World AIDS Day

December 1 is World AIDS Day. It is very important to remember those we've lost to AIDS, to care for anyone battling AIDS, and to care for anyone with HIV. We must continue to work for a cure and continue to fight the spread of HIV.

We should also never forget that stigmas, ignorance, bigotry, sex-negative attitudes and shaming have helped spread HIV and AIDS.

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Ten Myths About Sibling Consanguinamory

I’ve noticed some common myths expressed about sibling consanguinamory. In this instance, by consanguinamory, I mean everything from curious exploration and experimenting to erotic romance, including masturbating in front of each other, erotic kissing, sexual touching or rubbing, oral sex, intercourse, etc.

This entry is NOT addressing molestation, assault, or abuse.

I’m referring to adult siblings, or minor siblings who are close in age, engaging in mutual affection or experimentation, without coercion, force, or intimidation. It may be two siblings alone, it may be three or more siblings, or it may be two or more siblings involved together with one or more people outside of the immediate family.

These myths need to be addressed, because they perpetuate inequality, discrimination, hardship, confusion, stigmas, ignorance, and fear.

Myth #1 “It doesn’t happen” or “It happens very rarely” or “I don’t know anyone who has done this.” Just because one person hasn’t been involved or doesn’t remember being involved with sibling doesn’t mean it isn’t happening with others. It is, and it always has. Ongoing sexual relationships between siblings are common enough that everyone knows someone who is, or has been in, such a relationship, and far more siblings than that have had an encounter or experimented, explored, or played doctor. Reality: We all know people who've been involved, whether we know it or not.

Myth #2 “Siblings don’t have sex, rather it is always that one sibling abuses another” or ”It only happens between siblings who have been abused or neglected” or “It always means they need therapy.” At the heart of this is myth is that, because of the dynamics between siblings, one sibling can’t consent to have sex with another. This ignores siblings who weren’t raised together, but even with siblings who were raised together, the claim that one can’t consent to sex with another is an unsupported assertion based on personal aversion, a personal history of abuse, ignorance, or even the absurd notion that females don’t want or enjoy sex. If an 18-year-old woman can legally consent to group sex with three male cage fighters who are strangers to her, or consent to be the mistress of a billionaire with a spouse and children, the President of the United States, or a someone who rented a room in her childhood home and was present for her entire childhood, how can we be consistent in saying that she can't consent to sex with her twin brother or sister? When it comes to minors, most family therapists don’t consider it abuse if minors close in age experiment or have sex; it is considered mutual experimentation (think teenagers who are four or fewer years apart). Abuse and sex are two different things. Sex does happen in some families. Unfortunately, so does abuse. But they aren’t the same thing. Reality: Some siblings do willingly share this at some point in their lives, and may not need therapy at all.

Myth #3. “It only happens as youthful experimentation. Adults don't do this.” While such contact is more common among siblings living together in their youth, it may continue throughout their lives or be initiated during adulthood: everything from while they’re at college to during their senior years. It can happen when siblings are introduced or reunited (Genetic Sexual Attraction,) during a time of personal discovery or experimentation, while one siblings cares for another through an illness or after an accident, during times of grieving, after a breakup or divorce or death of a spouse/lover… anytime, really. Reality: Some siblings share this throughout their lives, some starting late in life.

Myth #4 “It is unnatural.” This myth is not supported either in human history or in other species. While it is very common for people who spent their childhoods in the same residence together, whether genetically related or not, to develop a suppression of sexual attraction to each other (this has been described as the Westermarck Effect), this does not happen to everyone, and siblings who aren’t raised together are often attracted to each other; studies reveal most people are attracted to people who look like them. Reality: In many cases, nothing is more natural.

Myth #5. “It is wrong” or “It is destructive” or “It needs to be stopped” or “They won’t be able to go on to have normal lives.” Different people are going to have different moral guidelines about sex, but sibling consanguinamory is not considered wrong by everyone or all cultures. In many cases, it is advantageous compared to having the siblings involved with others. Nor is there anything inherently destructive about it, but rather some find it constructive. The only way to stop it is to have constant, direct supervision of the siblings 24/7/365. This, however, is needless. For most, the involvement is for a season and it will pass. For others, it will last a lifetime. Either way, there’s no good reason to try to stop it. The only hindrance to having a “normal life” for siblings who continue together is the bigotry of others. Reality: For some, it is the best of all possibilities, it is wonderful and constructive, and they lead perfectly normal, even unusually good lives.

Myth #6 “Only loners, losers, freaks, or ugly people do this” or “It only happens in rural, southern (in the US), poor, uneducated families.” 
Reality: Sibling consanguinamory happens in every demographic and in every part of the US and the world. There are attractive, outgoing, popular, successful, wealthy, educated people who have been, or are still involved with a sibling.

Myth #7 “If they have children, they will be deformed” or “It causes birth defects.” Incest, if it results in a birth, does not cause birth defects in and of itself. Most children born to close relatives are healthy. You know some, whether you know it or not and whether they know their own true parentage or not. Birth defects can be the result of injury during pregnancy, substances ingested during pregnancy, environmental factors, or genetic problems. It is the last one that people tend to be thinking of, usually, when they repeat this myth. That’s because when both genetic parents carry the same genetic problem, it may be demonstrated in the children. However, this can happen with parents who aren’t closely related, too. Reality: Most children born to siblings are healthy.

Myth #8 “It always ruins sibling relationships” or “A person needs a nonsexual relationship with their sibling.” Many siblings report that consaguinamory made them much closer, even if they have ceased that part of their relationship. As far as someone needing a nonsexual relationship with a sibling… that would mean that people who are only children (having no siblings) would suffer, when the studies say otherwise. Also, if someone has more than one sibling, that usually means they’ll still have a nonsexual relationship with the other. Reality: For many siblings, consanguinamory made their relationship much better, and they relate to other people better as a result.

Myth #9 “It is illegal everywhere.” No, it isn’t. But where it is, the laws should be changed. Some people say such laws are needed to prevent societal collapse due to everyone making mutant babies with their siblings. As already explained, most children born to siblings are healthy. Even so, sibling consanguinamory and reproduction are two different things. In most places where consanguinamory is legally banned, it is entirely legal for brothers and sisters to have genetic children together through artificial insemination. It is entirely legal for someone with Huntington’s Disease to have children, even though the odds are dramatically higher than with a random pair of siblings that the children will have a debilitating disease. We can also look at places where it is legal for brothers and sisters to have sex and children together, such as Spain, Portugal, Rhode Island, and New Jersey. Has there been a crisis as a result in any of those places? (Snooki excluded.) Furthermore, the person who says anti-consanguinamory laws are needed to prevent widespread inbreeding makes it sound like everyone wants to have babies with their sibling, and the only thing holding them back is the law (perhaps there is something they want to tell us?) MOST people will not have intercourse with or marry their siblings, and even many siblings who do will not have genetic children together. Another part of this myth is that laws against consanguinamory prevent abuse. Abuse is illegal regardless of consanguinamory laws, and criminalizing consensual sex actually makes it more difficult to get victims and witnesses to cooperate in the prosecuting of abusers. Reality: Sibling consanguinamory is legal in several US states and many developed countries, but where stupid laws still apply, those unjust laws must go.

