The Two Main Paths to Consanguinamory

There are two main paths to consanguinamory, or the objective reality that at least two closely biologically related people have sex, and perhaps an ongoing romance or marriage-style relationship. While the prejudiced may dismiss all consanguinamory as the same (in their small minds) inexcusable behavior, the differences in these paths do have an impact on the participants and those around them. This is why people who are on one path may not understand those on the other, or want to be associated with them.

One main path to consanguinamory is Genetic Sexual Attraction (GSA). GSA is an extremely intense attraction that may occur when close biological relatives meet any time after puberty either for the very first time, or the first time since the youngest went through puberty. These situations are likely to increase due to increased human mobility and the high rates of co-parents who do not stay together. Whether a marriage that involved at least one child ends in divorce, or a one night stand results in pregnancy, or anything between, a man and woman who have a child together may go their separate ways, often going on to have more children with others. The situations are are also likely to increase due to increase in the use of donated eggs, sperm, and embryos to have a child. In addition to the various forms of adoptions, some governments, such as some states in the US, allow someone to bring a newborn to a hospital, police station, fire station, etc, and surrender custody of the child with no penalty.

As you can see, there are many situations in which close relatives, such as full or half siblings, or a parent and child, can be reunited post-puberty.



Only some reunification/first contact involves a person experiencing GSA, but some estimates are as high as 50%. Even if there is mutual attraction (both or all, if more than two experiencing GSA), it doesn't always lead to sex. However, GSA is so strong that if it is mutual, it often does lead to sex sooner or later. The sex may not last for any number of reasons. In addition to all of the other reasons people may stop having sex with each other, there are external pressures on such relationships (like criminal law and social disapproval) or a conflicted conscience on the part of one or all involved due to years of sex-police thinking being drilled into their heads.

GSA is almost always a painful path for one reason or another.

Sometimes GSA leads to lasting, happy consanguinamory, but even if any internal pain is a thing of the past, there might be pain from outside interference. That's something I am trying to help change.

With the GSA path, the people usually have established identities and lives in which they are not known as related. For example, half siblings find out about each other in their twenties; the friends and coworkers of one, or both, don't know they are related if they haven't told them. Also, they usually don't have that history of the social connection to their biological roles. They haven't been functioning as brother and sister. A son given up for adoption at birth meets his birth mother twenty years later. He has a mother: the woman who raised him, if she is still alive. Still, someone experiencing GSA may seek to have that familial relationship that would have been expected should there have never been a separation. This is not always possible; it can be very difficult. The history is not there, and nobody can go back to being nine years old; nobody can reverse time.

In GSA relationships, as with any other relationship, it usually takes time for the people get to know each other. Almost always, they find remarkable commonalities.

Those who know of their biological relation may try to break them up or separate them, sometimes by force of law. This can be especially insulting if the person or people trying to douse their love was somewhat responsible for the original situation in the first place. Their actions denied these GSA-experiencers all of the typical parent-child or sibling relationship experiences; after those experiencing GSA have reunited (or met for the first time) and found happiness with each other, this happiness is threatened or taken away.

If the lovers don't want someone else knowing that they are, in fact, lovers, they may be able to use the cover story of making up for lost time with a long-lost relative. (In actuality, an enjoyable consanguinamorous relationship is, in their case, the compensation for that lost time.)

If the sexual aspect of the relationship ends, and does so acrimoniously, the risk includes again losing a long-lost relative. However, if the relationship lasts, it can be a very exciting and fulfilling one.


The other main path to consanguinamory involves close relatives who didn't grow under the separation conditions involved in GSA. This includes cousins (who can legally marry in some places), but it also includes...
-full or half siblings, either raised in the same home or interacting throughout childhood
-parents and their adult children, either with the child raised in the parent's home or with that parent throughout childhood through shared custody or visitation
-aunts/uncles with their nieces/nephews (close in age, or after all are adults)
-grandparents and adult grandchildren.

Cousins and siblings are probably the most common examples of consanguinamory.

On this path, consanguineous sex may begin (and sometimes end) as youthful experimentation between minors who are siblings, cousins, or aunts/uncles with nieces/nephews who are close in age. Sometimes it is more than experimentation, and a full-fledged love affair develops, and may continue into a marriage in everything but (usually) law. Or, it may begin later, at any in their adult life, as young singles or after a divorce or breakup or as seniors.

The consanguinamorous dimension of a relationship, when one person is significantly older than another, such as parent-adult child, may be added at any time after the youngest person reaches the age of majority. This can and does happen without any "grooming." (Grooming and abuse cases are another matter that I'm not addressing here, as I am writing about consensual, loving, healthy relationships.)


Differences from the GSA path include that the lovers have that existing social relationship with the familial context. Consanguinamory on this path builds on that, adding another dimension. Who is more loving, caring, or trustworthy? They already know each other extremely well. Still, there is even greater potential for inner conflict than there is with GSA as one or all of the lovers deals with the notion of "this is wrong," due to years of sex-police thinking being drilled into their heads for no good reason.

Lovers on this path may have had more opportunity to share physical intimacy, but a more difficult time hiding the true reason their demeanor lights up when their (secret) lover walks into the room. However, there is a long tradition of adult siblings or parents and their adult children sharing residence, so if they develop a spousal-type relationship, it can easily be concealed from the finger-waggers with that cover.

If the sexual aspect of the relationship ends, and does so acrimoniously, the risk includes general family disruption. However, if the relationship lasts, it can be extremely intense in a positive way, full of a layered and passionate love.

As I have already said recently, most romantic or sexual relationships don't last; if they did, most of us would still be in our first ones. But they should be allowed to develop and continue, or end, on their own merits, without interference from overbearing law enforcement, bullies, or self-appointed sex police. There are happy, health, lasting consanguinamorous relationships, and I say good for everyone in them. May they continue to share their fun, joy, and love.

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Posted in: boundaries,consanguineous,GSA,help,incest,lack of equality harms,love,reunion

I'm Not Kidding

Visit (and follow) my Tumblr blog for stuff like this, a defense I wrote of consanguineous lovers in response to someone else's Tumblr post.

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Posted in: consanguineous,incest,myths

Rinella on Rights

The brilliant, talented, and lovely author Diane Rinella has just blogged about why we deny people their rights.

We don’t deny people their rights because we want to, we do it because they are in situations that either we don’t understand or can’t comprehend. We all know of the struggles that homosexuals have faced to gain the right to marry and be treated as equals. Every day we see it on the news and we experience it with our friends. Therefore, it is very easy to analyze the subject. However, what if the situation is something that you don’t think about? It’s a type of relationship that is happening around you, yet you’re completely unaware of it because those involved are living in shadows. The truth is, not only do you know people who are or have been involved in relationships you can’t fathom, you also know people who are being denied of their rights.

Go read the whole thing. Please!

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Posted in: allies,children,consanguineous,LGBT,marriage equality,polyamory,solidarity,stigma

Zimbabwe Still Prosecuting Consenting Adults

From allafrica.com comes this report of the criminal prosecution of first cousins for the "crime" of loving each other.

Two cousins who were involved in an incestuous relationship which resulted in the birth of a girl and current pregnancy will perform 630 hours of community service. The two's fathers are brothers and traditionally are expected to treat each other as brother and sister. Ashley Feremenga (19) and her cousin Robson Feremenga (21) were living as husband and wife in Dzivaresekwa before neighbours alerted Ashley's father Jonasi.

I wonder what the love lives of those neighbors are like... if they have a love life in the first place. Must not be very fulfilling if they have time to rat people out for loving each other.

I'm sure their child is healthy. Otherwise, you can be sure this report would have noted any problems.

The duo was convicted after their own plea of guilt when they appeared before Harare magistrate Mr Aidonia Masawi who sentenced them to a 36 month-imprisonment term.

What a waste of the court.

Ashley's father Jonasi only came to know about their relationship after being advised by his neighbours.

He filed a police report leading to their arrest.

Rat. The lovers should keep his grandchildren away from him.

Fortunately, very few US states have ridiculous laws criminalizing consensual sex between first cousins. About half of US states will legally marry first cousins, and such marriages are common in many countries today, and have been very common throughout history. Prosecuting consenting adults for loving each other is outrageous.

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Posted in: Africa,breaking up homes,children,consanguineous,courts,cousins,family reaction,lack of equality harms,love,prejudice,prosecution,Zimbabwe

Welcome Michael Brown Readers

Thanks to Michael Brown for the link. Notice that in his latest column he did not explain why he opposes marriage equality. I invite you to check around here and see that marriage equality is nothing to fear. The column on the right and the tabs above at the top of the page will have many links of interest.

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Why Not Solidarity?

Here's an older entry on the blog that is still relevant, so I'm bumping it up.

