegal.com

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Posted in: divorce,Social Security Administration,spousal benefit,SSA

Kent County Prosecutor Challenges Grand Rapids Pot Ordinance

Modeling their voter initiative on the ordinance that has been on the books in Ann Arbor for the past 35-years, Grand Rapids took a stab at de-criminalizing marijuana use and possession.  "Not so fast ...", said the Kent County Prosecutor, William Forsyth, and the GRPD.

Pot lobbyists were successful in Grand Rapids last November getting a pot de-criminalization initiative passed.  Promulgation of the city ordinance, however, has been complicated and now, litigated.

The Kent County Prosecutor claims that the ordinance cannot interfere with a state law, and has requested an injunction from a Kent County Circuit Judge.  The prosecutor's argument is that Grand Rapids cannot turn a state law into a civil infraction.

The Grand Rapids City Attorney and a lawyer for Decriminalize GR, the local pot lobby, assert that the voters passed a legal charter amendment which should now apply to those present within the city limits; just like the Ann Arbor, MI ordinance.  The Michigan Constitution, the City Attorney's argument goes, provides citizens with the authority to decide such issues by voter initiative.

The ordinance injunction issue is currently pending with Kent County Circuit Judge Paul Sullivan.  Whoever winds-up on the short end of his opinion will no doubt appeal the decision to the Michigan Court of Appeals.

www.clarkstonlegal.com
info@clarkstonlegal.com

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Posted in: Decriminalize GR,Grand Rapids,Kent County Circuit Court,marijuana,Michigan Court of Appeals,ordinance,William Forsyth

Yes, Iowa Still Prosecutes Consenting Adults

We now have an update of a criminal case out of Iowa involving adults. The previous coverage is here. As I suspected, this is a matter of sex between consenting adults and charging them with a crime for that is absurd. Randy M. Cauthron at spenderdailyreporter.com writes...

A preliminary hearing, originally scheduled for today, has been cancelled according to Clay County Attorney Mike Houchins after trial information, in an alleged incest case involving an uncle and a niece, was filed by District Court Judge Charles Borth Tuesday. Felony incest charges were filed against Elizabeth Ann Welch, 18, and Jerrold Marble, 35, Jan. 7, following an investigation initiated by the Department of Human Services and Spencer Police Department just prior to Thanksgiving.

Houchins summed up the basic facts of the investigation associated with the allegations.

"The two individuals were charged with incest. They were relatives and apparently, from the facts, it was consensual. And they were charged," Houchins said.

Let them go! It was consensual. This shouldn't be a crime.

So how did the authorities get involved? This is how...

"Law enforcement were called to the house due to a disturbance," the county attorney continued. "While they were interviewing occupants of the house, information came out that led to the charges."

Laws against consanguinamory are unjust, but they're still in effect in many places. There is nothing wrong with refusing to incriminate yourself, or even lying to avoid an unjust law. There was no need to tell law enforcement what they were doing or have done together.

Houchins indicated he doesn't anticipate any further charges associated with the specific allegations in this case.

Then drop the charges and apologize. There's no victim! Now, if one is beating up on the other, then there should be assault charges. But that's not on the table.

Read more »

Posted in: breaking up homes,consanguineous,courts,incest,Iowa,lack of equality harms,law,prosecution,uncle-niece

Yes, Iowa Still Prosecutes Consenting Adults

We now have an update of a criminal case out of Iowa involving adults. The previous coverage is here. As I suspected, this is a matter of sex between consenting adults and charging them with a crime for that is absurd. Randy M. Cauthron at spenderdailyreporter.com writes...

A preliminary hearing, originally scheduled for today, has been cancelled according to Clay County Attorney Mike Houchins after trial information, in an alleged incest case involving an uncle and a niece, was filed by District Court Judge Charles Borth Tuesday. Felony incest charges were filed against Elizabeth Ann Welch, 18, and Jerrold Marble, 35, Jan. 7, following an investigation initiated by the Department of Human Services and Spencer Police Department just prior to Thanksgiving.

Houchins summed up the basic facts of the investigation associated with the allegations.

"The two individuals were charged with incest. They were relatives and apparently, from the facts, it was consensual. And they were charged," Houchins said.

Let them go! It was consensual. This shouldn't be a crime.

So how did the authorities get involved? This is how...

"Law enforcement were called to the house due to a disturbance," the county attorney continued. "While they were interviewing occupants of the house, information came out that led to the charges."

Laws against consanguinamory are unjust, but they're still in effect in many places. There is nothing wrong with refusing to incriminate yourself, or even lying to avoid an unjust law. There was no need to tell law enforcement what they were doing or have done together.

Houchins indicated he doesn't anticipate any further charges associated with the specific allegations in this case.

Then drop the charges and apologize. There's no victim! Now, if one is beating up on the other, then there should be assault charges. But that's not on the table.

Read more »

Posted in: breaking up homes,consanguineous,courts,incest,Iowa,lack of equality harms,law,prosecution,uncle-niece

Sandra Cano Give Short Mention of GSA Situation

This short video clip sounds a lot like she's talking about her children having a Genetic Sexual Attraction situation.

Read more »

Posted in: brother-sister,consanguineous,family reaction,GSA,reunion,siblings

They Can't Seem to Provide Me Any Good Answers

And that's ironic.

As promised, here’s what happened (so far) regarding a certain Big Internet Portal “question and answer” forum.

I had been participating there for years, helping people, clearing away the cobwebs of ignorance, making friends, and often getting “thumbs up” and Best Answer in the process, along with private positive feedback. Sometimes I linked to the service here on this blog, promoting them free of charge.

I had provided many, many, many answers and had asked a grand total of two questions.

But I may never be allowed to participate there anymore, due to being suspended. (If you are still active there, feel free to copy & paste anything from this blog, including from the FAQs and Discredited Arguments page, to answer questions there.) Also, if you know of a more reasonable question & answer forum, point me to it.) Nobody there seems to have the time or inclincation to actually discuss my suspension.

Now, I do understand it is their ball. There’s no law requiring them to be reasonable, fair, sensible, or actually discuss the matter with me, instead of sending me generic copy & pasted corporatespeak. But I did want to share with you, dear readers, what happened.

The gruesome details are below.


Keep in mind that through all of what I describe below, many of my answers continued to be awarded “Best Answer” over and over again.

On Wednesday, January 16, I got an auto-generated email from the service informing me that one of my answers had been “reported”…

The answer you gave on [CENSORED] Answers was reported by the Answers community:

"This sounds like sexual harassment and sexual assault, and there is probably no effective way of handling this without getting your mother involved. I have no problems with consensual play between siblings. This doesn't sound like that; it sounds like bullying and assault."

Horrible, scary answer right?

This answer has been removed and 10 points have been deducted from your account. You may not have realized this, but all answers submitted on [CENSORED] Answers must comply with the Answers Community Guidelines.

If you believe that your answer does not violate the Answers Community Guidelines, and would like to appeal the removal of your answer, you can have your case reviewed by Answers Customer Care. You have 7 days to submit your appeal. Please be aware that if your appeal is rejected, an additional 10 points will be removed from your account.

So there you go. There’s no quote of the actual question or a link to the question or even the question category, and any such link in my own account had been removed upon the “reporting.” That puts anyone wanting to make an appeal at a disadvantage. So does the fact that there is no indication of WHICH guideline the answer is alleged to have violated.

All it takes is ONE person to wake up on the wrong side of their lonely, empty bed and report an answer, and then the person who took the time to answer is “guilty until proven innocent” and kept in the dark about who their accuser is, and risks losing even more points by appealing.

I had gotten the rare reporting notice before, and had some of those successfully appealed, but this time I ended up getting a rapid-succession of similar notices, indicating to me that some bigot had decided to check my profile for my list of answers and report a bunch of my answers. That is a flaw in their system.

Here’s the second one…

"Isn't it ridiculous that anyone would have to ask such questions about consensual affection? There should be no law against any kind or level of affection between consenting adults, regardless of their relation. It isn't anyone else's business.”

And my answer then launched in to my systematic dismantling of anti-equality arguments.

Now, I had appealed the first reporting, not realizing I was being targeted by an obsessed stalker. My appeal was rejected…

We're sorry, but upon review we found that the following answer was indeed in violation of the [CENSORED] Answers Community Guidelines:

"This sounds like sexual harassment and sexual assault, and there is probably no effective way of handling this without getting your mother involved. I have no problems with consensual play between siblings. This doesn't sound like that; it sounds like bullying and assault."

Violation Reason: Incest

Now, the question itself was about “incest.” So how can my answer be a violation because of “incest?”

So, on Thursday, January 17 I asked only my second question on this service…

Shouldn't Answer Writers Be Told Who Reported Their Answer?