Myth #10 “Siblings don’t need the freedom to marry.” This is often augmented with “because they are already family.” But siblings who are sharing their lives as spouses often do need the same rights, benefits, and protections as any other spouses, and there’s no good reason to deny them their fundamental right to marry. Also, marriage automatically provides for next-of-kin status, which is especially important when there is some discord between one or both siblings and other siblings or their parents or grown children. For example, if brothers Adam & Steve have been living as spouses for years and Steve winds up in a coma in the hospital, their estranged, bigoted parents would likely be able to usurp Adam’s rights to make decisions. Finally, in relationships initiated through Genetic Sexual Attraction, they might not be considered family under the law, although in a loathsome double-standard, they may still be subject to discriminatory laws based on their genetic relation. Reality: An adult should be free to marry any and all consenting adults.

In Conclusion

There are siblings who are together right now, providing each other love, comfort, support, or their first sexual experience in a safe and reassuring environment. The biggest problem with sibling consanguinamory seems to be the prejudice and sex-negative attitudes of others. In most cases, trying to force consanguinamorous siblings apart only makes things worse. It can be a mutually beneficial way of bonding, expressing their love for each other, learning, and discovering their sexuality; it may even be a beautiful, lifelong romance.

Let’s not let ignorance cause needless concern or repression.

For further reading:

Common Objections Answered

What Family and Friends Should Know

Case Studies of Consanguinamorous Relationships

How Common is Consensual Incest?

Why Is Incest Illegal Anywhere?

Genetic Sexual Attraction

Consensual Incest FAQ

If You Are Considering It

myths lies misconceptions the truth about real true sibling brothers sisters brother-sister sister-sister brother-brother consanguineous sex incest lovemaking love marriage

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Posted in: brother-brother,brother-sister,consanguineous,FAQ,GSA,incest,love,myths,prejudice,siblings,sister-sister,stigma

We Get Letters

This blog is visited by people all over the planet, and welcomes comments and I also welcome your emails and private messages. Everyone once in a while I publish some of those messages in a blog entry, which is what I’m I’m doing here.

Our entry Frequently Asked Question: How Common is Incest? is consistently the most popular entry. An anonymous hater left this comment, which I didn’t publish…

My God people, you are so sick. I just need to go and vomit now.

Very rarely is a criticism of any substance left.

Helena left a comment after another FAQ response that answers why consanguineous sex is still illegal in many places.

i REALLY wish people would not use the term inbreeding , a child is born of love in a consensual consanguinious relationship and inbreeding makes me feel like the sow on a pig farm LOL

Most children born to close relatives are healthy and look like anyone else. Many of them are better-looking.

After the entry explaining why I prefer the term consanguineous, Anonymous wrote…

have to say here that the daughter born to my uncle and me is both beautiful and smart , shes funny , loves to paint and draw , read and dance and in NO way do I see her as " unable " to have a good life , shes happy and loved and a sweet kind person. So its not always a bad situation

Someone asked after this entry on how hate adds pain to GSA situations…

I got specific question for which I was unable to find an answer.

I met my half-sister, two months from now, she is fifteen, and I have never seen her before. We developed strong feeling for each other, and I was feeling wrong about it, before I found out about GSA and reverse imprinting. I do love her, but I just can't be with her, before she is 18 (meaning psychically an adult, i dont want her to become psychically unstable bacuse of teen relationships with her brother).

And my question about it is, does GSA disappear trough that time period, do I have a change to be with her in close relationship 3 years later from now? It may be rather silly question, but still it is the only one I need answer for... Thanks

This was my reply…

It is NOT a silly question. I know people who resisted their GSA attractions for a lot longer than 3 years, and still were strongly attracted to each other. When they finally got together in every sense of the word, they felt like kicking themselves for having resisted. But I do think it is wise to heed the age of consent laws.

It is possible that if you spend time together regularly without sexual affection and have sex lives with other people, that your feelings for each other will transition to minimize sexual attraction, but I can't guarantee that.

The bottom line is that it is a good idea to hold off for now.

BrotherHobo left a comment after this interview…

I am envious of sibling couples like Liz and Ryan who have successfully managed to create a life together. Far too many other brother/sister couples have been driven apart, either by the fear of being caught and punished, or just the likelihood of condemnation of friends and family. Even more still live a double life, perhaps even are married to others, and meet secretly for a few hours together. Gays and lesbians lived like this in the past, and are slowly gaining acceptance. Oddly enough, though, although they see their own sexual lives as "normal," the LGBT community often denigrate incestuous couples as "sick" and "perverted." I find that to be more than just a little ironic. It is rare to encounter a practicing incestuous couple with enough courage to come out. Mostly, they are living secret lives, either masquerading as a non-sanguineous married couple, or living the lie of dating outside their real relationship and pretending to the outside world to simply be brother and sister who are very close.

The fear of discovery and condemnation is so great that sibling couples who actually figured out ways to "date" one another in high school, who attended high-school proms and football games and church together as teenagers are often driven apart by other family members' suspicious questions, or even being caught together in compromising circumstances. That fear, while probably once based around parents or other siblings finding out about their relationship, morphs into fear of one's spouse, or one's children finding out, and over time the love takes a beating and begins to flicker. Some even declare the relationship to be "just a phase" or "just an ill-advised affair." Some separate deliberately, in the hopes of extinguishing that love. But it doesn't die easily, and can last a lifetime, even while separated by years and hundreds of miles.

Anonymous wrote after Successful GSA Relationships…

im currently struggling in GSA.. my nephew and i are in the same age. we grew up separately because my brother and his mom were separated.. since we were a kid, i knew i was attracted to him.. im happy when he is around but i dont talked to him much because im afraid he might notice that im attracted to him.. we were in highscool when he had his summer with us.. we were both grown ups, and there goes my feelings again.. i thought i would just ignore him again.. but he seems so interested talking to me.. he even got my number and we talked to each other as much as possible.. it was then when he admitted that he loves me and so i also admitted to him that i feel the same.. but im so afraid that my family might know about us so i stop talking to him which makes him sad and avoided me eventually. i decided to share it with my sister to seek advice.. but she didnt understands me and worst she told everyone in the family about that.. i was merely moved on.. i had a family of my own and have a child at my young age, but we separated in just few months and raise my child alone. i thought i would never ever fall for anyone again.. until he came back, my nephew.. my heart was filled with happiness when i saw him again.. he stayed for three weeks for vacation and we were un separable, we got every chances we had to show how much we mean to each other.. we were like a couple.. my family warned me so we did it discreetly.. and when he was about to leave he told me that he is living with a girl and it almost breaks me.. all our sweet memories were replaced by sadness.. and he felt bad about that.. but he wants me to go with him and he will leave his girl.. but i cant, i cant leave my one year old son.. and im afraid.. we might lose our family, and there is no turning back if we will do that.. but i cant bear the thought of him sleeping with a girl.. please help me i need advice, how can i make this relationship successful..

It is much easier for me to share advice when someone contacts me via email or private message, so we can have a dialogue.

Anonymous wrote after our most popular posting…

Consensual incest between siblings who were raised together as such is almost always a more dominant sibling coercing a passive one into sexual situations. I don't care how you try to rationalize it. It's wrong and it will mess the passive one up. The only time I've seen otherwise is when both siblings are being abused and/or molested and they bond together through the abuse and sometimes become sexually involved with each other. That doesn't turn out well either.

How does Anonymous “know” this? Perhaps based on people who have complained to therapists or law enforcement? But of course, most of the people who have neutral or positive experiences with consanguineous sex or consanguinamory (and there have been many) would never tell any sociologist or law enforcement.