Here’s a question that touches on prejudices and solidarity as they relate to marriage equality.

How come the right to marrige fight only includes gay marriage and does not include the right for bisexuals to marry both sexes, or adult incest marriage and even more so polygamy? It obviously is not about the right to marry, so why do we lie.

I am here, fighting for full marriage equality. But it is true that there are people who only want the freedom to marry extended in a way that benefits just them or their friends. You’re right; they aren’t really fighting for the right to marry or for marriage equality, just their own freedom to marry. But there are others who fight for full marriage equality.

The question got some responses.

Mike Jones says…

Equality marriage is not about marriage equality at all. It is about promoting the gay agenda and they do not support bisexual or trans gender issues either.

The “gay agenda” - ? – You mean, like going to work, paying taxes? But even Mike can see that others are being thrown under the bus.

A polygamy according to them, should have the right to marry all that he loves and the mother of all of his children. An adult incest couple should have the right to consummate their love inmarriage, both father adn daughter and mother and son. This is all under the equality marriage banner, but they dare only raise their gay flag.

We do need solidarity. Even if someone can not tell us what "a polygamy" is.

Smooth T says…

Simply because polygamy is not our fight and neither is incest.

I see. So Martin Luther King, Jr. should have only asked for civil rights for African-Americans, not Asian-Americans or Latinos?

Incest is disgusting and it’s A FAMILY LINE THAT SHOULD NEVER BE CROSSED

Some people say that about two men having sex. You don’t have to like it to recognize that consenting adults should have their rights.

polygamy is just a patriarchal thing that puts the woman as a slave to her husband and isn’t beneficial for anyone but the man.

That would be your concept of polygyny. Full marriage equality would also allow polyandry and group marriage, and again, what consenting adults do in private should not be subject to the prejudices of others.

Alexis says…

Bisexuals *already* have the right to marry someone of the opposite sex, just not the same sex.

They should have both.

Second, incestuous and polygamous marriages being denied is not a violation of the 14th Amendment of the Constitution. I’m not even necessarily saying that I have a problem with them being allowed, but it’s simply not a matter of Constitutional law being broken. Denying same-sexcouples the right to marry, on the other hand, *is*.

Why is that so? Merely stating that doesn’t make it true. I’m still waiting for a good reason.

Wolfie says…

Incest marriage is self-destructive and goes against how families work.

No proof is offered, just an assertion.

Nothing wrong with Polygamy, if it is regulated and everyone is treated equally.

Well at least Wolfie is open to that.

In discussion after discussion, we fail to see a good reason why the freedom to marry should be extended to some, but not all adults. Get on the right side of history and support relationship rights for ALL adults! Support these lovers and so many others. Here's how.

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Posted in: marriage equality,prejudice,solidarity

Another Marriage Denied Equality

By my count, this is the thirtieth ongoing relationship I've covered through exclusive interviews in which the lovers are denied the freedom to be open about their love and are denied their fundamental right to marry.

Chelsea is a bright young woman, legally free to marry a complete stranger. But she can't legally marry the man she is living with as husband and wife.

Read the interview below and ask yourself if there is one good reason these two consenting adults should be denied their right to marry. THIS INTERVIEW DOES GET SOMEWHAT SEXUALLY EXPLICIT.


*****


FULL MARRIAGE EQUALITY: Describe your background.

Chelsea: I am a college graduate at a major Texas University and majored in Business Administration and currently reside just outside of Dallas, with my father. I currently work for him in a manufacturing plant in an adviser capacity. I am 26 years old and originally from Oklahoma. Most of my family ties and friends from school still reside there. I have some English, Irish and a bit of Spanish in my blood. I am about 5 feet 9 inches and weigh about 145 lbs last time I weighed myself.  I am a big-boned girl, so I will never be considered petite.  I love to eat, so it is always a battle to keep my weight down. I topped off at about 165 lbs periodically in my life, so far.  I have medium brown hair but sometimes have dyed it black.

I have one older brother.

My mom divorced dad when I was much younger and lives near Oklahoma City with her husband. I have sporadic contact with them.

I like bowling, hiking and volleyball. I also love to travel, usually on business trips with my dad. I love to sing, but will never make it as the next American Idol, but do belt out a few songs on karaoke night at local clubs.

Anonymous Dad: She is a lot to love and I love her a lot!  She is smart, witty but can't sing worth a lick, but then again I am no Frank Sinatra either.




FME: Are you married or have you ever been married?

Chelsea: I have never been married to an unrelated man. But I am 'married' to my father. Of course,  we could not have a nice, big church wedding with friends and family invited to attend nor have the big reception and the cutting of the cake and throwing out the garter and all of that. I have my regrets of not being fitted for a lavish wedding dress and having matching bridesmaids to accompany me. But dad and I had a little ceremony of our own with my brother in attendance and we exchanged our own special vows and my father bought me a ring. My father refuses to tell me exactly how much it cost him. I plan on wearing that ring until the day I die.

Father: Let's just say that I spent more on this ring then I did for her mother’s. And in a better, more tolerant world, I would have loved for her to have a wedding for the ages, one that will be forever memorable for her, and us. But she is still happy with how things turned out and her happiness is all that matters to me.


FME: How would you describe your sexual orientation and your relationship orientation... are you heterosexual, bisexual, what? Are you a monogamist, polygamist, or....?

Chelsea: I am mostly straight, but did experiment with a female on a couple of occasions in high school as well as in college. Mostly kissing and hugging but I did go down on my college roommate a couple of times and she on me. Dad knows about it but I never gave him a “show.” I think he would have liked that. I think most guys would. After mom divorced my father,  I was the only female left in the house so it was myself, dad and brother. Would I have sex with a woman again? I probably wouldn't shy away from the opportunity but for now am quite happy with being married to my father and plan on being with him for life.

Father: I am an advocate of lesbianism and give them my full support!  Would 'I' have sex with another woman again?  Not as long as I have my sexy daughter as my partner.   


FME: You currently live with… ?

Chelsea: My father. It is just the two of us in a nice house at the end of a quiet cul-de-sac.  There are two houses within 50 yards of our home and the neighbors think we are just a couple that is in a May-December relationship. They have no idea that we are father and daughter and for now, we have no plans on telling them.


FME: What kind of relationship did you have while you were growing up?

Chelsea: I was always daddy's little girl and some days, my father still treats me that way. He was my first crush when I was in middle school and my feelings have never wavered. He has always been there for me to dry away my tears, fix my boo boos on my scraped knees or cut fingers.

Mom seemed to be too busy with her hobbies, her own job and her circle of friends. Mom left dad just before I turned 13.

We all pulled together as a team, to make the household work. My father was a little despondent at first, because he never really intended to see his wife go. They had grown apart due to not being together that often.  Mom was always preoccupied with her own world of friends and was always out and about in her job as a bank officer for a major financial institution. Dad became Mr. Mom.

I was on the cusp of puberty and transforming from little girl to young woman. It was scary, exciting and confusing all at the same time for both me and dad. Sometimes I would come home from a bad day at school because of a fight with a girl over a boy or because I showed interest in a boy and he didn't return that interest. Dad would do all he could to comfort me and assure me that things will be alright and to not let things get me down. There is always another day, another tomorrow. I enjoyed those times with my father from the beginning.

Father: Chelsea would side with me for most arguments that I had with my wife. I could do no wrong, even though that wasn't really true. I am no angel; nobody is perfect. But I always tried to look at the practical side of things. I remember disciplining her.


FME: How did sexual affection become a part of your relationship?

Chelsea: His hugs and kisses were always reassuring.  I loved him so much. As I aged, those kisses became a little more intense. Not just a peck on the forehead or cheek, but a kiss on the lips started to become more of the open mouth variety until one day our tongues met. I never thought it would become a prelude to having sex with my father at the time, but later dad did admit that those early kisses did excite him greatly.

Father:  She was and is always an attractive daughter. Secretly, I DID long for her but fought the urges for the good of the family unit. After all, she had had to finish growing up without her mother there.

Chelsea: Some of the kissing was done in various stages of undress. Dad, my brother and I didn't always keep our doors closed, so we would have fleeting glimpses of our bodies. One night before bedtime, my brother peeked in on us. Dad was kissing me not just on the lips, but also on my neck and moved to my upper chest. Natural, human instincts were taking over and my father deftly opened my nightgown, exposing my breasts. I moved dad's head down to them and closed my eyes. Or breathing grew short and shallow. We had reached a threshold that had no point of return. He continued to touch and tongue my breasts and tt felt amazing. My dad was the first male to make love to my breasts.  In fact, dad was the first male I did anything and everything with sexually.  My brother was enjoying the show of course and pleaded with me later on to do it with him.