If my answer is reported for violating "Community Guidelines," shouldn't I get to know WHO reported the answer AND shouldn't the person reporting the answer have to quote which part of the answer or what about the answer violates which guideline? I've given essentially the same answers to what were really the same questions, and any of my answers that have been reported have, in many other instances, been Best Answer. I put thought and effort into my answers and I am available to be contacted if someone has a problem with an answer. People can vote down answers or give their own if they don't like mine or anyone else's, so reporting an answer should take some effort and come with some accountability.

I started to get answers.

BUT… that question was then reported! (And as with answers, being reported means it immediately disappears.) And my appeal was denied! Details below.

In the meantime, I got more of my answers reported. In responding to someone who keeps posting pretty much the same question over and over again, which is something like “Woud you have sex with your sibling if someone put a gun to your head?” my answer got reported…

The answer you gave on [CENSORED] Answers was reported by the Answers community:

"Questions like this are insulting to the siblings who are in lifelong, happy, beautiful wholistic relationships. Also insulting is when some coward reports answers they don't like. Disagree? Then give a thumbs down, or write your own answer, or contact me through the information I've provided."

My first question asked, many, many months before, was reported…

The question you asked on [CENSORED] Answers was reported by the Answers community:

"Is there any good reason to still deny the polygamous freedom to marry?"

This question has been removed and 10 points have been deducted from your account. You may not have realized this, but all questions submitted on [CENSORED] Answers must comply with the Answers Community Guidelines.

If you believe that your question does not violate the Answers Community Guidelines, and would like to appeal the removal of your question, you can have your case reviewed by Answers Customer Care. You have 7 days to submit your appeal. Please be aware that if your appeal is rejected, an additional 10 points will be removed from your account.

Another answer was reported…

The answer you gave on [CENSORED] Answers was reported by the Answers community:

"You can get information about assaults/molestations by close relatives by checking with RAINN: www.rainn.org/ Those things are far different than CONSENSUAL sex, which I hope you don't consider a problem."

What in the world is offensive about that?!?

And again…

The answer you gave on [CENSORED] Answers was reported by the Answers community:

"Yes. Although the same could be said about assault/rape/molestation, I will only be addressing CONSENSUAL incest. CONSENSUAL incest happens everywhere, and always has. From rich to poor, rural to urban, royal to peasant, it goes on everywhere, including everything from youthful experimentation to lifelong spousal relationships to everything in between."

That one was actually at the Indian version of the service. Consensual incest is legal in India.

Another answer was reported, an answer I gave in response to a question about the possibility of some youthful experimentation years ago resulting in prosecution now…

The answer you gave on [CENSORED] Answers was reported by the Answers community:

"If they were both minors CLOSE IN AGE, there would likely not be charges as long as there wasn't any claim of force or coercion (and as long as some older kid or adult wasn't directing them to do it). Most experts consider that exploration or experimentation rather than exploitation…”

That all happened before my second question was reported…

The question you asked on [CENSORED] Answers was reported by the Answers community:

"Shouldn't Answer Writers Be Told Who Reported Their Answer?"

This question has been removed and 10 points have been deducted from your account. You may not have realized this, but all questions submitted on [CENSORED] Answers must comply with the Answers Community Guidelines.

If you believe that your question does not violate the Answers Community Guidelines, and would like to appeal the removal of your question, you can have your case reviewed by Answers Customer Care. You have 7 days to submit your appeal. Please be aware that if your appeal is rejected, an additional 10 points will be removed from your account.

As with the answers, no reason is given as to why it was reported.

Then another answer was reported…

The answer you gave on [CENSORED] Answers was reported by the Answers community:

"Very few people, if any, are truly addicted to sex, at least in a way that is any different than someone being "addicted" to eating a certain flavor of ice cream or doing anything else they enjoy. What you describe is someone finding out what it is that turns them on the most. It's like saying if someone subscribes to Sports Illustrated first, and then later a golfing magazine that there was some sort of "progression" of "addiction,", but really it was someone who always wanted a magazine about golf but didn't know it existed. If someone likes having sex with certain people or in a certain way, it doesn't mean they are addicted."

And another, which was in response to someone who was wondering if sibling she knew had something going on…

The answer you gave on [CENSORED] Answers was reported by the Answers community:

"In general, whatever the level of affection between adult siblings (of, it they're minors, if they are close in age), it should be up to them and nobody should interfere. There are stupid laws limited relationships in some places, but those laws need to be overturned. It is also their business if they want to tell anyone else what their level of affection is…”

Another answer reported…

The answer you gave on [CENSORED] Answers was reported by the Answers community:

"If you don't want to get someone pregnant, you should always wear a condom. As far as "incest," crossing the line would be anyone who forces themselves on anyone or molests a child, but that is true whether they are close relatives or not. There's nothing wrong with experimenting with, dating, or even marrying a FIRST cousin, let alone a second cousin. There are some countries and a little over half of US states where the bigotry against marriage equality extends to preventing first cousins from marrying, but there are many places where marrying a first cousin is legal and common. I'm not aware of any restrictions on second cousins…”

Mind you, this was all going on in a matter of minutes. Finally there was an email; with a different subject line: Violation Notice Email

You have posted content to [CENSORED] Answers in violation of our Community Guidelines or Terms of Service. As a result, your content has been deleted and 10 points have been deducted from your points total. Community Guidelines help to keep [CENSORED] Answers a safe and useful community, so we appreciate your consideration of its rules.

Question: Should incest be decriminalized around the USA?

Deleted Answer: Consensual incest should be decriminalized. An adult should be free to share love, sex, residence, and marriage with ANY consenting adults. There is no rational reason for keeping laws or taboos against consensual incest that is consistently applied to other relationships. Personal disgust or religion is only a reason why one person would not want to personally engage in what I call consanguinamory, not why someone else shouldn't do it. It isn't for everyone, but we're not all going to want to have each others' love lives, now are we? Some people try to justify their prejudice against consanguineous sex and marriage by being part-time eugenicists and saying that such relationships inevitably lead to “mutant” or “deformed” babies. This argument can be refuted on several fronts. 1. Some consanguineous relationships involve only people of the same gender. 2. Not all mixed-gender relationships birth biological children. 3. Most births to consanguineous parents do not produce children with significant birth defects or other genetic problems; while births to other parents do sometimes have birth defects. 4. We don’t prevent other people from marrying or deny them their reproductive rights based on increased odds of passing along a genetic problem or inherited disease. It is true that in general, children born to consanguineous parents have an increased chance of these problems than those born to nonconsanguineous parents, but the odds are still minimal. Unless someone is willing to deny reproductive rights and medical privacy to others and force everyone to take genetic tests and bar carriers and the congenitally disabled and women over 35 from having children, then equal protection principles prevent this from being a justification to bar this freedom of association and freedom to marry. Some say "Your sibling should not be your lover." That is not a reason. It begs the question. Many people have many relationships that have more than one aspect. Some women say their sister is their best friend. Why can’t their sister be a wife, too? Some say “There is a power differential.” This applies least of all to siblings or cousins who are close in age, but even where the power differential exists, it is not a justification for denying this freedom to sex or to marry. There is a power differential in just about any relationship, sometimes an enormous power differential. To question if consent is truly possible in these cases is insulting and demeaning. Some say “There are so many people outside of your family." There are plenty of people within one’s own race, too, but that is no reason to ban interracial marriage. So, this isn't a good reason either. Some people who say it is wrong seem to have no problem with complete strangers having sex. So get over it, all of you who want your personal disgust to dictate the lives of others.

Violation Reason: Sexually Explicit Or Offensive Content

Really?!?

Question: Please please help?!?!?

If I recall correctly, someone was asking about including incest in a novel they were writing.

Deleted Answer: Does not bother me at all, if it is consensual. If it isn't, the predator better get punished.

Violation Reason: Sexually Explicit Or Offensive Content

Huh?!?

Question: Why is incest considered wrong?

Deleted Answer: Yes, an adult should be allowed to love ANY consenting adults. Why many people consider consensual incest wrong has to do with their own personal feelings (they are not attracted to anyone in their family), superstition, tradition of sex-negative laws and repressive cultural elements, ignorance, envy, jealousy, etc…

Violation Reason: Sexually Explicit Or Offensive Content

Again, HUH?!?

Question: Should I tell my son who his biological father is?

If I recall correctly, this was from a woman who had consensual sex with her brother and bore his genetic child.