Anonymous left a comment after An Aunt and Nephew Ponder Coming Out…

my soul mate is also related to me in a similar way. one of his parents is my half sibling but we didnt grow up together, we fell in love as adults. we were in relationships where we were not happy so we left them and now we are the happiest we've ever been. though we do not tell our families, they can only speculate... there is no way to tell people, they would never understand. but we

Anonymous wrote after Rights Aren’t Reserved For the Majority…

Lol as always when I feel in need of a some sanity I find right here on your website . As someone who is happy in a consanguinamorous relationship but who was forced to do therapy by my family I know that I personally just shut down and refused to talk about how I felt , all I wanted to do was get out that room and back into my uncles arms . Its like he says " the one person who has to be ok with who you are is you because at the end of the day there is no getting away from your self ." I am happy now we live as we want and can be open loving and real with each other .

Finally, I wanted to offer a “confidential” to Anynomous, who left a comment that I didn’t publish…

The people I interview choose what, if any, name to go by when I print their interviews. If they request it, I will include their contact information. If they use their real name or a name they’ve used elsewhere, or are completely anonymous, that is up to them. I did have one person provide an email address and nickname that this person soon requested I remove, and I did. Someone else provided an email address that has remained. I will never intentionally “out” someone without their consent, with the possible exception of someone who has publicly sought to deny relationship rights to other adults. If someone is taking a public stance against full marriage equality or relationship rights for any adults and is secretly in the closet themselves, they should be exposed.

Read more »

Posted in: aunt-nephew,boundaries,brother-sister,children,consanguineous,family reaction,GSA,lack of equality harms,love,prejudice,reunion,siblings

We Get Letters

This blog is visited by people all over the planet, and welcomes comments and I also welcome your emails and private messages. Everyone once in a while I publish some of those messages in a blog entry, which is what I’m I’m doing here.

Our entry Frequently Asked Question: How Common is Incest? is consistently the most popular entry. An anonymous hater left this comment, which I didn’t publish…

My God people, you are so sick. I just need to go and vomit now.

Very rarely is a criticism of any substance left.

Helena left a comment after another FAQ response that answers why consanguineous sex is still illegal in many places.

i REALLY wish people would not use the term inbreeding , a child is born of love in a consensual consanguinious relationship and inbreeding makes me feel like the sow on a pig farm LOL

Most children born to close relatives are healthy and look like anyone else. Many of them are better-looking.

After the entry explaining why I prefer the term consanguineous, Anonymous wrote…

have to say here that the daughter born to my uncle and me is both beautiful and smart , shes funny , loves to paint and draw , read and dance and in NO way do I see her as " unable " to have a good life , shes happy and loved and a sweet kind person. So its not always a bad situation

Someone asked after this entry on how hate adds pain to GSA situations…

I got specific question for which I was unable to find an answer.

I met my half-sister, two months from now, she is fifteen, and I have never seen her before. We developed strong feeling for each other, and I was feeling wrong about it, before I found out about GSA and reverse imprinting. I do love her, but I just can't be with her, before she is 18 (meaning psychically an adult, i dont want her to become psychically unstable bacuse of teen relationships with her brother).

And my question about it is, does GSA disappear trough that time period, do I have a change to be with her in close relationship 3 years later from now? It may be rather silly question, but still it is the only one I need answer for... Thanks

This was my reply…

It is NOT a silly question. I know people who resisted their GSA attractions for a lot longer than 3 years, and still were strongly attracted to each other. When they finally got together in every sense of the word, they felt like kicking themselves for having resisted. But I do think it is wise to heed the age of consent laws.

It is possible that if you spend time together regularly without sexual affection and have sex lives with other people, that your feelings for each other will transition to minimize sexual attraction, but I can't guarantee that.

The bottom line is that it is a good idea to hold off for now.

BrotherHobo left a comment after this interview…

I am envious of sibling couples like Liz and Ryan who have successfully managed to create a life together. Far too many other brother/sister couples have been driven apart, either by the fear of being caught and punished, or just the likelihood of condemnation of friends and family. Even more still live a double life, perhaps even are married to others, and meet secretly for a few hours together. Gays and lesbians lived like this in the past, and are slowly gaining acceptance. Oddly enough, though, although they see their own sexual lives as "normal," the LGBT community often denigrate incestuous couples as "sick" and "perverted." I find that to be more than just a little ironic. It is rare to encounter a practicing incestuous couple with enough courage to come out. Mostly, they are living secret lives, either masquerading as a non-sanguineous married couple, or living the lie of dating outside their real relationship and pretending to the outside world to simply be brother and sister who are very close.

The fear of discovery and condemnation is so great that sibling couples who actually figured out ways to "date" one another in high school, who attended high-school proms and football games and church together as teenagers are often driven apart by other family members' suspicious questions, or even being caught together in compromising circumstances. That fear, while probably once based around parents or other siblings finding out about their relationship, morphs into fear of one's spouse, or one's children finding out, and over time the love takes a beating and begins to flicker. Some even declare the relationship to be "just a phase" or "just an ill-advised affair." Some separate deliberately, in the hopes of extinguishing that love. But it doesn't die easily, and can last a lifetime, even while separated by years and hundreds of miles.

Anonymous wrote after Successful GSA Relationships…

im currently struggling in GSA.. my nephew and i are in the same age. we grew up separately because my brother and his mom were separated.. since we were a kid, i knew i was attracted to him.. im happy when he is around but i dont talked to him much because im afraid he might notice that im attracted to him.. we were in highscool when he had his summer with us.. we were both grown ups, and there goes my feelings again.. i thought i would just ignore him again.. but he seems so interested talking to me.. he even got my number and we talked to each other as much as possible.. it was then when he admitted that he loves me and so i also admitted to him that i feel the same.. but im so afraid that my family might know about us so i stop talking to him which makes him sad and avoided me eventually. i decided to share it with my sister to seek advice.. but she didnt understands me and worst she told everyone in the family about that.. i was merely moved on.. i had a family of my own and have a child at my young age, but we separated in just few months and raise my child alone. i thought i would never ever fall for anyone again.. until he came back, my nephew.. my heart was filled with happiness when i saw him again.. he stayed for three weeks for vacation and we were un separable, we got every chances we had to show how much we mean to each other.. we were like a couple.. my family warned me so we did it discreetly.. and when he was about to leave he told me that he is living with a girl and it almost breaks me.. all our sweet memories were replaced by sadness.. and he felt bad about that.. but he wants me to go with him and he will leave his girl.. but i cant, i cant leave my one year old son.. and im afraid.. we might lose our family, and there is no turning back if we will do that.. but i cant bear the thought of him sleeping with a girl.. please help me i need advice, how can i make this relationship successful..

It is much easier for me to share advice when someone contacts me via email or private message, so we can have a dialogue.

Anonymous wrote after our most popular posting…

Consensual incest between siblings who were raised together as such is almost always a more dominant sibling coercing a passive one into sexual situations. I don't care how you try to rationalize it. It's wrong and it will mess the passive one up. The only time I've seen otherwise is when both siblings are being abused and/or molested and they bond together through the abuse and sometimes become sexually involved with each other. That doesn't turn out well either.

How does Anonymous “know” this? Perhaps based on people who have complained to therapists or law enforcement? But of course, most of the people who have neutral or positive experiences with consanguineous sex or consanguinamory (and there have been many) would never tell any sociologist or law enforcement.