Father: It was quite an event, that first time. I was a little concerned that it would backfire, and that I would lose the trust of my daughter. I patiently waited for when I thought the time was right. I must admit I fought my own urges to seduce her because she was so young and vulnerable. She is my daughter, for goodness sake! A few months later, my son started to join in. He’s two years older than her and there was no reason to leave him out.


FME: How do you describe the lovemaking now?

Chelsea: Fantastic!  Dad and I pretty much do it all sexually. The sex with my father always seemed natural. Our sexual liaisons were a perfect fit.  No pun intended.  Dad, brother and I enjoyed each other sexually without any reservations. We all benefited.  I enjoyed orally servicing them, many times at the same time. They always returned the favor.

I went on the obligatory dates so that people wouldn't 'talk', because I had two, at home “boyfriends” in my father and brother. I sucked a c--- or two just to keep things quiet among the guys I did go out with but most of the oral sex, I performed on my dad and big brother.

We enjoyed kinky threesomes for quite a few years.  It has just recently ended with my older brother.  He found himself a nice lady and has moved several miles away due to his employment situation, so it is now just me and my father enjoying each other's company and bodies. To my dad and I, nothing is too kinky or off-limits. We have f---ed in just about every position there is. Dad is a big man. 6 foot 2 inches and about 240 lbs. He has been able to handle my sometimes 160 lbs with ease. As I mentioned earlier,  I am around 145 lbs right now but I don't think I can lose too much more. What I am getting at is when dad has intercourse with me, while he is standing up and holding me up in the air. It is crazy wild sex!  We have also tried bondage and other kinky activities and have performed role play.  A lot of times I will call him 'daddy' when we are having sex. A truer word has never been spoken!

Sometimes, we just have time for a little quickie in the morning before we leave for work.  I will suck my father off so as to get him in the right frame of mind and ease any tensions he may have for the upcoming work day. Besides, I certainly don't mind having my dad for “breakfast.”  During the week our schedules don't always permit full-fledged sexual activity. At night, we just go to bed, naked under the covers and kiss each other until we fall asleep. The weekends are a whole other story.  Saturdays, Sundays and Holidays are our best times.  Especially Sunday morning. Oftentimes dad and I won't get out of bed or the bathroom until noontime! We aren't really religious types, even though we are both Catholic. So we have missed quite a few Masses.  But we never miss on the opportunity to worship each other's bodies. 

Father: I can safely say, that my daughter is my Viagra.  She keeps me running young.  Sometimes she wears me out,  but it is the best kind of weary a man can experience and always leaves a smile on my face. We’ll view online porn and try things we see.


FME: Describe your relationship now.

Chelsea: We are man and wife in our eyes now.  We’ve long been a couple, but did have our brother joining us whenever he could. But he understood that dad is my husband and I am dad's wife.  He has been quite excited and supportive of the arrangement all this time. It is up to my brother whether or not he rejoins us. Dad and I will always accept him in our fold. If he returned today, we would welcome him and have at it like we used to.  I really liked having both dad and my brother in me or me servicing them at the same time and would do it again in a heartbeat.

There are still days where dad and I will argue a point as father and daughter, but for the most part, we behave just like any other normal married couple. The roles have gradually developed into dad just being the loving husband and me, the loving wife. But our blood relationship is always in the back of our minds.

We have no children - yet.  I am 26 years-old, so my biological clock still has quite a few ticks in it. I would love to get pregnant with my father's baby.  It would complete our incestuous coupling and seal us together, forever.  We have discussed it. We may try to have a child together, soon. My father and I are not overly concerned about the ramifications of our DNA being the same. We are certain that the baby would be healthy and don't buy into the hype that he or she would be defective physically or mentally.


FME: Does anyone in your life know the full, true nature/history of your relationship and how did they find out? What kind of steps, if any, have you had to take to keep your privacy?

Chelsea: Other than my brother, my best girlfriend from high school knows about us.  I have spoken with her over the telephone and we have shared emails over the years.  My mom suspects something is going on because of the few times I have talked to her by telephone she knows that I have not legally married nor has dad legally remarried. Of course, the longer our absence, the more people and relatives will speculate as to where dad and I have disappeared to. My paternal grandfather is aware. We did move a few hundred miles from our immediate neighborhood so as not to arouse suspicion or confrontation. We don't want to flaunt our incestuous union. In a more perfect world, incest could and would be accepted throughout the world! Out here in Texas, nobody knows that we are father and daughter, so we can go to a park and kiss and hug, or hold hands  or have our arms around each other or on our shoulders while shopping at a mall or being intimate at a nice quiet restaurant without fear of being recognized and discovered for who we are.

Father: I confessed to my father awhile back ago after much prodding. He has kept mum about it also and just told me to keep things under wraps. I assured him that I love [her] and would never do anything to hurt her or force her into doing anything against her will.  He is the one that suggested that the best thing for us to do is to move away from the immediate area so as to fend off the naysayers and protesters out there, including other family members like some of the conservative aunts and uncles that would most likely wish that we “burn in hell.”  Dad and I correspond by phone and email to keep abreast of other family developments however.


FME: Having to hide the full nature of your relationship from some people can be a disadvantage. Can you describe how that has been?

Chelsea: For that reason, family reunions are out of the question. That is really the only big “con” in the pros and cons of our incestuous relationship. We are missing out on milestones such as cousins, nephews and nieces birthdays as well as the occasional wedding. That is the biggest disadvantage. Other than that major element,  my father and I are quite happy with the love affair that has grown and blossomed.  It has been said that a girl looks for a mate that is a lot like her father. In my case, my mate is my father and I wouldn't want it any other way and neither does my dad.


FME: What do you want to say to people who disapprove of your relationship, or disapprove of anyone having this kind of relationship? What's your reply to those who would say that this is one of you preying on the other and that you can’t truly consent?

Chelsea: Fortunately, my father and I have not had that confrontation as of this day. To them I would say, who are you to judge?  What about those who are married and get divorced, or how about those that abuse their spouses? Wife beaters,  even wife killers?   How about those who abuse or mistreat their children? Do they disapprove of that? My father and I are in a loving relationship that knows no limits. We have had our arguments, we have raised our voices over finances, clothes, maintenance on the car, leaving dirty dishes in the sink, etc. That is normal. But at no time has dad abused or taken advantage of me. I wanted this relationship from the beginning and so did dad. We have treated each other with dignity and respect and if and when we raise a family, we will bring our children up with unrestricted love and caring. Isn't that what life is all about?

Father: Everything with my daughter just fell into place. There was a natural progression to our sexual activity. I never took advantage of her, abused her, nor raped her. It was all a result of loving and gentle kindness. Nothing ever forced or coerced.  The word 'No' was as powerful then as it is now.


FME: Aside from the law, which I think is ridiculous, can you think of anything that would make relationships like this inherently wrong?

Chealsea: Yes, we are related, yes we of the same flesh and blood, but if we behave and live in a loving and cherished manner, what is so “inherently wrong” about that?  Besides, it is none of their business!  I would rather go to jail instead of separating myself from my father's strong arms and his warm embrace.


FME: If you could get legally married, and that included protections against discrimination, harassment, etc., would you?

Chelsea: As I mentioned before, I would absolutely love to become legally married to my father - my biological father. Yes world, my own biological father! I would be a blushing bride, but a proud one also - proud to be my father's legal wife and some day the mother of his children!

Father: If consensual incest were legal and totally accepted by society, instead of walking down the aisle with my daughter to give her up to another man,  I would be the proud groom,  waiting for someone to give her - to me - and ready to take my daughter's hand in marriage - to me.


FME: What advice do you have for someone who may be experiencing feelings for a father or daughter, or some other relative? What advice do you have for family members and friends who think or know that relatives they know are having these feelings for each other?

Chelsea: Explore those feelings. Drop hints here and there. Be subtle about it. Wait for the proper reaction. Display patience. Don't just go up to that relative and say “I want to jump your bones!” If, after some time, perhaps even a year or two, the feeling isn't reciprocated in any way, then it is time to move on. You don't want to miss a signal or a cue that is the exact opposite of what you hoped for. That could lead to an embarrassing situation that could be hard to extract yourself from. If the feelings of sexual attraction are mutual, by all means, be honest with each other. Set the ground rules as to what is expected and progress from there. Communications goes a long way

As for those who think or know of relatives that have a physical attraction to each other, as long as it is consensual and they are both of legal age, I say leave them be. Don't meddle in other people's affairs, be it they are relatives or not. Unless it directly affects you, stay out of it. The only time you should become involved is if you know someone is being mistreated or abused. Even then, that could be difficult.  


FME: What would you say to someone who doesn't believe you are for real?