Deleted Answer: I don't see any need for you to tell your son the truth, since it doesn't appear you are going to get back together with your brother. It might open you up to legal troubles and other troubles. MOST children born to siblings are healthy. People might say he needs to know for health reasons, but that's not true. He can go to doctors and get all kinds of tests that will be better at telling him what his health risks are. This situation is more common than people realize. I know siblings who are together as spouses, raising healthy children. They should not have to hide just because other people are disgusted or disapprove.

Violation Reason: Sexually Explicit Or Offensive Content

WHERE?!? (That question was asked twice more, so I gave the same answer again and again, to the same result.)

Then, it was back to the emails with the “your answer has been reported” subject line. This one, if I recall correctly, was in response to someone asking if their consensual adult relationship is illegal, and they asked it in “Religion & Spiritually”…

The answer you gave on [CENSORED] Answers was reported by the Answers community:

"Why is this asked in R&S? I expect deletion any moment. But just in case... Laws vary from place to place. For example, the laws of US states Rhode Island and New Jersey are very progressive and this would not be illegal. Some other modern countries have no laws against this…”

That’s when the ax came down.

[CENSORED] Answers Suspension Notice
Hello Keith(fullmarriageequality)

You have posted content to [CENSORED] Answers in violation of our Community Guidelines or Terms of Service. As a result, your account has been suspended.

If you feel you were not in violation, please contact our Customer Care and tell us why.

Regards,
[CENSORED] Customer Care

Apparently, all it takes is one bigot to follow your list of answers and report enough of them in rapid succession to trigger an automatic suspension. There is no possible way to counter the “reporting” of questions this way quickly enough to avoid this automatic suspension, even if the appeals would have been sustained. This can happen to ANYONE who has answered more than a few questions. Once the suspension was in place, I couldn’t answer or ask, I couldn’t submit appeals (even has I continued to get notices that my answers were being reported) I couldn’t see my contacts, I couldn’t do anything but simply read questions & answers (the ones that haven’t been reported, anyway).

I wrote to Customer Care…

I've answered many, many questions for a couple of years now and have been respectful while doing do, and I've tried to follow Community Guidelines. Many people have chosen my answers as Best Answers and have given me thumbs up.

Someone, for some reason, is targeting me and has decided to report my answers (and questions) and since I have answered so many questions, all they had to do was start reporting all of my answers to trigger this suspension.

Having a difference of opinion is NOT a violation. Please restore my [CENSORED] Answers activity and stop the person who is stalking me.

Thank you,
-Keith

This is the “response” they sent me…

Thank you for contacting [CENSORED] Customer Care.

Your Incident ID is: [CENSORED]

• If you are reporting abuse, we appreciate your efforts to make our community better. We will investigate and take action where appropriate, and may contact you if additional information is required to complete our investigation.

• If you are submitting a request for assistance, or asking a question, we will respond as soon as possible.

Sincerely,
The [CENSORED] Customer Care Team

Then, another answer of mine was reported, and since I was suspended I couldn’t appeal. If I recall correctly, it was about a couple of people who were masturbating in front of each other, or at least in the same room…

The answer you gave on [CENSORED] Answers was reported by the Answers community:

"It isn't incest if there is no sexual contact between the two of you. But regardless, all that matters is what the two of you want. Masturbation is natural and normal and there's nothing wrong with it, whether he's doing it, or you are doing it, or you are doing it at the same time. It isn't unusual for siblings as close in age as you are to experiment and explore in front of each other or with each other, regardless of what any prudes say."

Then I got a decline of my appeal for one of the answer given to the person asking from India…

We're sorry, but upon review we found that the following answer was indeed in violation of the [CENSORED] Answers Community Guidelines:

"Yes. Although the same could be said about assault/rape/molestation, I will only be addressing CONSENSUAL incest. CONSENSUAL incest happens everywhere, and always has. From rich to poor, rural to urban, royal to peasant, it goes on everywhere, including everything from youthful experimentation to lifelong spousal relationships to everything in between."

Violation Reason: Non-Commercial Personal Site Promotion

Ah! Finally something that appears to make sense: I linked to a page on my blog. Why? It was relevant to the answer. I’d gladly link to better pages. So, if someone asks, say, a question about French History and an expert in the topic answers the question and links to his own academic paper, that would be a violation? Give me a break.

Next came word about my second question…

We're sorry, but upon review we found that the following question was indeed in violation of the [CENSORED] Answers Community Guidelines:

"Shouldn't Answer Writers Be Told Who Reported Their Answer?"

Violation Reason: Chatting / Not a Question or Answer / Incomprehensible

HUH?!?

That was all on Thursday the 17th.  On Friday I got this “response”…

Recently you requested personal assistance from our on-line support center. Below is a summary of your request and our response.

Subject
[CENSORED] Answers Suspension Notice

Discussion Thread
Response Via Email (Angus McKenzie)    01/18/2013 08:00 AM
Hello Keith,

Thank you for contacting [CENSORED].

You have posted content in violation of our Community Guidelines or [CENSORED] Terms of Service. As a result, your account has been suspended from [CENSORED] Answers, and you will no longer be able to access this service.

Uhm, gee, thanks for not explaining anything. I wrote back…

I realize that someone reported my questions and answers are being violations. I get that. However, what happened was that over the years, I've answered hundreds and hundreds, if not thousands of questions, and someone targeted me by simply going through and reporting my answers and my two questions in rapid-fire succession, this preventing me from dealing with each reporting, and apparently triggering automatically a suspension. Please tell me exactly how a question such as "Is there any good reason to still deny the polygamous freedom to marry?" or "Shouldn't Answer Writers Be Told Who Reported Their Answer?" are is a violation? (And yes, they were asked in the right place.)

I await an actual response.

Thank you,
Keith Pullman

This was their "response"…

Recently you requested personal assistance from our on-line support center. Below is a summary of your request and our response.

Subject
[CENSORED] Answers Suspension Notice

Discussion Thread
Response Via Email (Airis Lennon)    01/18/2013 04:41 PM
Hello Keith,

Thank you for contacting [CENSORED].
We have reviewed your appeal request. Upon review, we found that your content was indeed in violation of the [CENSORED] Answers Community Guidelines, [CENSORED] Community Guidelines, or the [CENSORED] Terms of Service. As a result, your content will remain removed from [CENSORED] Answers.

So on Saturday I responded…

HOW exactly is "Shouldn't Answer Writers Be Told Who Reported Their Answer?"a violation, when asked in the "[CENSORED] Answers" category? So far, I have not received any specific information other than what looks like form letters. I can only assume my suspension was automatically triggered for no other reason than ONE person not liking my opinions, and simply reporting my answers/questions in rapid-fire succession until I was suspended.

-Keith

Finally, I got yet another answer reported. Apparently it was about whether polygamy was going to be legalized or not.

The answer you gave on [CENSORED] Answers was reported by the Answers community:

"I sure hope so, because I support FULL marriage equality. The problems being blamed on polygamy are actually problems found in cultures with gender inequality, where it is patriarchal-polygyny (one husband, multiple wives) only. With gender equality, there's nothing wrong with allowing an ADULT, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race, or religion, to marry ANY consenting ADULTS. It will actually reduce abuse as victims will be less afraid of law enforcement. Right now, a woman can live with and have sex with two men, but can't legally marry both of them. What kind of sense is that???"

Terrible, right?

And then I got some more “Best Answers,” as I had been getting all long.

Go figure.

So, there you have it. If you know of a more reasonable question & answer forum, point me to it.

So, some angry bigot who hates the idea of full marriage equality and relationship rights for all adults has managed to get me suspended based on a flaw in how that forum operates. Unfortunately for that bigot, that horse is out of the barn. We WILL get equality. An adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race, or religion, will be free to share love, sex, residence, and marriage with ANY consenting adults. And there's nothing that they can do to stop us! We're on the right side of history.

Read more »

Posted in: lack of equality harms,media,persecution,prejudice

They Can't Seem to Provide Me Any Good Answers

And that's ironic.

As promised, here’s what happened (so far) regarding a certain Big Internet Portal “question and answer” forum.

I had been participating there for years, helping people, clearing away the cobwebs of ignorance, making friends, and often getting “thumbs up” and Best Answer in the process, along with private positive feedback. Sometimes I linked to the service here on this blog, promoting them free of charge.

I had provided many, many, many answers and had asked a grand total of two questions.

But I may never be allowed to participate there anymore, due to being suspended. (If you are still active there, feel free to copy & paste anything from this blog, including from the FAQs and Discredited Arguments page, to answer questions there.) Also, if you know of a more reasonable question & answer forum, point me to it.) Nobody there seems to have the time or inclincation to actually discuss my suspension.

Now, I do understand it is their ball. There’s no law requiring them to be reasonable, fair, sensible, or actually discuss the matter with me, instead of sending me generic copy & pasted corporatespeak. But I did want to share with you, dear readers, what happened.