Anonymous left a comment after An Aunt and Nephew Ponder Coming Out…

my soul mate is also related to me in a similar way. one of his parents is my half sibling but we didnt grow up together, we fell in love as adults. we were in relationships where we were not happy so we left them and now we are the happiest we've ever been. though we do not tell our families, they can only speculate... there is no way to tell people, they would never understand. but we

Anonymous wrote after Rights Aren’t Reserved For the Majority…

Lol as always when I feel in need of a some sanity I find right here on your website . As someone who is happy in a consanguinamorous relationship but who was forced to do therapy by my family I know that I personally just shut down and refused to talk about how I felt , all I wanted to do was get out that room and back into my uncles arms . Its like he says " the one person who has to be ok with who you are is you because at the end of the day there is no getting away from your self ." I am happy now we live as we want and can be open loving and real with each other .

Finally, I wanted to offer a “confidential” to Anynomous, who left a comment that I didn’t publish…

The people I interview choose what, if any, name to go by when I print their interviews. If they request it, I will include their contact information. If they use their real name or a name they’ve used elsewhere, or are completely anonymous, that is up to them. I did have one person provide an email address and nickname that this person soon requested I remove, and I did. Someone else provided an email address that has remained. I will never intentionally “out” someone without their consent, with the possible exception of someone who has publicly sought to deny relationship rights to other adults. If someone is taking a public stance against full marriage equality or relationship rights for any adults and is secretly in the closet themselves, they should be exposed.

Read more »

Posted in: aunt-nephew,boundaries,brother-sister,children,consanguineous,family reaction,GSA,lack of equality harms,love,prejudice,reunion,siblings

Scotland Still Prosecuting Consenting Adults For Loving Each Other

From this report at stv.tv, it appears as though Scotland is still prosecuting adults for consensual sex. What century is this again?

 

A man is to stand trial accused of having sex with his half-sister.

Doesn't that sound ridiculous? What a waste of resources. Every bit of money and time put into prosecuting this case could have been spent prosecuting abusers.

John Bowes is alleged to have committed an act of incest by sleeping with half-sister Sheila Drummond Bowes at a property in Dundee's Douglas area in summer 2011.

I don't think sleeping is the issue here.

Bowes is alleged to have "had sexual intercourse with a person related to him" between July 26, 2011 and August 4, 2011 at a flat in the city's Ballater Place.

The 48-year-old, of Balunie Crescent, Dundee, denies a charge of incest at the city's sheriff court. A trial date has been set for February and Bowes was released on bail until then.

He's 48. Her age isn't given, but it is likely that she is well into adulthood as well. Why is this a crime? It shouldn't be. And if this was consensual sex, is she being charged, too?  If this wasn't consensual, the report is written very poorly and the charges should be rape. If this was consensual, it shouldn't be a criminal matter at all. They should be free to have sex with each other and marry each other, if that is what they want.

Too many questions aren't answered. I do wonder who reported this to the authorities, whether or not they grew up together, and whether or not this is a likely case of Genetic Sexual Attraction.

Don't let this happen to you, lovers. Take steps to protect yourself.

Read more »

Posted in: brother-sister,consanguineous,courts,GSA,incest,lack of equality harms,law,prosecution,siblings,UK

Scotland Still Prosecuting Consenting Adults For Loving Each Other

From this report at stv.tv, it appears as though Scotland is still prosecuting adults for consensual sex. What century is this again?

 

A man is to stand trial accused of having sex with his half-sister.

Doesn't that sound ridiculous? What a waste of resources. Every bit of money and time put into prosecuting this case could have been spent prosecuting abusers.

John Bowes is alleged to have committed an act of incest by sleeping with half-sister Sheila Drummond Bowes at a property in Dundee's Douglas area in summer 2011.

I don't think sleeping is the issue here.

Bowes is alleged to have "had sexual intercourse with a person related to him" between July 26, 2011 and August 4, 2011 at a flat in the city's Ballater Place.

The 48-year-old, of Balunie Crescent, Dundee, denies a charge of incest at the city's sheriff court. A trial date has been set for February and Bowes was released on bail until then.

He's 48. Her age isn't given, but it is likely that she is well into adulthood as well. Why is this a crime? It shouldn't be. And if this was consensual sex, is she being charged, too?  If this wasn't consensual, the report is written very poorly and the charges should be rape. If this was consensual, it shouldn't be a criminal matter at all. They should be free to have sex with each other and marry each other, if that is what they want.

Too many questions aren't answered. I do wonder who reported this to the authorities, whether or not they grew up together, and whether or not this is a likely case of Genetic Sexual Attraction.

Don't let this happen to you, lovers. Take steps to protect yourself.

Read more »

Posted in: brother-sister,consanguineous,courts,GSA,incest,lack of equality harms,law,prosecution,siblings,UK

Dancing Around an Elephant?

Advice columnists, I'm sure, get many more inquiries dealing with Gender, Sexuality, and Relationship Diversities (GSRD) than get selected for print, some more direct than others. Here's one that made it. TAKES ONLY TWO TO TANGO wrote to Dear Abby...

I have been dating my boyfriend, "Jose," for a year. Before that, we were friends for five years.

That means she has had a lot of time to get to know him and his behavior.

Ever since I've known him, he and his half-sister, "Blanca," have danced together at parties. We're all in our mid-20s.

They dance salsa, merengue and other styles of music together. I used to think it was cute, but now that Jose and I are a couple, I find it annoying and a little creepy.

So he's doing what he's always done as long as she's know him, but she thinks dancing, or at least least some kinds of dancing, should be restricted to just the two of them now that they are a couple. Unless that was the specific, explicit, mutual agreement they made, there is no reason for him to stop doing what he's always done. She is free to ask him to stop. He is free to say no or to agree. She is free to stop seeing him.

She gets mad when he dances with me instead of her during her favorite songs. I told Jose he can dance only with me at the parties or only with her. Not both. I don't want to share him, and honestly, people joke that it's incestuous.

Assuming the letter-writer's description of the Blanca's reaction is accurate, I combine that with the fact that Jose and Blanca are half-siblings, and I wonder if they were raised together or not. If they weren't, one or both of them could be experiencing Genetic Sexual Attraction. Even if they were raised together, something could have happened or could still be happening. Perhaps the letter-writer is picking up on something? Or... this could just be nothing more than siblings sharing dances and the letter-writer has an extra dose of jealousy in her.

How can I make him understand how much this bothers me? What can I say to his half-sister when she gives me the evil eye? My relationship with her is friendly, but it was better before I started dating her half-brother.

I don't know how couldn't already know that it bothers letter-writer. It doesn't sound like she's hidden her displeasure.

Dear Abby...

If you want to hang onto Jose, simmer down and be less heavy-handed. Dictating who he can dance with only makes you appear to be jealous, insecure and controlling.

Adults should generally be free to dance together, regardless of relation, or have any other kind of consensual physical contact. It is up to each individual to establish and negotiate agreements and boundaries. If an agreement is made that limits dancing, so be it. But that has to be by consent. It does not bode well for the letter-writer's relationship with Jose that there is this problem with Blanca, regardless of what is or is not going on between Jose and Blanca.

There may be an elephant in the room. The letter-writer may benefit from reading Has Your Partner Experienced Consanguinamory?

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Posted in: brother-sister,consanguineous,GSA,prejudice,siblings,stigma

Dancing Around an Elephant?

Advice columnists, I'm sure, get many more inquiries dealing with Gender, Sexuality, and Relationship Diversities (GSRD) than get selected for print, some more direct than others. Here's one that made it. TAKES ONLY TWO TO TANGO wrote to Dear Abby...

I have been dating my boyfriend, "Jose," for a year. Before that, we were friends for five years.