Chelsea: They should read up on just how common and real incest is. Father/daughter, brother/sister, etc. It is more widespread than many of those doubters think and dates back to ancient times. Royal families used to engage in incestuous practices to keep the blood line pure. If they think that incest does not exist, then they are in denial, or living under a rock. Or they are fearful of the unknown, because incest is not part of their every day life. And incest will thrive and flourish as long as humans continue to roam the earth. As long as people interact together, depending on the functions or dysfunctions of the family structures, incest will be an alternative and/or a solution and remain prevalent in our society. 


FME: Have you met in-person or do you know anyone else who has experience with consanguineous sex or consanguinamory?

Chelsea: I have corresponded with a young woman that has had sexual trysts with her father.  They occurred when she was in college at the same school that I attended. She is now married and has a child with another man. I met her one time, when I was a Senior in college. It was a relief to unburden myself to someone that was not from my neighborhood, that had no family or friendly ties to my community. She opened up to me also. Alas, I haven't heard from her in a few months, but had been keeping in touch via email.

I haven't met in person another father/daughter couple but have encountered couples that look like they are dad and daughter, but don't know for sure. I see couples like this wherever I go; be it the shopping mall, supermarket, movie theater, restaurant and wonder to myself… Are they, could they?  Or am I the only one living as a “married” woman to my own father? I think not, but just haven't actually met with and sat down with a true, father and daughter that are in a similar arrangement as dad and I are. I hope to someday! I do have a limited few online contacts that I chat with or email on occasion that seem to be along the same lines as myself with children also.


FME: Any plans for the future?

Chelsea: Continuing to have sex with my father as long as we see fit, both mentally and physically.  Also, as mentioned earlier, try for a child and a family.  That would be wonderful! 

Father:  I just hope Chelsea still wants me when I am old and grey.

Chelsea: Of course I will daddy! I am your girl, always!

*****

There you have it. Consenting adults who aren't hurting anyone, but are denied their freedom to marry.

Why should they be denied their rights? There’s no good reason.We need to recognize that all adults should be free to be with any and all consenting adults as they mutually consent, and part of doing that is adopting relationship rights for all, including full marriage equality sooner rather than later. People are being hurt because of a denial of their basic human rights to love each other freely.

You can read other interviews I have done here.

If you are in a relationship like this and are looking for help or others you can talk with, read this.

Thank you to Chelsea and her hubby for doing this interview!

Read more »

Posted in: brother-sister,consanguineous,family reaction,father-daughter,lack of equality harms,love,Oklahoma,siblings,Texas

Request For Polyamorous People

The more books we have like this, the better, so please consider responding. Here is the request...

My name is Richard Gilmore. I am a member of a MFFM quad. We have been in this configuration for over 13 years. My partner Elon and I have written a book called, Creating A Line Family. Our editor (Alan of Poly in the Media) made a good suggestion, include personal stories. So what we are looking for are interview volunteers who are members of a poly family. Here are some of the questions we would like to hear about.

1. What types of intimacies - besides sexual - do you share with your partners?

2. What vision, or long range plans do you have for your family?

3. How are household chores managed, both regular duties and emergent failures?

4. How is "family money handled?" By this we are talking about real property ownership, investments, community personal property, etc.

5. How will you support launching any children?

6. How do you make decisions as a group?

7. Do you plan, or have any family businesses?

8. Do any other issues come to mind?

You can see an early, rough draft of the book at http://www.line-family.info/
We really need personal stories to make the book come alive. Funny stories are great, stories of failures can also be instructive.

All names, locations and personally identifying details will be changed to protect everyone's privacy.

The book price will be as low as we can make it. We really want this information out there. Therefore we expect to make little to no money on this publication. That means all we can offer you is our sincere thanks and maybe a signed copy of the book.

Please message me to arrange an interview.

Thank you for taking time to read and consider our request.
Richard

Richard can be reached at rlg at 4dreality dot com.

I will add whether or not you contact Richard, if you want to be interviewed by me (see this interview I have done), pleas write me at fullmarriageequality at yahoo dot com.

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Posted in: help,polyamory,polygamy

Samoa Still Imprisoning Consenting Adults

Jasmine Netzler reports at samoaobserver.ws...

A 59-year-old father and his 34-year-old daughter were jailed yesterday for incest.

The sentence was handed down by His Honour, Justice Vui Clarence Nelson, at the Supreme Court.

They are both consenting adults. Who is the victim of this "crime?"

The father was jailed for six years while his daughter was given 18 months.

Outrageous.

The daughter was banished following her relationship with her father being brought before their village council, Justice Vui said.

Her father on the other hand was ordered to provide 50 boxes of tinned fish. He was not banished.

Sounds like a shakedown.

During his sentencing remarks, Justice Vui said he was curious as to how the village reached its decision.

I want to know how he reached his decision.

The defendant was told that he knew his actions were wrong. This was portrayed when he refused the girl [daughter] during the first two times she had come to him.

He pretty much has to say it was wrong in court. Otherwise, they lock you up for even longer. Ridiculous.

Justice Vui told the man’s daughter that it was by her own word that she initiated “this elicit relationship”.

“Daughters as well as fathers must respect customs of this community,” he said.

I wonder what Justice Vui does in his private life?

Due to the ages, this appears to be a different case than ones in Samoa we have covered before, like this one.

There is no good reason to prosecute these lovers. Samoa, like so many other places including many US states, needs to let consenting adults  have their sexuality and relationships.

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Posted in: breaking up homes,consanguineous,father-daughter,incest,lack of equality harms,love,prosecution

When an Employer Realizes You Are Consanguinamorous

Not only are most consanguineous lovers still denied their right to marry, not only are they still subject to criminal prosecution in many places, but even where they are not violating any laws, they can be fired for being consanguinamorous. So most people in such relationships are not out to their employers.

But even if someone doesn't come out, others can tell sometimes. Haven't you ever seen people interacting and realized they were in love, even if they weren't holding hands or kissing in front of you? Sometimes, there is no hiding love.

Such was the case with one Friend of Lily, whose relationship with her brother was initiated through Genetic Sexual Attraction. She wrote this recently...

My boss (who I have known for about ten years) came straight out and asked me this afternoon when [we] had fallen in love with each other. She then went on to ask how long we had been in a relationship. You can only imagine what started to run through my head!

Of course the usual denial came into play, but it soon became clear that she wasn't buying it. So instead I asked how she worked it out. Appears that she had figured it out cause we had been arguing a lot and couldn't understand why it was upsetting me so much. She had said to me a few weeks ago that maybe I was better just to let go, I told her that I couldn't. 2 + 2 = 4 in this case.

I then asked if she was going to do anything about it; ie call the cops or child protective services.

She replied with "Who am I to judge, if the two of you love each other and your happy its none of my business or anyone else for that matter. Why would I call the cops or DCP anyhow it's got 'fcuk' all to do with them anyway'."

I then had to explain that it is illegal and that we could be thrown in jail. She was shocked to say the least.

I guess there are angels out there who do not judge and are just happy to see us happy. She even said that she would like to send us away for a weekend so that we can reconnect. Thinking I have the best boss in the world right now!

There's hardly a better reaction an employer, or anyone else for that matter, can have. Good for her!

How Consanguinamorous People Can Protect Themselves

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Posted in: allies,brother-sister,coming out,consanguineous,GSA,love,siblings

Coverage of Genetic Sexual Attraction Case

Ignorance abounds when it comes to Genetic Sexual Attraction, as evidenced by both many of the journalists writing about the Mistie Atkinson case and certainly the people commenting on the stories. Outlets all over the word have covered the story, most just reprinting versions of the same two or three articles. [I am bumping this up because a news outlet decided to print this story as if it just happened.]

Here it is at dailymail.co.uk. The headline?

Mom who made sex tape with son, 16, is jailed for four years... but says it was just a case of 'genetic attraction' after they were reunited after 15 years apart

That makes it sound like she was making a video to show others.

Mistie Rebecca Atkinson, 32, was sentenced to four years and eight months behind bars in Napa County Superior Court, California on Wednesday.

It came after she was found in a Ukiah, California motel room with the 16-year-old boy, who had recorded his mother giving him oral sex on his phone.

 So he recorded it.

Here's the coverage at nydailynews.com.

Here is it at newsone.com.

Here it is at ktvu.com.

Even a site called eastafricanmoviedatabase.com printed the article.

Seamus O'Riley blogged the NY Daily News article.

Here is one of the comments...

equinox displayed complete ignorance of GSA... 

When is a rose not a rose? Incest by any other name smells so sweet. Let's play innocence by semantics today! 

Must be nice to be so sure that nobody else could possibly experience something you haven't.

And there were several comments from people who said she must have intended to assault him from the start. After all, why else would a woman care about seeing the person to whom she gave birth? Ignorance abounds.

Here is the inquisitr.com coverage, and the kolotv.com coverage, and the bossip.com coverage, where she is called crazy. Finally, see this blog for the same sort of thing, where she os called "sicko."