The gruesome details are below.


Keep in mind that through all of what I describe below, many of my answers continued to be awarded “Best Answer” over and over again.

On Wednesday, January 16, I got an auto-generated email from the service informing me that one of my answers had been “reported”…

The answer you gave on [CENSORED] Answers was reported by the Answers community:

"This sounds like sexual harassment and sexual assault, and there is probably no effective way of handling this without getting your mother involved. I have no problems with consensual play between siblings. This doesn't sound like that; it sounds like bullying and assault."

Horrible, scary answer right?

This answer has been removed and 10 points have been deducted from your account. You may not have realized this, but all answers submitted on [CENSORED] Answers must comply with the Answers Community Guidelines.

If you believe that your answer does not violate the Answers Community Guidelines, and would like to appeal the removal of your answer, you can have your case reviewed by Answers Customer Care. You have 7 days to submit your appeal. Please be aware that if your appeal is rejected, an additional 10 points will be removed from your account.

So there you go. There’s no quote of the actual question or a link to the question or even the question category, and any such link in my own account had been removed upon the “reporting.” That puts anyone wanting to make an appeal at a disadvantage. So does the fact that there is no indication of WHICH guideline the answer is alleged to have violated.

All it takes is ONE person to wake up on the wrong side of their lonely, empty bed and report an answer, and then the person who took the time to answer is “guilty until proven innocent” and kept in the dark about who their accuser is, and risks losing even more points by appealing.

I had gotten the rare reporting notice before, and had some of those successfully appealed, but this time I ended up getting a rapid-succession of similar notices, indicating to me that some bigot had decided to check my profile for my list of answers and report a bunch of my answers. That is a flaw in their system.

Here’s the second one…

"Isn't it ridiculous that anyone would have to ask such questions about consensual affection? There should be no law against any kind or level of affection between consenting adults, regardless of their relation. It isn't anyone else's business.”

And my answer then launched in to my systematic dismantling of anti-equality arguments.

Now, I had appealed the first reporting, not realizing I was being targeted by an obsessed stalker. My appeal was rejected…

We're sorry, but upon review we found that the following answer was indeed in violation of the [CENSORED] Answers Community Guidelines:

"This sounds like sexual harassment and sexual assault, and there is probably no effective way of handling this without getting your mother involved. I have no problems with consensual play between siblings. This doesn't sound like that; it sounds like bullying and assault."

Violation Reason: Incest

Now, the question itself was about “incest.” So how can my answer be a violation because of “incest?”

So, on Thursday, January 17 I asked only my second question on this service…

Shouldn't Answer Writers Be Told Who Reported Their Answer?

If my answer is reported for violating "Community Guidelines," shouldn't I get to know WHO reported the answer AND shouldn't the person reporting the answer have to quote which part of the answer or what about the answer violates which guideline? I've given essentially the same answers to what were really the same questions, and any of my answers that have been reported have, in many other instances, been Best Answer. I put thought and effort into my answers and I am available to be contacted if someone has a problem with an answer. People can vote down answers or give their own if they don't like mine or anyone else's, so reporting an answer should take some effort and come with some accountability.

I started to get answers.

BUT… that question was then reported! (And as with answers, being reported means it immediately disappears.) And my appeal was denied! Details below.

In the meantime, I got more of my answers reported. In responding to someone who keeps posting pretty much the same question over and over again, which is something like “Woud you have sex with your sibling if someone put a gun to your head?” my answer got reported…

The answer you gave on [CENSORED] Answers was reported by the Answers community:

"Questions like this are insulting to the siblings who are in lifelong, happy, beautiful wholistic relationships. Also insulting is when some coward reports answers they don't like. Disagree? Then give a thumbs down, or write your own answer, or contact me through the information I've provided."

My first question asked, many, many months before, was reported…

The question you asked on [CENSORED] Answers was reported by the Answers community:

"Is there any good reason to still deny the polygamous freedom to marry?"

This question has been removed and 10 points have been deducted from your account. You may not have realized this, but all questions submitted on [CENSORED] Answers must comply with the Answers Community Guidelines.

If you believe that your question does not violate the Answers Community Guidelines, and would like to appeal the removal of your question, you can have your case reviewed by Answers Customer Care. You have 7 days to submit your appeal. Please be aware that if your appeal is rejected, an additional 10 points will be removed from your account.

Another answer was reported…

The answer you gave on [CENSORED] Answers was reported by the Answers community:

"You can get information about assaults/molestations by close relatives by checking with RAINN: www.rainn.org/ Those things are far different than CONSENSUAL sex, which I hope you don't consider a problem."

What in the world is offensive about that?!?

And again…

The answer you gave on [CENSORED] Answers was reported by the Answers community:

"Yes. Although the same could be said about assault/rape/molestation, I will only be addressing CONSENSUAL incest. CONSENSUAL incest happens everywhere, and always has. From rich to poor, rural to urban, royal to peasant, it goes on everywhere, including everything from youthful experimentation to lifelong spousal relationships to everything in between."

That one was actually at the Indian version of the service. Consensual incest is legal in India.

Another answer was reported, an answer I gave in response to a question about the possibility of some youthful experimentation years ago resulting in prosecution now…

The answer you gave on [CENSORED] Answers was reported by the Answers community:

"If they were both minors CLOSE IN AGE, there would likely not be charges as long as there wasn't any claim of force or coercion (and as long as some older kid or adult wasn't directing them to do it). Most experts consider that exploration or experimentation rather than exploitation…”

That all happened before my second question was reported…

The question you asked on [CENSORED] Answers was reported by the Answers community:

"Shouldn't Answer Writers Be Told Who Reported Their Answer?"

This question has been removed and 10 points have been deducted from your account. You may not have realized this, but all questions submitted on [CENSORED] Answers must comply with the Answers Community Guidelines.

If you believe that your question does not violate the Answers Community Guidelines, and would like to appeal the removal of your question, you can have your case reviewed by Answers Customer Care. You have 7 days to submit your appeal. Please be aware that if your appeal is rejected, an additional 10 points will be removed from your account.

As with the answers, no reason is given as to why it was reported.

Then another answer was reported…

The answer you gave on [CENSORED] Answers was reported by the Answers community:

"Very few people, if any, are truly addicted to sex, at least in a way that is any different than someone being "addicted" to eating a certain flavor of ice cream or doing anything else they enjoy. What you describe is someone finding out what it is that turns them on the most. It's like saying if someone subscribes to Sports Illustrated first, and then later a golfing magazine that there was some sort of "progression" of "addiction,", but really it was someone who always wanted a magazine about golf but didn't know it existed. If someone likes having sex with certain people or in a certain way, it doesn't mean they are addicted."

And another, which was in response to someone who was wondering if sibling she knew had something going on…

The answer you gave on [CENSORED] Answers was reported by the Answers community:

"In general, whatever the level of affection between adult siblings (of, it they're minors, if they are close in age), it should be up to them and nobody should interfere. There are stupid laws limited relationships in some places, but those laws need to be overturned. It is also their business if they want to tell anyone else what their level of affection is…”

Another answer reported…

The answer you gave on [CENSORED] Answers was reported by the Answers community:

"If you don't want to get someone pregnant, you should always wear a condom. As far as "incest," crossing the line would be anyone who forces themselves on anyone or molests a child, but that is true whether they are close relatives or not. There's nothing wrong with experimenting with, dating, or even marrying a FIRST cousin, let alone a second cousin. There are some countries and a little over half of US states where the bigotry against marriage equality extends to preventing first cousins from marrying, but there are many places where marrying a first cousin is legal and common. I'm not aware of any restrictions on second cousins…”

Mind you, this was all going on in a matter of minutes. Finally there was an email; with a different subject line: Violation Notice Email

You have posted content to [CENSORED] Answers in violation of our Community Guidelines or Terms of Service. As a result, your content has been deleted and 10 points have been deducted from your points total. Community Guidelines help to keep [CENSORED] Answers a safe and useful community, so we appreciate your consideration of its rules.

Question: Should incest be decriminalized around the USA?