That means she has had a lot of time to get to know him and his behavior.

Ever since I've known him, he and his half-sister, "Blanca," have danced together at parties. We're all in our mid-20s.

They dance salsa, merengue and other styles of music together. I used to think it was cute, but now that Jose and I are a couple, I find it annoying and a little creepy.

So he's doing what he's always done as long as she's know him, but she thinks dancing, or at least least some kinds of dancing, should be restricted to just the two of them now that they are a couple. Unless that was the specific, explicit, mutual agreement they made, there is no reason for him to stop doing what he's always done. She is free to ask him to stop. He is free to say no or to agree. She is free to stop seeing him.

She gets mad when he dances with me instead of her during her favorite songs. I told Jose he can dance only with me at the parties or only with her. Not both. I don't want to share him, and honestly, people joke that it's incestuous.

Assuming the letter-writer's description of the Blanca's reaction is accurate, I combine that with the fact that Jose and Blanca are half-siblings, and I wonder if they were raised together or not. If they weren't, one or both of them could be experiencing Genetic Sexual Attraction. Even if they were raised together, something could have happened or could still be happening. Perhaps the letter-writer is picking up on something? Or... this could just be nothing more than siblings sharing dances and the letter-writer has an extra dose of jealousy in her.

How can I make him understand how much this bothers me? What can I say to his half-sister when she gives me the evil eye? My relationship with her is friendly, but it was better before I started dating her half-brother.

I don't know how couldn't already know that it bothers letter-writer. It doesn't sound like she's hidden her displeasure.

Dear Abby...

If you want to hang onto Jose, simmer down and be less heavy-handed. Dictating who he can dance with only makes you appear to be jealous, insecure and controlling.

Adults should generally be free to dance together, regardless of relation, or have any other kind of consensual physical contact. It is up to each individual to establish and negotiate agreements and boundaries. If an agreement is made that limits dancing, so be it. But that has to be by consent. It does not bode well for the letter-writer's relationship with Jose that there is this problem with Blanca, regardless of what is or is not going on between Jose and Blanca.

There may be an elephant in the room. The letter-writer may benefit from reading Has Your Partner Experienced Consanguinamory?

Read more »

Posted in: brother-sister,consanguineous,GSA,prejudice,siblings,stigma

District Judge Sees the Devil's Harvest

In 1936, marijuana was vilified as the harvest of the Devil; the gateway drug to the hard stuff.  Reefer Madness was a propaganda campaign that swept the country in the years following prohibition.

Fast forward to the post-modern era of the second decade in the 21st Century, and we see marijuana legalized in a growing number of states, at least for its, er, medical use; the Justice Department ignores significant manufacturing and distribution operations, as directed by the U.S. Attorney General; and the SCOTUS is considering whether to hear a case this term to remove marijuana from Schedule 1 of the Controlled Substance Act.

While the Michigan Medical Marijuana Act has attracted much attention in the courts and the media all over Michigan, it has had a disturbingly polarizing effect on Dearborn District Judge Mark W. Somers.  The Dearborn judge has petulantly declared the MMA unconstitutional, and has referred to marijuana as: "Devil's weed", "Satan's surge", and "Satan's weed".

Judge Somers has lectured defendants wrongly convicted in his courtroom on the topic of Mexican drug-cartel-related child deaths and how the medical marijuana industry is directly related to this scourge.  In an infamous case, People -v- Brandon, Judge Somers ruled that, "the MMA is rendered unconstitutional in its entirety by operation of the Supremacy Clause of the United States Constitution."

Now he has been disqualified by the Michigan Court of Appeals from deciding any more cases involving the MMA on the basis that he has pre-judged individuals accused of marijuana possession and distribution, despite the availability of valid defenses.

We here at the Law Blogger find it disturbing indeed when a judge takes matters into his own hands, and substitutes his own world view for the law.  In disqualifying Judge Somers, we applaud the Court of Appeals that ruled the probability of actual prejudice at the hands of this rogue judge was too high to pass constitutional muster.

Perhaps it is time for the Judicial Tenure Commission to take a serious look at whether Mark Somers is fit and qualified to be a judge.

www.clarkstonlegal.com
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Posted in: Controlled Substance Act,Judge Mark Somers,medical marijuana,Michigan Medical Marijuana Act

Married Couple Confirm They are Half Siblings

Another case of possible Genetic Sexual Attraction has made news. From chinasmack.com...

In Jiangxi Province, a young married couple were always teased for “looking like each other”. Not long ago, the wife’s father suddenly spoke of a secret: it turns out that many years ago, he and the husband’s mother were secret lovers. Later on, the husband’s mother became pregnant, while the wife’s father fell in love and married someone else. On top of that, the husband’s mother has been dead for over 20 years, so this secret was almost buried forever, up until this young married couple decided to have a child.

Affairs, flings, one-night-stands, divorce/death and subsequent remarriage, etc. have always been a reality in making half-siblings. But now, with sperm, egg, and embryo donations, this is going to be happening more.

In early November, the couple chose to go to the Furong Forensic Centre of the No. 2 Provincial People’s Hospital in Hunan in order to do a DNA test. The results dealt them a heavy blow.

If someone is happy with their partner, they shouldn't let prejudice tear them apart. It is one thing to understand that, another to live it out.

Cao Wei and Xiao Qian (aliases) both grew up in the same city in Jiangxi Province. They lived near each other and had known each other since they were youngsters. Cao Wei is 4 years older than Xiao Qian and always looked after her the way a big brother would. Their relationship gradually began to change ever so subtlety, eventually becoming a romantic relationship.

If they were in each other's life from an early age, then some people would say this doesn't meet the "classic" definition of Genetic Sexual Attraction. However, it could still be an attraction that was based, in part, on shared genes.

On November 20th, legal medical expert and head of the material evidence examination room at the Forensic Centre, Dr Huang Jian, said it was currently unknown how Cao Wei and Xiao Qian would deal with their marriage. She believes that Bao Gen’s irresponsibility not only thoroughly discredits him, but has also deeply hurt his children.

It would hurt a lot less if we supported the right of consenting adults to be together. Did the DNA test reveal any serious genetic risks?

Some of the comments left after the article expressed doubt that this is a real story, but there are people going through this sort of thing all over the world.

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Posted in: Asia,brother-sister,China,consanguineous,family reaction,GSA,love,science,siblings

Married Couple Confirm They are Half Siblings

Another case of possible Genetic Sexual Attraction has made news. From chinasmack.com...

In Jiangxi Province, a young married couple were always teased for “looking like each other”. Not long ago, the wife’s father suddenly spoke of a secret: it turns out that many years ago, he and the husband’s mother were secret lovers. Later on, the husband’s mother became pregnant, while the wife’s father fell in love and married someone else. On top of that, the husband’s mother has been dead for over 20 years, so this secret was almost buried forever, up until this young married couple decided to have a child.

Affairs, flings, one-night-stands, divorce/death and subsequent remarriage, etc. have always been a reality in making half-siblings. But now, with sperm, egg, and embryo donations, this is going to be happening more.

In early November, the couple chose to go to the Furong Forensic Centre of the No. 2 Provincial People’s Hospital in Hunan in order to do a DNA test. The results dealt them a heavy blow.

If someone is happy with their partner, they shouldn't let prejudice tear them apart. It is one thing to understand that, another to live it out.