This was most certainly not incest in the sociological sense. She was not the boy's guardian. She did not raise the boy. She should be treated no more harshly than any other 32 year-old woman who does the same things with a 16 year-old boy in the state of California. If anything, the sentences in GSA cases that don't involve violence should be more lenient and focus on counseling.

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Posted in: California,consanguineous,courts,family reaction,GSA,incest,law,mother-son,myths,prejudice,prosecution,reunion

19 Responses to Anti-Polyamory

Much thanks to MultipleMatch.com for running my defense of ethical nonmonogamy, such as polyamory, polygamy, and so on.

Click here to read "19 Responses for Answering Anti-Polyamory & Plural Marriage"

Bumped up.

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Posted in: group,myths,open,polyamory,polyandry,polygamy,polygyny,prejudice,swinging

Update on Zambia Attack on Family

Bertha Chipapuka, 35, with her 11-month-old baby and her ‘brotherly’ husband Mukuwa Nicholas Bulaya, 38, appeared before Serenje Magistrate’s Court for incest.

Authorities in Zambia continue with their attack on a family, which we wrote about here before. Chambo Ng'uni reports at daily-mail.co.zm...

SCORES of residents yesterday thronged the Serenje Magistrate’s Court to hear the case of incest involving Mukuwa Nicholas Bulaya and his younger sister Bertha Mwenda Chipapuka. 

Some residents arrived at Serenje Magistrate’s Court before 08:00 hours and scrambled for a few seats inside the courtroom when the doors were opened while others stood on the doorway and windows to hear the case.

So much interest. Are they voyeurs?

Mr Ngosa said the court decided to hear the cases against Bulaya and Chipapuka separately in the interest of justice since the two siblings are separately charged.

And the victim is....? Is...? No victim! No crime!

“I am asking for my sister to be released so that she can look for the things that the child needs and also bring me food and soap since no one from our family has visited us since we were arrested,” Bulaya said.

Mr Ngosa rejected the application and told Bulaya that he had no powers to release his sister (Chipapuka) because her case was being heard by another court.

Infuriating.

Let them go and apologize for ever interfering. Of course, even if that happened, their lives have been ruined by the outrageous bigotry and invasion of privacy to which they're being subjected. There is no good reason for this to be a matter for law enforcement to begin with.

Ten Myths About Sibling Consanguinamory

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Posted in: Africa,breaking up homes,brother-sister,children,consanguineous,family reaction,GSA,incest,lack of equality harms,love,prejudice,prosecution,siblings

Less Bloom in the Flowers?

Jean Bentley at zap2it.com wrote that the Lifetime adaptation "Flowers in the Attic" needs more incest.

Cutting some of the especially creepy and disturbing stuff from the book for the Lifetime audience -- the blood feeding and the rape, in particular -- makes sense. But just one chaste kiss between the two adolescent siblings? Come on, we're all here for the soapy incest. Quit pretending we're not.

Have you seen it? What did you think have you read the books?

Of course, if you want brightly blooming flowers, read Diane Rinella's writings that touch on the themes of consanguinamory and abuse. Rinella's works definitely deserve screen adaptations.

Read more »

Posted in: brother-sister,consanguineous,incest,media,siblings

Martin Luther King, Jr.

In the US, Monday is a holiday, Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Day. He was a giant in the fight for civil rights.



Over four decades after he was assassinated, the fight for civil rights continues.

History is on our side. Consenting adults will be free to exercise their rights to share love, sex, residence, and marriage.

Are like those who kept trying to keep some people second-class citizens, or are you like the people who marched with King?

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Posted in: allies,marriage equality,prejudice,USA

Out In Africa

Thabo Seroke has an important commentary printed at thoughtleader.co.za about human rights and civil rights in some African countries.

A couple of months ago, Uganda asked a question that could usher in the systematic hate aimed at a group of people. The question was simple: Who is going to inspire the senseless murder of gender-variant people in Africa?

This was not a view that needed to be vocalised by Ugandans, but many nations responded. Nigeria is the latest. The Same Sex Marriage Prohibition Act, which provides penalties of up to 14 years imprisonment for gay marriage and a maximum of 10 years for membership or encouragement of gay clubs, societies and LGBTI organisations, was last week signed into law by Nigerian President Goodluck Jonathan.

Since then, nearly 40 people have been arrested and many more threatened with violence.

Frightening stuff.

History provides many examples of same-sex practices such as the “boy-wives” of the Azande in contemporary Sudan and Congo, the gender-crossing queers of the Hausa Bori culture in … wait for it … modern-day Nigeria! Lesbian relations were also prominent among co-wives in polygamous marriages in 19th century Southern Sudan — the same polygamous practice frowned upon by the western world — which leads me to an unsurprising fact. Colonialism imposed this prejudice and other divisive ideals on a number of non-western societies.

Same-gender sexuality and relationships, as well as polyamorous relationships, are nothing new.

The issue in countries such as Uganda, Malawi and Nigeria isn’t a “gay issue”, it’s a human-rights issue.

Precisely!

We must stand up for the rights of ALL.

Read more »

Posted in: Africa,lack of equality harms,LGBT,Malawi,polygamy,polygyny,same-sex,Uganda

Frequently Asked Question: Why Is Incest Illegal?

It shouldn’t be illegal anywhere, as you’ll see. As always, we note that we are talking about consensual incest, such as between consenting adults and between minors close in age. We are not talking about anything involving coercion or force or molestation. There are laws against rape, assault, and molestation, and they should remain. We are talking about consensual incest, consanguineous sex and marriage, and consanguinamory, whether initiated through Genetic Sexual Attraction or not.

Short answer: It isn’t illegal everywhere, but where it is, it is the lingering result of sex-police holdovers, superstition, prejudice, and legislative inertia.

Long answer:



A significant part of the reason is that some cultures have an ancient taboo against incest, which begs the question, “Why is incest taboo?”

There seems to be more than one plausible reason why some cultures have had an incest taboo, in addition to protecting the power of the leaders.

1) The taboo appears to be an adoption as law or culture of the biological Westermarck effect, which is a common experience but not one experienced by everyone. Because of this effect, many people develop an avoidance of their close family members as sexual partners, and people have often expected that everyone feels the same way they do, and in many cases try to discourage people from acting differently than they do. But for those who, due to separation or some other reason, don’t experience the Westermarck effect, the bond becomes especially strong if it grows into a consanguinamorous one. It could be that if nobody had experienced the Westermarck effect, most people wouldn’t have ever “left the nest” (unless driven out by the dominant male) and the human race would have had a harder time developing genetic diversity, which was very important to survival when the human population was low. Without a growing and genetically diverse population, the entire population could have easily been wiped out by one disease. We hardly have that problem anymore. So in that respect, the Westermarck effect is vestigial and the taboo is no longer needed. (Note that the need for a growing population was also important when everything was accomplished through much physical labor, requiring many people. This was also one of the reasons why some cultures discouraged same-gender pairing that excluded males from bonding with females and making babies.)

2) Also, in patriarchal societies, it was common to trade daughters away in a business deal or to form alliances with other clans or nations. Especially if virginity was valued in new brides, it didn’t help matters if she was in love with, and making love with, her brother. But as with the previous reason, life has changed much and fewer segments of humanity are trading daughters like bargaining chips.

3) When the entire town or village was expected to attend the same church or temple, the taboo was reinforced if that religion had a prohibition against it. But in many places, this is no longer the case.

Incest was one of many things prohibited in the ancient nation of Israel, per the Torah. Church and political authorities have found incest prohibitions useful not only as part of overall control of sexuality, but for making accusations against opponents and the inconvenient (and how does one prove that they didn’t have sex with someone else?)… and to prevent any one other family from building up and retaining too much power. While royals in Egypt, Hawaii, Europe, and elsewhere married siblings, cousins, and other relatives to retain power, they often  denied other people that right for the same reason.

The religion-imposed taboo should not be underestimated, and leads us into the Other Reasons Incest is Illegal in Some Places.

In many places, there has been an official national or state religion, perhaps with a religious organization having at least some direct influence on the laws. Even in the US, where the Constitution now guarantees freedom of religion and there has been a firmly established separation of church and state, some states were originally colonies established with their own official churches. New states often set up their laws by copying from existing states, and the US has had some Puritan origins, later Victorian influence, and so forth. Famously, alcohol was banned under Prohibition less than a hundred years ago. Before that, women couldn’t even vote and there were many restrictions placed on women that were not placed on men, and thus there was gender inequality under the law and a woman was more or less the property of her father or brother until or unless she married, at which time she became the property of her husband.