Deleted Answer: Consensual incest should be decriminalized. An adult should be free to share love, sex, residence, and marriage with ANY consenting adults. There is no rational reason for keeping laws or taboos against consensual incest that is consistently applied to other relationships. Personal disgust or religion is only a reason why one person would not want to personally engage in what I call consanguinamory, not why someone else shouldn't do it. It isn't for everyone, but we're not all going to want to have each others' love lives, now are we? Some people try to justify their prejudice against consanguineous sex and marriage by being part-time eugenicists and saying that such relationships inevitably lead to “mutant” or “deformed” babies. This argument can be refuted on several fronts. 1. Some consanguineous relationships involve only people of the same gender. 2. Not all mixed-gender relationships birth biological children. 3. Most births to consanguineous parents do not produce children with significant birth defects or other genetic problems; while births to other parents do sometimes have birth defects. 4. We don’t prevent other people from marrying or deny them their reproductive rights based on increased odds of passing along a genetic problem or inherited disease. It is true that in general, children born to consanguineous parents have an increased chance of these problems than those born to nonconsanguineous parents, but the odds are still minimal. Unless someone is willing to deny reproductive rights and medical privacy to others and force everyone to take genetic tests and bar carriers and the congenitally disabled and women over 35 from having children, then equal protection principles prevent this from being a justification to bar this freedom of association and freedom to marry. Some say "Your sibling should not be your lover." That is not a reason. It begs the question. Many people have many relationships that have more than one aspect. Some women say their sister is their best friend. Why can’t their sister be a wife, too? Some say “There is a power differential.” This applies least of all to siblings or cousins who are close in age, but even where the power differential exists, it is not a justification for denying this freedom to sex or to marry. There is a power differential in just about any relationship, sometimes an enormous power differential. To question if consent is truly possible in these cases is insulting and demeaning. Some say “There are so many people outside of your family." There are plenty of people within one’s own race, too, but that is no reason to ban interracial marriage. So, this isn't a good reason either. Some people who say it is wrong seem to have no problem with complete strangers having sex. So get over it, all of you who want your personal disgust to dictate the lives of others.

Violation Reason: Sexually Explicit Or Offensive Content

Really?!?

Question: Please please help?!?!?

If I recall correctly, someone was asking about including incest in a novel they were writing.

Deleted Answer: Does not bother me at all, if it is consensual. If it isn't, the predator better get punished.

Violation Reason: Sexually Explicit Or Offensive Content

Huh?!?

Question: Why is incest considered wrong?

Deleted Answer: Yes, an adult should be allowed to love ANY consenting adults. Why many people consider consensual incest wrong has to do with their own personal feelings (they are not attracted to anyone in their family), superstition, tradition of sex-negative laws and repressive cultural elements, ignorance, envy, jealousy, etc…

Violation Reason: Sexually Explicit Or Offensive Content

Again, HUH?!?

Question: Should I tell my son who his biological father is?

If I recall correctly, this was from a woman who had consensual sex with her brother and bore his genetic child.

Deleted Answer: I don't see any need for you to tell your son the truth, since it doesn't appear you are going to get back together with your brother. It might open you up to legal troubles and other troubles. MOST children born to siblings are healthy. People might say he needs to know for health reasons, but that's not true. He can go to doctors and get all kinds of tests that will be better at telling him what his health risks are. This situation is more common than people realize. I know siblings who are together as spouses, raising healthy children. They should not have to hide just because other people are disgusted or disapprove.

Violation Reason: Sexually Explicit Or Offensive Content

WHERE?!? (That question was asked twice more, so I gave the same answer again and again, to the same result.)

Then, it was back to the emails with the “your answer has been reported” subject line. This one, if I recall correctly, was in response to someone asking if their consensual adult relationship is illegal, and they asked it in “Religion & Spiritually”…

The answer you gave on [CENSORED] Answers was reported by the Answers community:

"Why is this asked in R&S? I expect deletion any moment. But just in case... Laws vary from place to place. For example, the laws of US states Rhode Island and New Jersey are very progressive and this would not be illegal. Some other modern countries have no laws against this…”

That’s when the ax came down.

[CENSORED] Answers Suspension Notice
Hello Keith(fullmarriageequality)

You have posted content to [CENSORED] Answers in violation of our Community Guidelines or Terms of Service. As a result, your account has been suspended.

If you feel you were not in violation, please contact our Customer Care and tell us why.

Regards,
[CENSORED] Customer Care

Apparently, all it takes is one bigot to follow your list of answers and report enough of them in rapid succession to trigger an automatic suspension. There is no possible way to counter the “reporting” of questions this way quickly enough to avoid this automatic suspension, even if the appeals would have been sustained. This can happen to ANYONE who has answered more than a few questions. Once the suspension was in place, I couldn’t answer or ask, I couldn’t submit appeals (even has I continued to get notices that my answers were being reported) I couldn’t see my contacts, I couldn’t do anything but simply read questions & answers (the ones that haven’t been reported, anyway).

I wrote to Customer Care…

I've answered many, many questions for a couple of years now and have been respectful while doing do, and I've tried to follow Community Guidelines. Many people have chosen my answers as Best Answers and have given me thumbs up.

Someone, for some reason, is targeting me and has decided to report my answers (and questions) and since I have answered so many questions, all they had to do was start reporting all of my answers to trigger this suspension.

Having a difference of opinion is NOT a violation. Please restore my [CENSORED] Answers activity and stop the person who is stalking me.

Thank you,
-Keith

This is the “response” they sent me…

Thank you for contacting [CENSORED] Customer Care.

Your Incident ID is: [CENSORED]

• If you are reporting abuse, we appreciate your efforts to make our community better. We will investigate and take action where appropriate, and may contact you if additional information is required to complete our investigation.

• If you are submitting a request for assistance, or asking a question, we will respond as soon as possible.

Sincerely,
The [CENSORED] Customer Care Team

Then, another answer of mine was reported, and since I was suspended I couldn’t appeal. If I recall correctly, it was about a couple of people who were masturbating in front of each other, or at least in the same room…

The answer you gave on [CENSORED] Answers was reported by the Answers community:

"It isn't incest if there is no sexual contact between the two of you. But regardless, all that matters is what the two of you want. Masturbation is natural and normal and there's nothing wrong with it, whether he's doing it, or you are doing it, or you are doing it at the same time. It isn't unusual for siblings as close in age as you are to experiment and explore in front of each other or with each other, regardless of what any prudes say."

Then I got a decline of my appeal for one of the answer given to the person asking from India…

We're sorry, but upon review we found that the following answer was indeed in violation of the [CENSORED] Answers Community Guidelines:

"Yes. Although the same could be said about assault/rape/molestation, I will only be addressing CONSENSUAL incest. CONSENSUAL incest happens everywhere, and always has. From rich to poor, rural to urban, royal to peasant, it goes on everywhere, including everything from youthful experimentation to lifelong spousal relationships to everything in between."

Violation Reason: Non-Commercial Personal Site Promotion

Ah! Finally something that appears to make sense: I linked to a page on my blog. Why? It was relevant to the answer. I’d gladly link to better pages. So, if someone asks, say, a question about French History and an expert in the topic answers the question and links to his own academic paper, that would be a violation? Give me a break.

Next came word about my second question…

We're sorry, but upon review we found that the following question was indeed in violation of the [CENSORED] Answers Community Guidelines:

"Shouldn't Answer Writers Be Told Who Reported Their Answer?"

Violation Reason: Chatting / Not a Question or Answer / Incomprehensible

HUH?!?

That was all on Thursday the 17th.  On Friday I got this “response”…

Recently you requested personal assistance from our on-line support center. Below is a summary of your request and our response.

Subject
[CENSORED] Answers Suspension Notice

Discussion Thread
Response Via Email (Angus McKenzie)    01/18/2013 08:00 AM
Hello Keith,

Thank you for contacting [CENSORED].

You have posted content in violation of our Community Guidelines or [CENSORED] Terms of Service. As a result, your account has been suspended from [CENSORED] Answers, and you will no longer be able to access this service.

Uhm, gee, thanks for not explaining anything. I wrote back…

I realize that someone reported my questions and answers are being violations. I get that. However, what happened was that over the years, I've answered hundreds and hundreds, if not thousands of questions, and someone targeted me by simply going through and reporting my answers and my two questions in rapid-fire succession, this preventing me from dealing with each reporting, and apparently triggering automatically a suspension. Please tell me exactly how a question such as "Is there any good reason to still deny the polygamous freedom to marry?" or "Shouldn't Answer Writers Be Told Who Reported Their Answer?" are is a violation? (And yes, they were asked in the right place.)

I await an actual response.

Thank you,
Keith Pullman

This was their "response"…

Recently you requested personal assistance from our on-line support center. Below is a summary of your request and our response.

Subject
[CENSORED] Answers Suspension Notice

Discussion Thread
Response Via Email (Airis Lennon)    01/18/2013 04:41 PM
Hello Keith,

Thank you for contacting [CENSORED].
We have reviewed your appeal request. Upon review, we found that your content was indeed in violation of the [CENSORED] Answers Community Guidelines, [CENSORED] Community Guidelines, or the [CENSORED] Terms of Service. As a result, your content will remain removed from [CENSORED] Answers.