Cao Wei and Xiao Qian (aliases) both grew up in the same city in Jiangxi Province. They lived near each other and had known each other since they were youngsters. Cao Wei is 4 years older than Xiao Qian and always looked after her the way a big brother would. Their relationship gradually began to change ever so subtlety, eventually becoming a romantic relationship.

If they were in each other's life from an early age, then some people would say this doesn't meet the "classic" definition of Genetic Sexual Attraction. However, it could still be an attraction that was based, in part, on shared genes.

On November 20th, legal medical expert and head of the material evidence examination room at the Forensic Centre, Dr Huang Jian, said it was currently unknown how Cao Wei and Xiao Qian would deal with their marriage. She believes that Bao Gen’s irresponsibility not only thoroughly discredits him, but has also deeply hurt his children.

It would hurt a lot less if we supported the right of consenting adults to be together. Did the DNA test reveal any serious genetic risks?

Some of the comments left after the article expressed doubt that this is a real story, but there are people going through this sort of thing all over the world.

Read more »

Posted in: Asia,brother-sister,China,consanguineous,family reaction,GSA,love,science,siblings

Illinois Becomes 16th State to Legalize Same-Sex Marriage

Springfield, Illinois, the Land of Lincoln, was the site of the execution of a law making Illinois the 16th state in our Union to legalize gay marriage.  Last week, Democratic Governor Pat Quinn, writing on a desk said to be used by President Abraham Lincoln, used 100 pens to ink the law into full force and effect.

The law, officially known as the Religious Freedom and Marriage Fairness Act, takes effect June 1, 2014.  Illinois recognized "civil unions" prior to the crucial votes putting the bill over the top by state legislators earlier this month.

34 states still prohibit same-sex marriage under the law.  The practice is far from universally accepted, despite the momentum that the civil rights has garnered over the past 24-months, especially in the wake of the SCOTUS's seminal United States v Windsor decision.  The local Catholic Bishop near Springfield, IL lamented the execution of the new law with a feigned exorcism.  Really?

It will not be too long before the movement picks-up a few more states by judicial decree thanks to the Windsor decision.  Some state legislatures, on the other hand, are not planning to stray from the traditional view of marriage any time soon.

Politics and politicians being fickle, we suggest you stay tuned for further developments.

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Posted in: Abraham Lincoln,civil union,Governor Pat Quinn,same-sex marriage,SCOTUS,United States v Windsor

Taking the Steps

I have frequently seen the question asked, “It is incest to date my stepbrother?” or “Would marrying my stepsister be incestuous?”

Romance, dating, sex, or marriage between step relations is not literally consanguinamory, but is often subject to the same prejudices, which in some places and cases includes criminalization, as consanguinamorous relationships. With Discredited Argument #18 not a factor, the excuse to try to deny others their relationships is usually Discredited Arguments #1, 3, 19, or 21.

Although someone may try to control our relationships, we can’t effectively control what other people do with their love lives and we shouldn’t try. We don’t pick who our family members love or marry. As such, sometimes someone is brought into our lives as a step relation, such as a stepbrother, stepsister, stepmother, or stepfather whether we like it or not.

Sometimes, we like it. A lot.



Perhaps the most common connection between step relationships is when adults marry and their adolescent or young adult children, who are made stepsiblings, find they are mutually attracted. The Westermarck Effect, which describes the suppression of sexual attraction between people raised together in the same home or close quarters, isn’t experienced by everyone but doesn’t have even a chance to be experienced if young people don’t meet or don’t spend much time together until their pre-teen years or later, as often happens in these cases.

Each of us is our parent’s child. If the person we share genes with and raised us is attracted to someone, is it really surprising that we’d be attracted to that someone’s child? This is especially the case if new stepsiblings spend time under the same roof, perhaps on a full-time basis.

There is no good reason why the relationship of persons A and B should prevent the relationship of persons C and D.

But what about when one person ends up having two lovers from the same family? That can happen if there is a relationship between a stepparent and a stepchild, including cases in which the stepparent never knew the stepchild as a minor. (As always, I’m talking about consenting adults in this entry, or minors close in age to each other.) Perhaps things didn’t work out between the stepparent and the parent, or the parent died, or there’s a polyamorous situation, meaning the parent is still involved. Sometimes, someone’s stepparent is actually from their generation or at least closer in age to them than their parent, due to their parent having entered into an intergenerational relationship. The important thing to remember is that we are talking about consenting adults in these cases. One person’s prejudice against intergenerational relationships or against someone having more than one lover from the same family should not have any control over such consensual relationships.

Relationships like these have existed throughout history. There are also other relationships that have meant someone has (or has had) more than one lover from the same family. Traditional polyandry usually involves brothers marrying the same woman, and many polygynous males marry sisters. Having both mother and daughter or father and son as lovers is a common fantasy, and does happen. (I have had my own experience.)

Someone considering a relationship with a stepsibling, stepparent, or adult stepchild should make many of the same considerations as I have encouraged people to make when it comes to consanguinamorous relationships, and, if applicable, what I wrote about intergenerational relationships.

Parents may not like it when their stepchild gets together with their child, but the parent should remember that it wasn’t the children that created the environment in which they found themselves. Isn’t it better they get along rather than fight? Anyone upset about step relations getting together should read this.

Family strife is one thing. Law is another. There is no good reason to have laws discriminating against adults for their consensual relationships.

Are you, or have you been, involved with a step relation, or someone who later became one? Tell us about it by commenting.

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Posted in: boundaries,family reaction,FAQ,incest,love,prejudice

Step-Parent Adoption Goes to the Michigan Supreme Court

By: Timothy P. Flynn

Sometimes, in the post-judgment phase of a divorcee's life, things can go haywire.  The divorce process can push good parents "off-the-grid".

There is a statute in Michigan that provides for the termination of a divorcee's parental rights if that parent neglects to pay child support and fails to communicate with the children for two years.  For this to occur, the other parent must re-marry and the new spouse must petition for the termination of parental rights as part of a step-parent adoption proceeding.

In a case just recently accepted for briefing and argument by the Michigan Supreme Court, the concept of legal custody within the context of the step-parent adoption statute will be decided.  It could come down to the High Court's interpretation of how the legislature used the words, "a" and "the".

The Kent County case, In Re: ARJ, takes a look at whether the re-married parent must have sole legal custody in order for the step-parent adoption petition to be granted.  The case is significant to the extent that it will interpret this important statute as well as possibly provide additional meaning to the phrase "legal custody"; a phrase over which many a battle have been fought in the family courts throughout Michigan over the decades.

The Kent County Family Court terminated the father's rights after a two day trial.  This termination was reversed by the Michigan Court of Appeals which basically held that the parental termination was done in error because both parents had joint legal custody.

So here we have a parent that has basically disappeared for the requisite two years  -no support, no contact-  but who clings to his parental rights through the label in the judgment of divorce awarding him joint legal custody.

In its order granting leave to appeal the Court of Appeals' decision, the Supreme Court specifically identified one of the issues to be briefed, argued and decided as:

Whether the phrase 'legal custody' in [the step-parent adoption statute] is synonymous with the concept of joint custody in the Child Custody Act, whereby 'the parents share decision-making authority as to the important decisions affecting the welfare of the child...

Our High Court also expressly invited the State Bar of Michigan's Family Law Section and the Michigan Chapter of the American Academy of Matrimonial Lawyers to file amicus curiae briefs in the case.

Stay tuned to see how the Michigan Supreme Court interprets this crucial phrase; we will track the case for you.  The decision will likely have important implications for divorce proceedings that involve the custody of minor children.

www.clarkstonlegal.com
info@clarkstonlegal.com

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Posted in: child custody,family court,family law,Michigan Court of Appeals,Michigan Supreme Court,step-parent adoption

Is Being Poly Genetic?