Female schoolteachers were expected to abstain from sex or resign if they married. Female pageant contestants had to swear that they were virgins. Until recently, it was common for college dormitory buildings (if not the college itself) to be segregated by gender, complete with curfews and supervisors to try to make sure that students, who were 18 years and older, were not having sex (heterosexual, anyway). Innkeepers, landlords, and property sellers would routinely (often by law) refuse to accommodate or do business with unmarried, mixed-gendered couples.

Boys and young men routinely faced criminal charges for consensual sex with females (or men of any age could be civilly charged with “breach of promise”.)

It was common to have laws against anything but heterosexual intercourse between a husband and a wife. That meant oral sex between a husband and wife was technically illegal, as was any gay or lesbian sex (gay bars were raided by police), unmarried sex or cohabitation; even sex toys and birth control have been illegal in some places. There are still places in the US where someone can be sued for “alienation of affection” for having sex with a married person. Never mind that, even where illegal, brothels have always existed, and fathers have taken their sons to them for their son to have pleasant sexual encounter with a professional, and have mingled with people in power as fellow customers. Never mind that quietly having lovers on the side has been something that has always taken place.

There have also been, and in many ways remain, laws against and restrictions on various forms of dancing, nudity, “crossdressing,” and erotica.

With this sex-negative attitude, it isn’t surprising that there have been laws against incest. What may be surprising is that such laws have remained on the books. There has been a progression of civil rights in places like the US that is moving towards an adult having the right to share love, sex, residence, and marriage with any consenting adults, but we’re still not there. Loving v. Virginia struck down bans on (heterosexual, monogamous) interracial marriages. The Lawrence s. Texas decision struck down laws against gay sex. Cases regarding polyamory and (monogamous) same-sex marriage are currently winding their way through US courts.

In order for remaining laws against consensual incest to be removed, we'll likely need a good test case for the courts. What that would require is a respectable and otherwise law-abiding (and attractive wouldn’t hurt) long-term consanguinamorous couple to fight a state law against consensual incest. The catch-22 is that since people can be, and are, prosecuted for engaging in this consensual relationship, lovers have a strong motivation to hide these relationships, and that is a hindrance to getting the laws changed. It would help if a couple in a state, such as Rhode Island, with no law against consensual incest, applied for a marriage license and subsequently got the courts to overturn prohibitions on consanguineous marriages. However, in addition to fear of prosecution and other legal problems, some people who are, or have been, involved in consanguinamory would prefer the law and/or the taboo remain in place, either because they like being the rebel, they are self-loathing, or they can’t (anymore) have what they want and they don’t want anyone else to have it, either. But they are the minority; most people involved in these relationships very much want their rights.

Throughout all of history, around the world, royal or peasants, urban or royal, rich or poor, there have been close relatives engaging in experimentation or having lifelong spousal-type relationships, and everything in between. You know people who have been involved in consanguinamory whether you know it or not, and whether or not your genealogical charts reveal it, chances are that you don’t have to go too far back in your family tree to find an ancestor whose true biological parents were close relatives.

There are people in relationships right now who would benefit if they had their right to marry. There is now no good reason to keep these laws and the taboo that deny an adult the right to share love, sex, residence, and marriage with any consenting adults. We’re not all going to want the same love lives as each other, but we should allow people to have the relationships of their mutual choosing, the ones in which they will function best.

An adult should be free to share love, sex, residence, and marriage with any and all consenting adults without being subjected to prosecution, bullying, or discrimination.

How You Can Help


Question: Why is incest illegal? Is incest illegal? Why is incest wrong? Is incest wrong? Why is consensual incest illegal? Is consensual incest illegal? Why is consensual incest wrong? Is consensual incest wrong? Why is incest illegal between consenting adults?

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Posted in: consanguineous,FAQ,freedom to marry,incest,law,myths,prejudice,prosecution,religion,stigma

A Polyamorous Woman Denied Her Right to Marry

By my count, this is the twenty-ninth ongoing relationship I've covered through exclusive interviews in which the lovers are denied the freedom to be open about their love and are denied their fundamental right to marry.

Zoey is a beautiful young woman, someone you might give a nod and smile to if you saw her shopping in your local store. If you want to see her NOT SAFE FOR WORK Tumblr, you can find it here.


Read the interview below and ask yourself if there is one good reason her right to love the adults she does should be denied.


*****


FULL MARRIAGE EQUALITY: Describe your background.

Zoey: I am almost 23. I am in a type of polyamory/open relationship with my girlfriend Tess (almost 25) and my boyfriend Jack (almost 24). These are our fake names used for anonymous purposes only of course.


FME: Are you legally married or have you ever been legally married?

No, I am not married. I have not ever been married either.


FME: How would you describe your sexual orientation... are you heterosexual, bisexual, what?

I am bisexual.


FME: You currently live with…?

My boyfriend Jack, Girlfriend Tess, our 3 kids, Jack’s mother and his younger sister.


FME: Please describe your polyamorous relationship.

Neither I nor Tess get jealous if we have one-on-one time with Jack. But, there is always time for some group play. Jack even prefers if all three of us make love together. As for how things work, it’s simple, really. Jack has the job in the relationship and Tess and I watch the kids - for now. I’ve been trying to get a job as well so that I can help him with the bills. It’s seems unfair to me that he has to support the 6 of us by himself.


FME: How did this polycule form? Was it a sudden event or a gradual process? Was there a clear initiator?

Originally, I met Jack when we were both working at a haunted house. At the time I was currently in a monogamous relationship with a guy that I used to go to school with, who was also working at the same place but in a different part of the attraction. Jack was very flirty and silly. I clicked with him instantly. He told me a little bit about himself and how he had kids and a girlfriend that was bisexual. I confessed to him that I was also bisexual. We became close friends.

After the season was over I went back to my life with my boyfriend. A lot of drama started between me and my boyfriend’s mother. She found out that I was bisexual because she googled my name. What she didn’t know was that it was a different ‘Zoey’ that she found but, she’s the kind of person where once her mind was set there was no changing it. She was disgusted with me and forced my boyfriend to kick me out. I ended up moving in with my dad and that’s when I got back in touch with Jack. I had a friend request from him on my Facebook. We talked for about a month then he invited me over one random September day. That was when everything fell into place. We all clicked and I’ll admit, it was a sudden occurrence. But, it’s one that I will never regret or forget.


FME: Describe your relationship now.

Now our relationship is more refined and unrevealed except the occasional hugs and kisses but at night when our kids are asleep it’s still very sexual and romantic.

In the aspect of the 3 children that are in our relationship, I am basically a 'step-mother' to Tess's two kids and she is the 'step-mother' to my son. Jack is simply daddy to all of them. It works out wonderfully. In the future Jack and I would like to have more kids. Tess is physically unable to birth any more children so she has been thinking about adoption, and so have I. We all have always wanted a big family and every child deserves a home and a loving family that they can call their own. But, because of our current governmental standing... I don't know how well that would work, if at all.


FME: What are the sleeping arrangements? Is there a schedule?

Tess sleeps by the wall, Jack is in the middle and I sleep on the outside. We share a King sized bed. The only schedules that we follow are Jack’s work schedule and the schedule of our kids. Only one of them is old enough for school and the other two is the job of us stay-at-home mammas.


FME: What kind of rules/agreements for maintaining the relationship are there?

There’s really no rules. We all get along so well.


FME: What is your past experience with polyamory, if any?

Until this relationship that I’m currently in, I had no prior experience. And, I will admit that in the beginning Tess and I had our fair share of jealousy. She wasn’t used to a polyamory relationship either.


FME: Who are you out to? How were you outed? What has been the reaction by family, friends, neighbors, coworkers, random strangers, etc.?

Random strangers are funny. They give us the strangest looks when we’re out together. Me, Tess and Jack have gotten to the point where we don’t care about their looks or we just tell them to f--- off! That’s only if they are being rude though. For everyone else I just posted a status update on Facebook. Although, with my mother I sent a private message. At first she did not accept as easily as the rest but, after some time and my son (her grandson) she was much more accepting.


FME: Is there anything you've had to do to hide the nature of your relationship from anyone? Having to hide can be a lot of trouble. Are there other disadvantages to being in a relationship like this? Conversely, do you think polyamorous relationships have some advantages?

The only people we’ve had to hide from is the government. But, the reason to that is obvious. And, in the sexual aspect there is an advantage for Jack. If one of us is on our period then he can play around with the other. His only disadvantage is when we’re both on our period at the same time.


FME: What do you want to say to people who disapprove of your relationship, or disapprove of anyone having this kind of relationship? What's your reply to those who would say that women are victimized by a relationship like this?

I would say that they are wrong! We are not victimized by our relationship. The only way that I would see us as a ‘victim’ is if Jack was abusive. Which he is NOT!


FME: Can you think of anything that would make relationships like this inherently wrong?