So on Saturday I responded…

HOW exactly is "Shouldn't Answer Writers Be Told Who Reported Their Answer?"a violation, when asked in the "[CENSORED] Answers" category? So far, I have not received any specific information other than what looks like form letters. I can only assume my suspension was automatically triggered for no other reason than ONE person not liking my opinions, and simply reporting my answers/questions in rapid-fire succession until I was suspended.

-Keith

Finally, I got yet another answer reported. Apparently it was about whether polygamy was going to be legalized or not.

The answer you gave on [CENSORED] Answers was reported by the Answers community:

"I sure hope so, because I support FULL marriage equality. The problems being blamed on polygamy are actually problems found in cultures with gender inequality, where it is patriarchal-polygyny (one husband, multiple wives) only. With gender equality, there's nothing wrong with allowing an ADULT, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race, or religion, to marry ANY consenting ADULTS. It will actually reduce abuse as victims will be less afraid of law enforcement. Right now, a woman can live with and have sex with two men, but can't legally marry both of them. What kind of sense is that???"

Terrible, right?

And then I got some more “Best Answers,” as I had been getting all long.

Go figure.

So, there you have it. If you know of a more reasonable question & answer forum, point me to it.

So, some angry bigot who hates the idea of full marriage equality and relationship rights for all adults has managed to get me suspended based on a flaw in how that forum operates. Unfortunately for that bigot, that horse is out of the barn. We WILL get equality. An adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race, or religion, will be free to share love, sex, residence, and marriage with ANY consenting adults. And there's nothing that they can do to stop us! We're on the right side of history.

Read more »

Posted in: lack of equality harms,media,persecution,prejudice

Still No Good Reason to Keep Polygamy Ban

Over at omgchronicles.vickilarson.com, a good question was asked: "Why is polygamy illegal in America?"

Although 92 percent of Americans say adultery is morally unacceptable, there are no legal sanctions against those who indulge anyway. But if two (or more) women are happily simultaneously married to a man or a man is happily simultaneously married to two (or more) women, not only will they likely be ostracized, but they also can face criminal charges in many places in the United States and Canada.

It's convoluted, to be sure.

But I was curious why polygamy — which is legally practiced and accepted in some 850 societies across the globe, particularly in the Middle East, Africa, Asia and the Pacific Islands — is illegal here.

The short answer is persecution of religious minorities, intrusion of church into state, and sex-negative laws. There were laws that criminalized birth control, sex with anyone other than your spouse, oral and anal sex, gay sex, sex with the lights on, sex toys, "dirty" talk during sex, erotica, so on and so forth. Most of those laws have been overturned by the courts, repealed, or rendered unenforceable, but the ban on the polygamous freedom to marry remains, for now, in more places than the ban on the same-gender freedom to marry.

Well, that’s because the Supreme Court doesn’t much like it, determining more than 100 years ago that polygamy was “an offence against society” (Reynolds v. U.S.) and compared it to “murders sanctified by religious belief, such as human sacrifice or the burning of women on their husbands’ funeral pyres,” or so writes lawyer and social critic Wendy Kaminer.

Yet it seems somewhat hypocritical of us that although we seem to be OK with serial monogamy, we aren’t OK with people who seek alternative lifestyles to get their needs met while also being committed, loving and honest with their partners.

Our laws and attitudes aren't often consistent, but we can work towards full marriage equality. Readers are asked for their opinions, so if you click through, consider sharing yours.

A comment was left by someone identifying as Jancis M. Andrews, who apparently thinks patriarchal religion-based polygyny under a system of gender inequality is the only form of polygamy that exists...

It is clear that in the 21st century, polygamy is a matter of the equality of women. Canadians do not want concubines and harems in their country. The year is 2013 AD, not 2013 BC, and polygamy belongs to the dark ages when women were considered nothing but chattels.

Yes, there are patriarchal societies that have gender inequality and allow religion-based polygyny only, and people cite problems in those societies, but the problems are not caused by polygamy. They are caused
by sexism and gender inequality under the law.

An adult, REGARDLESS OF GENDER, sexual orientation, race, or religion, should be free to share the fundamental right to marry with ANY consenting ADULTS. It is ridiculous that in most of the US, it is perfectly legal for a woman to love with, have sex with, and have children with two men at the same time, but isn't free to legally marry both at the same time even though they all agree. A woman, like a man, should be free to marry a woman, two women, two men, or men and women.

All the paperwork issues can be resolved. And if paperwork issues could be an excuse to deny fundamental rights, we wouldn't have the Americans With Disabilities Act.

Polygamy and polyamory should not be criminalized nor kept in the shadows. Victims of abuse and coercion would be MORE likely to work with law enforcement if the polygamous freedom to marry was legalized. We need FULL marriage equality! Equality just for some is not equality.

Read more »

Posted in: allies,boundaries,law,persecution,polygamy,USA

Still No Good Reason to Keep Polygamy Ban

Over at omgchronicles.vickilarson.com, a good question was asked: "Why is polygamy illegal in America?"

Although 92 percent of Americans say adultery is morally unacceptable, there are no legal sanctions against those who indulge anyway. But if two (or more) women are happily simultaneously married to a man or a man is happily simultaneously married to two (or more) women, not only will they likely be ostracized, but they also can face criminal charges in many places in the United States and Canada.

It's convoluted, to be sure.

But I was curious why polygamy — which is legally practiced and accepted in some 850 societies across the globe, particularly in the Middle East, Africa, Asia and the Pacific Islands — is illegal here.

The short answer is persecution of religious minorities, intrusion of church into state, and sex-negative laws. There were laws that criminalized birth control, sex with anyone other than your spouse, oral and anal sex, gay sex, sex with the lights on, sex toys, "dirty" talk during sex, erotica, so on and so forth. Most of those laws have been overturned by the courts, repealed, or rendered unenforceable, but the ban on the polygamous freedom to marry remains, for now, in more places than the ban on the same-gender freedom to marry.

Well, that’s because the Supreme Court doesn’t much like it, determining more than 100 years ago that polygamy was “an offence against society” (Reynolds v. U.S.) and compared it to “murders sanctified by religious belief, such as human sacrifice or the burning of women on their husbands’ funeral pyres,” or so writes lawyer and social critic Wendy Kaminer.

Yet it seems somewhat hypocritical of us that although we seem to be OK with serial monogamy, we aren’t OK with people who seek alternative lifestyles to get their needs met while also being committed, loving and honest with their partners.

Our laws and attitudes aren't often consistent, but we can work towards full marriage equality. Readers are asked for their opinions, so if you click through, consider sharing yours.

A comment was left by someone identifying as Jancis M. Andrews, who apparently thinks patriarchal religion-based polygyny under a system of gender inequality is the only form of polygamy that exists...

It is clear that in the 21st century, polygamy is a matter of the equality of women. Canadians do not want concubines and harems in their country. The year is 2013 AD, not 2013 BC, and polygamy belongs to the dark ages when women were considered nothing but chattels.

Yes, there are patriarchal societies that have gender inequality and allow religion-based polygyny only, and people cite problems in those societies, but the problems are not caused by polygamy. They are caused
by sexism and gender inequality under the law.

An adult, REGARDLESS OF GENDER, sexual orientation, race, or religion, should be free to share the fundamental right to marry with ANY consenting ADULTS. It is ridiculous that in most of the US, it is perfectly legal for a woman to love with, have sex with, and have children with two men at the same time, but isn't free to legally marry both at the same time even though they all agree. A woman, like a man, should be free to marry a woman, two women, two men, or men and women.

All the paperwork issues can be resolved. And if paperwork issues could be an excuse to deny fundamental rights, we wouldn't have the Americans With Disabilities Act.

Polygamy and polyamory should not be criminalized nor kept in the shadows. Victims of abuse and coercion would be MORE likely to work with law enforcement if the polygamous freedom to marry was legalized. We need FULL marriage equality! Equality just for some is not equality.

Read more »

Posted in: allies,boundaries,law,persecution,polygamy,USA

Latest Consanguinamory Poll at SodaHead

I enjoyed contributing to a certain question-and-answer forum. Unfortunately, I'm not able to right now (perhaps I will go into detail about that in another entry), but fortunately, there are other places for questions and answers. A recent poll at sodahead.com asked, "Incest is it wrong?" I found the wording of the question and the pre-listed answer choices to be a bit awkward, but I was happy to see someone raising the issue again, even if it did attract some ridiculous (and what some would find offensive) responses.

John said it is wrong, writing...

Kind of sick IMO. There is no shortage of willing partners outside the home why would you stoop so low?

And we call those Discredited Arguments #1 and 21.

Drebi is an ally...