The Ferrett addresses, “Polyamory Genetic? Is Homosexuality Genetic?”

My thoughts on a genetic polyamory link are the exact same as my thoughts on a genetic homosexual link:

I don’t care.

Right! We have many things, including the technology I’m using to write this and you are using to read this, which are not part of our genetics. What difference does it make? See Discredited Argument #5.

Even if the gays were, as some suggest, all conspiring in one big plot to annoy us fine-thinking straight people, wincing as they sucked distasteful d--- and reluctantly chowed p---y out of some misplaced form of rebellion, it should still be allowed.

The truth is, gay sex is between consenting adults, and it hurts no one but those adults – there are way more deadly car accidents caused by beers than queers. You may consider gayness to be a bad choice, but two people should be free to make bad choices together. And what people want to do for fun in their private life is something that should be allowed, no matter how distasteful it may be to me.

Agreed. See Discredited Argument #1.

We often get caught up in the “nature vs. nurture” aspect of gay and transgender issues, forgetting that this is playing to the conservative bent. What’s important is that people all over the world should have the freedom to live their lives as they see fit assuming they’re not actively harming anyone, and as such Teh Gay Should Be Okay.

So is gay genetically disposed? I say probably, but it doesn’t make a damn bit of difference.

Getting to polyamory…

I’m sure there are tendencies genetically towards certain aspects that encourage polyamory, but polyamory is such a complex term, encompassing so many styles of relationships, that I don’t think a single set of genes could really cover it.

I think we have enough evidence that some people are not monogamous; it goes against their nature, whether being polyamorous can be found in their genes or not.

But it’s irrelevant. I’ve heard it said that after gay marriage gets settled, they’ll be coming after the polyamorous relationships next.

We can only hope. Actually, I’d like to see it all settled at the same time; full marriage equality.

Miranda commented…

For people questioning their identity, I can see how it would be helpful to know that this is what is natural for you. But do we have to use it to justify ourselves with the opposition? I’d rather not anyway.

Yes. It doesn’t matter if someone is turned off by something, or thinks it is harmful to the lovers. An adult should not need to get permission from some politician to be who she or he is and love the person(s) she or he does in the ways to which they mutually consent. An adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race, or religion, should be free to share love, sex, residence, and marriage with any and all consenting adults, without prosecution, persecution, and discrimination.



Is polyamory natural Is polyamory genetic Is being polyamorous natural Is being polyamorous genetic Is polygamy natural

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Posted in: allies,FAQ,freedom to marry,LGBT,polyamory,science,stigma

News Media Request For GSA Experienced

Bumping this up again, because I was contacted by them and the deadline was dropped AND they expanded the scope from siblings to anyone with GSA experience. If you still want to contact them, go ahead.

For your consideration, if you have experienced Genetic Sexual Attraction...

CBS News Productions, a department of CBS NEWS, is considering producing a documentary about GSA for cable television.  We are looking for people currently in a GSA relationship or those who have been in a past relationship to tell their stories on camera.  If interviewees prefer that their voice and appearance be disguised, we can adhere to that request.  No monetary compensation will be offered for one’s participation because this is against the policies of CBS News.  If interested, please email...

[Edited because they project is not being pursued.]

As always, I want to see journalists raising awareness of things like GSA, but I also urge caution in dealing with the media.

If you don’t want to contact them, but still want to talk about what you’re going through or what you’ve been through, good or bad, you can contact me. And if you’d like, I can interview you like I’ve interviewed so many others.

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Posted in: coming out,consanguineous,GSA,media

News Media Request For GSA Experienced

Bumping this up again, because I was contacted by them and the deadline was dropped AND they expanded the scope from siblings to anyone with GSA experience. If you still want to contact them, go ahead.

For your consideration, if you have experienced Genetic Sexual Attraction...

CBS News Productions, a department of CBS NEWS, is considering producing a documentary about GSA for cable television.  We are looking for people currently in a GSA relationship or those who have been in a past relationship to tell their stories on camera.  If interviewees prefer that their voice and appearance be disguised, we can adhere to that request.  No monetary compensation will be offered for one’s participation because this is against the policies of CBS News.  If interested, please email  jwk@cbsnews.com.  Janis is the producer involved.   Our deadline for responses is within the next three months.

As always, I want to see journalists raising awareness of things like GSA, but I also urge caution in dealing with the media.

If you don’t want to contact them, but still want to talk about what you’re going through or what you’ve been through, good or bad, you can contact me. And if you’d like, I can interview you like I’ve interviewed so many others.

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Posted in: coming out,consanguineous,GSA,media

Why? Many of the Same Reasons Anyone Else Does It

Vicky Wireko wrote at myjoyonline.com under "Reality Zone: Why would a father sleep with his biological daughter?"

Without yet getting to the text of the piece, the terms need to be defined. By "sleep," she no doubt means intercourse. But is she referring to rape or is she referring to consensual sex?  Rape and lovemaking are two different things. Rape should always be illegal. Lovemaking should never be illegal. But "biological daughter" can mean a woman the father didn't meet or didn't have a relationship with until she was an adult, or at least hasn't had a relationship with since an early age. Consanguinamory initiated through Genetic Sexual Attraction has a different dynamic than consanguinamory growing from an existing sociological relationship.

Why would a father make love with his biological daughter? I'm talking about CONSENT ADULTS here.

For many of the the same reasons a man would have sex with any woman:

He's a heterosexual male and she's a receptive or initiating female he finds attractive.

They love each other.

It feels good and is fun. This is especially true when it comes to consanguinamory.

To bond.

To express love.

To have children.

Some of them have been brought together through Genetic Sexual Attraction, some of them haven't.

There are many reasons, but they shouldn't need to justify it to anyone else. Why is ultimately theirs to share, not anyone else's business. Perhaps a better question is why wouldn't/shouldn't he? Sex is not a bad thing. Those who think it is are probably doing it wrong.

What did Wireko have to say? Let's see...

Everything is certainly wrong with a father sleeping with his blood daughter.

 Does she give a reason?

It is repugnant apart from the fact that it is a taboo in our custom.

Ah, Discredited Arguments #1 and 2.

However, when a father’s love for his daughter straddles beyond parental love veering off to lust, to the extent of sexual abuse, it becomes horrendous.

Abuse and lovemaking are two different things. She goes on to write about abuse, without giving a good reason as to why consenting adults shouldn't be free to share love, sex, residence, and marriage. Don't like it? Don't do it. But there ARE adult women in loving spousal-type relationships with their biological fathers, despite what prejudiced bigots think.

Please also see Intergenerational Relationships Can Work 



why would a woman sleep with her father why would a father and daughter have sex why would a parent have sex with an adult child why would a woman have sex with her father

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Posted in: consanguineous,FAQ,father-daughter,prejudice

Obligatory Flowers in the Attic Post

I'm not sure why, but Blogger tends to eat embedded videos, from their sister service YouTube no less, so I am bumping this up with the video embedded. Again.

Lifetime is doing an adaptation of Flowers in the Attic. Here is a short trailer.



It will be nice when we get some productions that depict consanguinamory as something that happens in "normal" or average lives, because it is. It is not just something found in horror scenarios or where there is child abuse or neglect.