I can’t think of anything wrong with my relationship. Unless it’s abusive, like I have stated above.


FME: If you could have a legal polyamorous marriage, and that included protections against discrimination, harassment, etc., would you? Or even if you do not want a legal polyamorous marriage, do you see a need for protections against discrimination?

Yes, we’ve all already discussed marriage. We ALL want to be united. Both Tess and I have already stated that if we were to get married we would take Jacks last name. And, if we ever decided not to get married for whatever reason then protection against discrimination would be wonderful.


FME: What advice do you have for someone who thinks they may be polyamorous or may want to enter into a polyamorous relationship?

Make sure that the people that will be involved in the polyamorous relationship get along without any type of jealousy. Major conflicts would be good to avoid but, there’s no avoiding tiny little conflicts. Every relationship, whether it be polyamorous, monogamous, or otherwise will have some type of little conflicts. It’s unavoidable.


FME: What advice do you have for family members and friends who are having trouble coming to grips with the reality of their family member or friend being polyamorous?

If you need any other kind of advice you can contact us online at our blog. If you would like to talk to a specific person then specify the name with your message please.


FME: Do you know/meet up with other polyamorous families?

No, we do not, but I think it would be fun to be able to hang out with other like-minded families.


FME: Any plans for the future?

As of now, our only plan is to keep living life happy. The way we are now with no interruptions from the government trying to break us apart. If we are ever able to get married then that would be our next future plan.


FME: Anything else you want to add?

If you would like to talk to us personally you may do so at our blog. Just be sure to specify whom you are talking too in your message.  All three of us run the blog together and if you did not specify it can be confusing.

*****

Here is their NOT SAFE FOR WORK Tumblr blog:
http://ourtriplesexstory.tumblr.com/

There you have it. Consenting adults who aren't hurting anyone, but who have to hide their love, denied their right to marry.

Why should they be denied their rights? There’s no good reason.We need to recognize that all adults should be free to be with any and all consenting adults as they mutually consent, and part of doing that is adopting relationship rights for all, including full marriage equality sooner rather than later. People are being hurt because of a denial of their basic human rights to love each other freely.

You can read other interviews I have done here.

If you are in a relationship like this and are looking for help or others you can talk with, read this.

Thank you to Zoey for doing this interview!

Read more »

Posted in: bisexual,children,coming out,family reaction,freedom to marry,lack of equality harms,love,open,polyamory,polygamy,polygyny,triads

A Young Woman Denied Her Rights

By my count, this is the twenty-eighth ongoing relationship I've covered through exclusive interviews in which the lovers are denied the freedom to be open about their love and are denied their fundamental right to marry. This is a possible case of Genetic Sexual Attraction.

Jacquelynn is a beautiful young woman. If you want to see her NOT SAFE FOR WORK Tumblr, you can find it here.


Read the interview below and ask yourself if there is one good reason her right to love the adults she does should be denied.


*****


FULL MARRIAGE EQUALITY: Describe your background.

Jacquelynn: My name is Jacquelynn. I’m a white female American of legal age. I live on the North East side of the U.S. I am the oldest blood sister of 6 (soon to be 7) siblings. None of my siblings are my full siblings. They are all my half-siblings.


FME: Are you married or have you ever been married?

No, I am not married. Nor have I ever been married.


FME: How would you describe your sexual orientation and your relationship?

I am bisexual and in a genetically incestuous relationship.




FME: You currently live with…?

Roommates would be the best way to describe them.


FME: You are in a sexual relationship with your genetic half-brother?

Yes, I am. I love him so much.


FME: What kind of relationship did you and your brother have, if any, while growing up?

While growing up we had no relationship whatsoever. I didn’t end up reuniting with my little brother until I was 18. It was so much fun. I really enjoyed seeing him for the first time in so many years. But, what I wasn’t expecting was the strong attraction to him that I felt. It may seem cliché but, it was actually “love at first sight”.


FME: Do you know the term "Genetic Sexual Attraction," and if so, when did you find out about that? Do you think that is what you were feeling with your brother?

Yes, I know what “Genetic Sexual Attraction” is. I Googled it a few years ago. I do feel genetic sexual attraction to my brother, but it’s more than just the sexual attraction. I’m romantically involved with him as well. I’m in love with him.


FME: How did sexual affection become a part of your relationship?

The way that it happened initially was sudden. Allow me to explain… I've been having dreams of making love with my brother for years and it had finally gotten the better of me. Then came the hard part... I had to talk to my brother about it. When I confided in my brother I made sure to stress to him that it was only a dream and if he said no I would not be mad. It took him like a week to think about it. I agreed and waited patiently. He was shocked to say the least. But, after he got done thinking about it I can safely say that I was more shocked than him when he told me that he would like to (physically) be a part of my fantasy. I invited him over one night and when everyone was asleep we made love. For him it was his first time, with me being a few years older than him. I made sure to take it slow and I told him that if he was uncomfortable with anything that we were doing to let me know. After our first time together as lovers we were hooked. I created my blog and shortly after he created his as well. On our blogs we go by false names so that no one will know who we are. It was a very happy and floating kind of buzz. Such an amazing feeling.


FME: How do you describe the sex/lovemaking now? Taboo? Natural? Especially erotic? Is it family-with-benefits, an affair, girlfriend-boyfriend, a marriage, what?

I would describe it as a few things… Family-with-benefits, lovers, best friends and girlfriend-boyfriend.


FME: You also had prior experience with your maternal uncle. How did things go with him, and why did they stop? Did anyone find out about it? How did they react?

I had approached my uncle with questions about sex and the male physical body because I was too scared to approach my parents. Little did I know that my answers would become somewhat erotic. Back then I had no idea what incest was and when I fooled around with my uncle I had no idea that it was considered 'forbidden' or 'taboo'. All I knew was that I loved my uncle and I enjoyed our private time together. I think that's where all of my incestuous urges and desires came from. My uncle and I had lost touch over the years because he lives in a different state and I had no way to contact him.

My family found out about it. In the time where we lost touch I felt hurt, used and betrayed because he left without any explanation. So, I mistakenly confided in one of my siblings. I had no idea that the sibling was going to go home and blab. I was entrusting my sibling with my deepest secret because I needed someone to talk to about it. When I got home all hell broke loose with my mother, who had no idea until then. She thought that I was lying. I was in tears because I was telling the truth and felt like she wasn't gonna believe me. My mother threatened to call my uncle and get the truth from him because she was positive that I was lying. I was so scared that he was gonna lie to save his own ass.

To my relief he confessed to everything. My mother came back to me afterwards and hugged me and apologized for calling me a liar. She informed my grandpa about it all and between the two of them they made sure to keep us apart.


FME: Some people say consanguineous eroticism is inherently kinky, but I have found that for many it doesn't feel kinky. What about for you? Some say it is the best sex they've ever had.

It is the best sex that I’ve ever had. But, I must agree that it doesn’t feel kinky.


FME: Describe your relationship with your brother now. Are you siblings or lovers or are those two roles inseparable?

We are still family (as our cover story) but, behind the scenes we are lovers and in a boyfriend/girlfriend type of relationship. We do not live together. Our roles are definitely inseparable. There is definitely a huge difference between my relationship with my uncle and the one that I currently have with my brother. With my uncle we were just teasing each other because he was too scared to get caught or to get me pregnant. With Asreal we are still careful so that we don’t get caught but, at the same time it’s more than just teasing. We make love.


FME: Does anyone in your life know the full, true nature/history of your relationship with your brother and how did they find out?

Only a few people that I have told know my full true story. The only family that knows is my uncle… I think you can understand my reasoning’s behind that. They have reacted just fine. Like it’s a normal occurrence. Sadly, we are not able to act like a couple in public. Everyone that we know knows us as siblings so it would be awkward if we were to run into some of our friends or family… We are siblings to everyone that knows us.


FME: What kind of steps, if any, have you had to take to keep your privacy? Having to hide the full nature of your relationship from some people can be a disadvantage. Can you describe how that has been?

We have had to take every cautionary step possible. It’s been relatively easy hiding our true nature, but I hate having to hide it. I wish that everyone would accept us as a couple and be perfectly fine with it. It should be a normal thing. We are consenting adults after all!


FME: What do you want to say to people who disapprove of your relationship, or disapprove of anyone having this kind of relationship? What's your reply to those who would say that this is one of you preying on the other (and that you can’t truly consent)?

I would tell them to get a life that way they could leave mine alone.


FME: Aside from the law, which I think is ridiculous, can you think of anything that would make relationships like this inherently wrong?

It would only be wrong in my eyes if the relationship was not between consenting adults.


FME: If you could get legally married, and that included protections against discrimination, harassment, etc., would you? Or is this a different kind of relationship than that?

Yes, I would LOVE to marry my brother.