Regardless of my personal stance on the matter, I believe that competent, consenting *Human* adults should be able to engage in whatever activities they want, so long as it does not (directly and unnessecarily) contribute to the detriment of humanity.

VampFreak13 is not...

Incest is normally applied to close family relatives...first and second mostly...this closeness can cause deformities in offspring...not to mention the fact that is is not socially acceptable...as well as morally wrong...yes is history it has happened but that still does not make it right... :)

Discredited Arguments #2, 4, and 18.

Drebi adds...

Actually, incest of even close genetic relatives (siblings, parent/child) does not tend to cause any more mutations than when a female smoker aged 35 decides to breed.

Interracial relationships were not always (and in some places are still not) considered socially acceptable and were/are considered immoral. That doesn't necessarily mean it was/is wrong.

Slavery and the owning of women was at one point (and in some places still is) considered socially acceptable and moral. That doesn't necessarily mean it was/is right.

The only time society should intervene in others' lives is when it involves children, non-human animals and non-consesual/competent adults.

Excellent!

Last I checked the poll, there were some allies and the rest of anti-equality people, as usual, just invoked their persona disgust, which doesn't make consanguinamory wrong. So again, we see that there is no good reason to discriminate against people who have consanguineous sex or relationships.

Read more »

Posted in: allies,consanguineous,incest,myths,prejudice

Latest Consanguinamory Poll at SodaHead

I enjoyed contributing to a certain question-and-answer forum. Unfortunately, I'm not able to right now (perhaps I will go into detail about that in another entry), but fortunately, there are other places for questions and answers. A recent poll at sodahead.com asked, "Incest is it wrong?" I found the wording of the question and the pre-listed answer choices to be a bit awkward, but I was happy to see someone raising the issue again, even if it did attract some ridiculous (and what some would find offensive) responses.

John said it is wrong, writing...

Kind of sick IMO. There is no shortage of willing partners outside the home why would you stoop so low?

And we call those Discredited Arguments #1 and 21.

Drebi is an ally...

Regardless of my personal stance on the matter, I believe that competent, consenting *Human* adults should be able to engage in whatever activities they want, so long as it does not (directly and unnessecarily) contribute to the detriment of humanity.

VampFreak13 is not...

Incest is normally applied to close family relatives...first and second mostly...this closeness can cause deformities in offspring...not to mention the fact that is is not socially acceptable...as well as morally wrong...yes is history it has happened but that still does not make it right... :)

Discredited Arguments #2, 4, and 18.

Drebi adds...

Actually, incest of even close genetic relatives (siblings, parent/child) does not tend to cause any more mutations than when a female smoker aged 35 decides to breed.

Interracial relationships were not always (and in some places are still not) considered socially acceptable and were/are considered immoral. That doesn't necessarily mean it was/is wrong.

Slavery and the owning of women was at one point (and in some places still is) considered socially acceptable and moral. That doesn't necessarily mean it was/is right.

The only time society should intervene in others' lives is when it involves children, non-human animals and non-consesual/competent adults.

Excellent!

Last I checked the poll, there were some allies and the rest of anti-equality people, as usual, just invoked their persona disgust, which doesn't make consanguinamory wrong. So again, we see that there is no good reason to discriminate against people who have consanguineous sex or relationships.

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Posted in: allies,consanguineous,incest,myths,prejudice

Vacancy Tarnishes Michigan Supreme Court

Diane Hathaway with President Obama

Last Friday, the US Attorney filed federal criminal charges [bank fraud] against the now-former Michigan Supreme Court Justice Diane Hathaway; her last official day was Monday, although she has been absent from the bench for weeks.  This is yet another case that gives the public pause, and erodes the confidence we place in our publicly elected officials; especially jurists; especially those elected to the Michigan Supreme Court.


By now, this story is well-known.  Ms. Hathaway and her husband are alleged to have concealed an intra-family transfer of a parcel of Florida real estate in order to get a short-sale approved which resulted in a mortgage loan forgiveness of more than $600,000.

The feds assert that the intra-family transfer was not disclosed to the mortgage lender to intentionally trick the lender into believing the Hathaways were suffering an economic hardship.  Once the short sale was approved, the Florida property was transferred back to the Hathaways.

Seems like a slam dunk prosecution.  Because the federal charging instrument filed in the case was an "information", a guilty plea is expected to be tendered by Hathaway next Tuesday in U.S. District Court.

We here at the Law Blogger have seen many of our divorce clients, while suffering genuine intense economic hardship, have their short sale offers or their loan modification applications rejected.  But even the notion of a sitting Supreme Court Justice applying for a short sale strikes us as untenable.  This whole story falls squarely within the category of: "What were they thinking?"

Thinking back to the November elections of 2008, when Hathaway was elevated from the Wayne County Circuit Court to the High Court, this blog recalls all those attack ads about former Justice Cliff Taylor depicted [via cleaver video editing we might ad] falling asleep during oral arguments.  In the long-run, however, any faith Michiganders placed in Hathaway to replace the pro-insurance Taylor was squandered.

At Hathaway's inevitable sentencing, she will be ordered to pay back the mortgage deficiency.  But we have to wonder: will she also be sentenced to federal prison?  Perhaps she will be able to avoid a prison sentence by tendering a guilty plea.  Wow, a former Michigan Supreme Court Justice pleading guilty in a federal courthouse.

One of the consequences of Hathaway's resignation from the High Court is the imminent appointment of a replacement.  One name that has been floated is Oakland County Circuit Judge Colleen O'Brien.  And if she gets the appointment, Governor Snyder will also have the opportunity to appoint O'Brien's replacement to the Oakland Circuit.

We can hardly wait.  Stay tuned.

www.clarkstonlegal.com
info@clarkstonlegal.com

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Posted in: bank fraud,Justice Clifford Taylor,Justice Diane Hathaway,Michigan Supreme Court,Oakland Circuit Judge Colleen O'Brien,Oakland County Circuit Court,United States Attorney

Michigan Civil Service Extends Healthcare Benefits

It is safe to say that healthcare and the availability of benefits are important to all working people in Michigan.  Nothing wreaks havoc on our day-to-day life more than an unexpected illness, especially when we lack the healthcare benefits necessary to secure the proper treatment.  

A recent decision by the Michigan Court of Appeals held that the Michigan Civil Service Commission (MCSC) could expand the eligibility of health care benefits for state employees to their co-residents, if those persons are at least 18 years old, NOT relatives, and have resided within the same household as the state employee for at least 12-months (but not as a renter or tenant).  

This potential coverage expansion applies to employees who do not have an eligible spouse. Thus, the coverage would apply to boyfriends, girlfriends, and/or same sex partners, as long as they meet the criteria for coverage.

The issue arose when the MCSC allowed for the additional healthcare coverage, and the Attorney General sued on the basis of a violation of Equal Protection; the expanded coverage discriminated against married state employees by excluding married employees from being able to cover non-spouses or other blood relatives. The Attorney General suggested that the policy was a way to circumvent Michigan’s “Marriage Amendment,” which prohibits the recognition of any “agreement” other than “the union of one man and one woman in marriage.” 

The Court of Appeals found the Attorney General’s argument unpersuasive and affirmed the trial court's dismissal of the case.  The appeals court held that the new policy, “does not in any way prohibit incidentally benefiting such agreements, particularly where it is clear that an employee here could share benefits with a wide variety of other people.”   The Court further explained that the policy does not, “depend on the employee being in a close relationship of any particular kind…beyond a common residence.”

Further, the Court of Appeals determined that the matter deserved a heightened standard of review, and as such, the policy is “rationally related to advance a legitimate state purpose.”  Specifically, the Court held that as the MCSC drafted the eligibility criteria after negotiating with the unions, “it is not the place of the courts to second-guess the wisdom, need, or appropriateness of the state action.” Lastly, the appellate court recognized the Civil Service Commission as having “plenary and exclusive authority” in setting eligibility guidelines for state workers, “because they are provided in exchange for services rendered by state employees.”

In sum, if you are an unmarried Civil Service employee, you may be able to provide healthcare benefits for anyone who has been living with you, as long as they have done so for at least 12 continuous months, they are not a tenant or renter, they are not a blood relative, and they are at least 18 years old.

Apparently, our court of intermediate appellate review does not wish to tread upon the authority of the state bureaucracy when it comes to providing health care benefits for its own.  We here at the Law Blogger think perhaps that is as it should be under our separation of powers.

www.clarkstonlegal.com
info@clarkstonlegal.com

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Posted in: Attorney General,civil service,health care,Michigan Civil Service Commission,Michigan Court of Appeals

Speaking of Advice Columns

Dear Abby recently published a letter from Girl Left Behind in California...

"Myles" and I have known each other for five years, but have grown really close over the past three. We tell each other everything, and I have fallen in love with him.

A few months ago, Myles sent me a text saying he needed to tell me a "secret." He went on to say the guy he had told me was his brother, "Jeff," is really his lover. Needless to say, that bombshell floored me.

We have discussed it in person, and I have never told him how I feel. I visit them a couple of times a month and always go home feeling hurt. I want Myles for myself, even though I know I can't have him. I don't want to lose him as my friend, but it hurts seeing him and Jeff together. How do I resolve this?

Abby's response doesn't address the fact that Jeff and Myles could be brothers. Myles could have very well said that Jeff is his brother and not have been lying. They could be brothers and lovers. Either way, if they are monogamous, or if Myles is gay rather than flexible or bisexual, the letter-writter won't stand a chance in getting anywhere with Myles.

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Posted in: brother-brother,consanguineous,LGBT,same-sex,siblings

They Finally Found Love But Are Denied Their Rights

The couple featured in the interview below are a good-looking couple living in the US. Although if you met them you might notice there is an age difference between them, you'd never think, if you passed them on the street, that they would not only be denied the right to marry, but that their relationship would still be illegal in most states. They were generous enough with her time and privacy to be interviewed.

*****

FULL MARRIAGE EQUALITY: Describe your background.

Anonymous Woman:  I am a forty-four year old adult adoptee and mother of two in a loving relationship with my seventy year old genetic father. My childhood was anything but happy. I had a cruel, abusive adoptive father. I got married very young and the marriage only lasted a couple of years. I married my second husband a year after the divorce. I’ve been separated from him for ten years.

I now live with my two kids, my genetic father/partner, and my ex.

Anonymous Man: I worked as a restaurant manager. I've been divorced for 35 years.


FME: Describe how you met or were reunited.

Woman: I found my father with one internet search. For years I only had three clues about my father: his first name, his best friend's from childhood's name, and where he was living around the time I was born. I was able to track down his best friend who told me my father's last name. It was an unusual last name which made him very easy to find.

My father never knew about me. He dated my mother briefly in but they parted ways before I was born. He never even knew she was pregnant with me.

FME: What kind of life had you had until that time?

Woman: My adult life up until that time was comfortably middle-class. I had a beautiful home, two adorable children, and a great job working as a hairstylist in a busy salon.

When my father and I reunited I had been unhappily married for 14 years. My husband was a devout Christian who refused to be intimate with me except to have children. We were more like brother and sister than husband and wife. At one point my husband told me that he wanted me to find someone new, but at the time I too was a devout Christian so "adultery" was out of the question. So was divorce. I felt trapped and lonely.

Man: I lived alone for 35 years. I too was lonely. I missed having somebody to love and somebody to love me.


FME: What was that “first” meeting like?

Woman: I met my father in person four months after I first made contact with him. We met at his favorite restaurant with my husband and kids in tow. The first thing I noticed about him was was how ruggedly handsome he was. He even smelled wonderful. He was, and still is, the man of my dreams.

Man: I thought she was beautiful.


FME: What kind of feelings were you experiencing?

Woman: I was giddy with excitement. It was love at first sight. Everything about him turned me on.

Man: I was happier than I'd ever been before.


FME: How did the relationship progress, and what did your husband know, if anything, and what was his reaction?

Man: It just happened.

Woman: We had our "official" first date three days after I arrived in the town where he lived with my husband and kids in tow. My father stopped by my hotel late on the third evening and asked my husband if he could take me somewhere. I couldn't believe my father was asking my husband for permission to take me out! Of course we never made it there. Instead we ended up going to his place. It was there that we kissed for the first time.

A month later he packed up his stuff and moved to be closer to me and my family. I spent every weekend at his place, I even took a job near his home so I would have an excuse to spend more time with him. From the very beginning my husband knew about my affair with my father. His reaction was typical of someone who is unfamiliar with Genetic Sexual Attraction: He thought it was "sick" and "weird".


FME: How did sexual affection become a part of your relationship?

Woman: We both felt a strong sexual attraction to one another from the very beginning of our relationship. We’d talked on the phone every day for four months before we met in person, and we discussed our feelings for one another and what might happen if we were ever alone together.


FME: Was it a gradual development or was there a sudden event?

Woman: It was a sudden event. We were both blindsided by the intense sexual attraction we felt for one another. At first we thought there was something wrong with us. It would have been much easier if we has known about Genetic Sexual Attraction before we reunited.

Man: I felt guilty at first because I thought we were doing something wrong. She seemed fine with it. I felt like a dirty old man.


FME: Did these feelings confuse you?

Man: Yes, very much.

Woman: Yes, we were both confused. We didn't know what to make of it. He took it much harder than I did.


FME: Was this something you had ever thought possible before?

Woman: I had fantasized about meeting my birth father for as long as I could remember, but I never imagined that I would fall head over heels in love with him. 

Man: I never imagined anything like this. 


FME: Many people brought together through GSA say it is the best relationship and best sex they’ve ever experienced. Have you found that to be true for you?

Woman: Definitely true.

Man: Yes it is.


FME: Describe your relationship now. How long have you been together?

Man: It’s terrific. We live like a married couple. 

Woman: We’ve been together ten years. We've had our ups and downs like any other couple, but our love for one another is very strong.


FME:  Do you see each other more as a father/daughter, as lovers, or are those two roles inseparable at this point?

Man: The roles are inseparable. She is the love of my life.

Woman: I see him as a lover. I have never seen him as a father. He is the love of my life.



FME: Does anyone in your life know the full, true nature of your relationship and how did they find out?

Woman: The only people who know the true nature of our relationship are my kids, my ex and a few people I have connected with online. Everyone accepts our relationship, especially my daughter.


FME: Are you able to act like a couple in public.?

Woman: We usually act like a couple when we are in public, but whenever we are around my father's friends we are strictly father and daughter, though I'm sure some of them have figured it out by now.


FME: What do you want to say to people who disapprove of your relationship, or disapprove of anyone having this kind of relationship?

Woman: It doesn't bother me if they disapprove. How I live my life is none of their business.

Man: I don't care what they think.  


FME: What's your reply to those who would say that if a genetic father and daughter have this kind of relationship, it is only because the daughter is being victimized by the father (and that the daughter can’t really consent)?

Man: I would tell them it's a bunch of bulls---.

Woman: I'd tell them that it's bulls---. They are comparing Genetic Sexual Attraction between two consenting adults to child molestation. I was not a child when I became involved with my father. I was thirty-four years old., plenty old enough to consent to a sexual relationship with whomever I choose.


FME: There are some who have experienced GSA who discourage others from having any sexual involvement. Do you have anything to say about that?

Man: I would say they don't know what they are talking about.

Woman: Those who discourage others from having any sexual involvement probably had a painful experience with GSA. I would encourage anyone experiencing GSA to make their own decisions and not allow those who a had a negative experience to discourage them from becoming intimately involved.


FME: Aside from the law, can you think of anything that would make a GSA-based sexual relationship inherently wrong?

Man: No.

Woman: No I cannot. People who are related by blood who later meet as adults are strangers in every sense of the word. If both people involved are consenting adults, they should have the same rights to enjoy a sexual relationship as everyone else.


FME: If you could get legally married, and that included protections against discrimination, harassment, etc., would you?

Man: Yes.

Woman: Yes, absolutely.


FME: What advice do you have for someone who may be experiencing GSA?

Man: I would tell them that there's nothing wrong with it.

Woman: Don't ever let anyone tell you that what you are feeling is wrong, or that you are not normal. GSA is a normal response to an abnormal situation. Don't be afraid of it. Embrace it.


FME: What advice do you have for family members and friends who think or know that someone is experiencing GSA?

Man: Don't judge them.



*****


Dear readers, don’t you agree with me that it is extremely unfair to deny consenting adults like these the right to marry? Isn’t it ridiculous that in many places, they still can’t be open about their relationship? They've been together for ten years, and everyone is happier and better off as a result.

Thanks again to both of them for sharing.

You can read other interviews like this here.

If you are in, or have been in, a “forbidden” consensual relationship, and want to be interviewed, please contact me at fullmarriageequality at yahoo dot com.

UPDATE October 2013: Sadly, the man in this interview has passed away at the age of 70 due to a terminal illness. As reported by the woman...

He died at home... I was with him until the very end. I am still in complete shock. He was, and still is, the love of my life.

Shame on all of those who have opposed their freedom to love each other. He couldn't have had a better companion for these last years of life. Although they'll never have their legal wedding, there are so many others like them that are waiting, and will, when the time comes.

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Posted in: consanguineous,family reaction,father-daughter,GSA,love,reunion