FME: What advice do you have for someone who may be experiencing feelings for a sibling or some other relative?

I would say this: Come talk to me. My blog is always open and the advice that I would give is always true, free and personal. I normally talk to the person one-on-one and then after hearing their story and emotions I would give my advice. Also, if they would like for me to keep their advice private LET ME KNOW. Otherwise I post my advice with their original question (not the personal story) for others to read that may be having the same thoughts and situations.


FME: What advice do you have for family members and friends who think or know that relatives they know are having these feelings for each other?

Sames as I just said. Come talk to me.


FME: Do you know in-person others who have had relationships like yours?

No, I do not. But, I would love to meet some.


FME: What do you have to say to anyone who says you're not for real?

You need to get out more! Relationships like this DO happen.


FME: Anything else you want to add?

If anyone needs advice you may follow me and Asreal on Tumblr.

*****

Here are their NOT SAFE FOR WORK Tumblr blogs:
http://awesomesexysister.tumblr.com/
http://the-wonderful-world-of-porn.tumblr.com/


There you have it. Consenting adults who aren't hurting anyone, but who have to hide their love, denied their right to marry.

Why should they be denied their rights? There’s no good reason.We need to recognize that all adults should be free to be with any and all consenting adults as they mutually consent, and part of doing that is adopting relationship rights for all, including full marriage equality sooner rather than later. People are being hurt because of a denial of their basic human rights to love each other freely.

You can read other interviews I have done here.

If you are in a relationship like this and are looking for help or others you can talk with, read this.

If you are a family member or friend of someone who is in or may be in such a relationship, please read this.

Thank you to Jacquelynn  for doing this interview!

Read more »

Posted in: brother-sister,consanguineous,family reaction,GSA,lack of equality harms,love,reunion,siblings,uncle-niece

A Pansexual Woman Denied Her Rights

By my count, this is the twenty-seventh ongoing relationship I've covered through exclusive interviews in which the lovers are denied the freedom to be open about their love and are denied their fundamental right to marry. This one is with a beautiful Anonymous Woman who is polyamorous and consanguinamorous.

Read the interview below and ask yourself if there is one good reason her right to love the adults she does should be denied. There is some mildly graphic description of sexual activity.


*****


FULL MARRIAGE EQUALITY: Describe your background.

Anonymous Woman: I work in the film and television inudstry. I have a degree in Cinematic Arts. I currently homeschool a few children that aren't mine. I would say I'm from a middle to upper class background. My dad is from Europe and my mom is from Central America. My brother is my only sibling. I'm 37, and fairly pansexual, meaning I don't really care what gender someone is. I am tall and fit.



FME: Are you married or have you ever been married?

I have never been married and have no children. I want to have kids.


FME: You currently live with…?

Currently, I live in my parents' house. I do not live with my parents because they decided to move to another city, but wanted to keep the house in the family not sell it.


FME: How would you describe your relationship orientation?

Right now, what I have is a relationship with three people, a trans male-to-female girlfriend, my brother, and my sister in law. We have all been together a couple of times and they have all been with each other. It is difficult to call it an actual polyamory relationship because except for my brother and sister-in-law we don't live in the same cities. I am not saying I want or expect this to be the relationship I have forever. I do think given my pansexual orientation and need for affection that a polyamorous relationship of some type would be best. I am really pansexual. I like both genders and I like male-to-female transsexuals.


FME: What kind of relationship did you and your brother have while growing up?

My brother and I never had sex while growing up. I did spy on his liaisons with girlfriends a little bit. But not until the last couple of years did we have a sexual relationship. We apparently both had these feelings about each other but never acted on them. Who initiated the triad was his wife, however, not him and not me.

FME: How did that happen?

It basically started one night when they were over at my old apartment because they were in town and needed some alone time, and my parents' house was crowded. I was spying on them having sex and I was naked and they caught me masturbating to them. We were somewhat embarrassed and apologized and laughed and everything being awkward, and then rather suddenly my sister in law drops to her knees and begins to perform oral sex on me. That is how it all started.

The way that sort of worked was that my brother first got involved with us just watching. But after a while we just started playing with each other as part of the process, and one thing lead to another and we were f---ing each other that same night.

I always was attracted to my brother, and frequently said if he wasn't married and wasn't my brother I'd probably want to be his girlfriend. But I had never really thought about acting on it.

FME: Describe your relationship now. Are you siblings, boyfriend/girlfriend? What about the sex?

It is complicated. I don't know how to describe it. It is some of the best sex I ever had. It can be kinky but it's not always kinky. Except for that little detail about me having sex with my brother, it would probably be a lot less kinky. We don't have sex all the time. Maybe only 5 or 6 of these situations a year and usually not all four or us at the same time. I know that people will assume we're meeting every weekend and doing absolutely bizarre things but it's not like that. We see each other and interact more as family than as any other role. Even with my girfriend it has become less unbridled sex and more planning to have a family.

FME: Does anyone in your life know the full, true nature/history of your relationship and how did they find out? How have they reacted?

The polyamorous relationship is known about by some friends but is a complete secret to my parents. Their oldest daughter picked up that there is an occasional sexual relationship between me and her mother. The other kids do not now anything. The whole family understands I am bisexual. My parents are Catholic, and while they probably would rather see me meet a guy, they accepted that part of me. I used to be a drug addict do all kinds of illegal [stuff]. They managed to get me into recovery, and have been supportive of anything which is a legitimate lifestyle. They dread me falling back to being an addict more than any sexual orientation, and as long as I'm not selling myself they are okay with it. However, I do not think they would ever accept my brother and I as lovers.

FME: Having to hide the full nature of your relationship from some people can be a disadvantage. Can you describe how that has been? Are there any other disadvantages? Conversely, do you think consanguineous relationships have some advantages and some things better than unrelated lovers?

Here is a big advantage: several of us get to have several needs of ours satisified, including my girlfriend who, frankly, has a problem dealing with men but nonetheless has some attraction to them. We're all somewhat bisexual. We all love each other. It is safe... no diseases, no risks of violence, nothing like you would risk dating people you really don't know.


FME: Is this a closed group?

We are not closed, we are open to finding other people and are actually trying to do it, especially my girlfriend and I.

FME: Any plans for the future?

I made a decision for biological clock reasons to try to have a baby. My girfriend has offered to be the legal second parent for the kid and to use my brother as the sperm donor. There is the downside of slightly higher chances for birth defects but there is also a risk in that of waiting until my 40's or whenever I found a boyfriend. We're going to have a legal agreement drawn up stating that we are doing this so we cannot be charged with incest. There's laws against us f---ing each other but none against using a sibling for a sperm donor. An advantage of this is, we know where the DNA is coming from, in case a medical condition develops. And as well, when the question comes about as to how I had a baby artificially, we thought that having the "true parent" being her uncle than a total stranger would go over better.


FME: What do you want to say to people who disapprove of your relationship, or disapprove of anyone having this kind of relationship?

Well, we're all well into adulthood and we all love each other. It is safe, and it is an extension of our love for one another. This is something that developed in adulthood. We're all over 35. It meets needs we have as bisexual people better than going out and trying to swing.


FME: What's your reply to those who would say that this is one of you preying on the other (and that you can’t truly consent?)

What can't we consent to? I'm not being blackmailed or extorted. I'm not being raped. I can say no. In fact, shortly after this first happened I DID say no. But I decided I didn't want to say no anymore.


FME: Aside from the law, which I think is ridiculous, can you think of anything that would make relationships like this inherently wrong?

Yeah, if there was force or compulsion of any kind used in it.


FME: If you could get legally married, and that included protections against discrimination, harassment, etc., would you? Or is this a different kind of relationship than that?

That's complicated. Firstly, I'm a political libertarian and don't believe the state should be involved in marriage. Then if we did do that we'd have to consider my parents and my brother's kids. We aren't anywhere near that kind of a decision though even if it were possible.


FME: What advice do you have for family members and friends who think or know that relatives they know are having these feelings for each other?

Just don't try and shame people and make them feel guilty.


*****


There you have it. Consenting adults who aren't hurting anyone, but who have to hide their love.

Why should they be denied their rights? There’s no good reason.We need to recognize that all adults should be free to be with any and all consenting adults as they mutually consent, and part of doing that is adopting relationship rights for all, including full marriage equality sooner rather than later. People are being hurt because of a denial of their basic human rights to love each other freely.

You can read other interviews I have done here.

If you are in a relationship like this and are looking for help or others you can talk with, read this.

If you are a family member or friend of someone who is in or may be in such a relationship, please read this.

Thank you to Anonymous Woman for doing this interview!

Read more »

Posted in: bisexual,brother-sister,consanguineous,family reaction,LGBT,love,open,PCM,polyamory,pregnancy,same-sex,siblings,triads