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Posted in: brother-sister,consanguineous,incest,media,siblings

Oakland County's Ax-Murdering Housewife Seeks Clemency

Sorry about that headline.  But this case was all-over your evening news back in 2004, when kindergarten teacher Nancy Ann Seaman axed her long-time husband to death on Mother's Day.

Earlier this month, Ms. Seaman filed for clemency consideration with Governor Rick Snyder.  You might recall [but probably not] that 3-years ago, a federal judge granted Seaman's petition for Habeas Corpus.

Ms. Seaman was jury convicted of first degree murder before retired Oakland Circuit Judge John McDonald.  Seven-months after her trial, Judge McDonald reduced Seaman's conviction from first to second degree murder.

Both Seaman and the prosecutor appealed.  The Michigan Court of Appeals reversed the trial court and reinstated Seaman's first degree murder conviction.  [The linked MCOA opinion contains a fascinating in-court colloquy about premeditation between the prosecutor and trial judge at the hearing on Seaman's motion for a new trial, beginning on page 5.]

The Court of Appeals found (by 2-1) that the trial court abused its discretion by acting as a "thirteenth juror" in reducing the conviction to second degree murder.  The intermediate appellate court also held that premeditation has no set time-frame but rather, can be established in the fleeting moment that it takes to have a "second look" at an imminent homicide.

Dissenting Judge Karen Fort Hood was troubled by the apparent "disconnect" between Seaman's self defense theory and testimony regarding "battered spouse syndrome".  Evidence relative to the latter theory was limited by the trial court.  Judge Fort Hood also commented on what she perceived as a confusion of jury instructions on the two concepts.  See the last two pages of the above link for her concise dissent.

The Michigan Supreme Court declined further review of Ms. Seaman's conviction; the Habeas petition still lingers with the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Michigan grinding through cases filed in 2009, before turning to those filed in 2010.

Carol Jacobsen, a University of Michigan Law Professor, is the executive director of the Women's Justice and Clemency Project.  They are seeking clemency for Seaman and 9 other convicted women, many of whom were tried prior to a change in the law allowing accused women to present evidence of domestic abuse.

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Posted in: clemency,criminal defense lawyer,Governor Rick Snyder,murder

The Invisible Asterisk

Sometimes, when someone writes (or says) that they support the freedom to marry or, marriage equality, or #Marriage4All, or “love is love” or something like “The sex lives of consenting adults is nobody else’s business.,” there is an invisible asterisk. You know, one of these ==> *

What might really be going on is this…

“Consenting adults should be free to marry each other.”*

*Unless you mean something I don’t like or think is disgusting, like polygamy, open marriage, or consensual adult incest.



I don’t do that. There is no asterisk in this statement…

I support the rights of an adult to share love, sex, residence, and marriage with any and all consenting adults, without prosecution, bullying, or discrimination.

There is no asterisk after “adult.” An “adult” includes any person, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race, or religion.

“Any and all” means “any and all”. If an adult woman can vote, be Secretary of State (or Prime Minister, which we don't have in the US), serve as a Governor, be a CEO of a Fortune 500 company, sign contracts, enlist in the military, operate heavy machinery, be sentenced to life in prison or the death penalty (which we do have in many places in the US), and can consent to group sex with three cage fighters she just met, it seems to me an adult woman should also be free to have sex with and/or marry any consenting adult(s), even if that means another woman, or two women, or two men, or a woman and a man, or a married man (not hidden from his existing spouse), or her sister, whether an adopted sister, stepsister, half sister, or full blood sister. All of this goes for men, too, of course.

This basic right means all adults having the same right to not marry at all, and to divorce, and to be free of domestic violence. The basic freedom of association should mean that adults can share the entirely of love, sex, residence, and marriaqe, or any of those without the others, and any civil union or domestic partnership that is offered. That’s a funny thing called… equality. There is no good reason to deny equality. Now is the time to get it done.
So, do you support full marriage equality, or marriage “equality”*?

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Posted in: allies,freedom to marry,marriage equality,politicians,prejudice,solidarity,terminology

Massachusetts Still Doesn't Have Full Marriage Equality

Massachusetts led the way in the US in moving towards full marriage equality, but still isn't there yet. Here's an example of a same-gender wedding in the state to start a marriage that is still denied legal recognition, because it is polyamorous. Kitten, Brynn, and Doll shared their special day with offbeatbride.com, where you can go to see beautiful pictures and and a video, and learn the details about what was involved in the wedding.


KevCool Photography captured these images.

The Offbeat Bride: Kitten, Fashion Manager
Her offbeat partners: Brynn, Computer Programer; Doll, Fashion Designer
Date and location of wedding: Codman Estate Lincoln, MA — August 4, 2013
Our offbeat wedding at a glance: Our wedding had to include meaning for all three of us brides in our polyamorous wedding.

Our entrance music was Emilie Autumn's "On a Day," and our officiants read the following:

I'd like to welcome you to a most unusual wedding. In our society today, no wedding is really "normal." Our polyglot nation has blended together so many ideas of what it means to be married, and how one goes about doing it, that there is truly no one true way to structure a marriage ceremony. But even by modern standards, where blended families are the new norm, where ceremonies invoke ancient customs alongside modern creations, where in a seemingly ever-increasing number of states and countries, anyone can marry the person that they love, this is a most unusual wedding. Today we have gathered to witness the union of Brynn, Kitten, and Doll. We are here today to offer them our love and our blessings as they embark on the next phase of their lives together. To some, they represent the "slippery slope" we were warned about. In truth, what they are about to do today is as old as mankind. While modern humans may have invented the word "polyamory," or "many loves," we certainly didn't invent the idea. Multiple adult relationships are as old as we are as a species. Every major culture on the planet has had some form of multiple marriage. Every major religion has allowed it at some point, and some still do. Numerous holy men from the Old Testament had multiple wives. Arjuna, a Hindu hero in the Mahabharata, shares his wife with his brothers, one of whom later marries as well. To modern Pagans, all acts of love are holy to the Goddess.

Culturally powerful words.

They discuss some of their challenges in deciding on a ceremony and planning it, but here's a challenge they shouldn't have had to face...

We also had to work with in the legalities of the state. As being married to more than one person is not yet legal, we had to combine handfasting, legally binding documents, and legal marriage to come to a configuration we all felt equal in.

There is no good reason why shouldn't have all been free to enter into a legal marriage.

From Kitten's favorite moment...

My father had stopped talking to me for a period of time after I came out as not only gay, but as also dating TWO women. Shortly before the wedding, the bonds were mending, just in time for my father to be hospitalized. There were serious concerns about whether or not he would be able to walk his last daughter down the aisle. So for me to be walked down the aisle and dance with my father, was one of my most meaningful moments.

Kudos to him and all who supported this marriage. The brides and the ceremony look beautiful.

 
Some poly people do not want a wedding or to get married at all. Some want to wait until their marriages would be legal before they marry.The sooner we get full marriage equality, the better.

Read more »

Posted in: boundaries,family reaction,freedom to marry,lack of equality harms,LGBT,love,polyamory,polygamy,religion,same-sex

Massachusetts Still Doesn't Have Full Marriage Equality

Massachusetts led the way in the US in moving towards full marriage equality, but still isn't there yet. Here's an example of a same-gender wedding in the state to start a marriage that is still denied legal recognition, because it is polyamorous. Kitten, Brynn, and Doll shared their special day with offbeatbride.com, where you can go to see beautiful pictures and and a video, and learn the details about what was involved in the wedding.


KevCool Photography captured these images.

The Offbeat Bride: Kitten, Fashion Manager
Her offbeat partners: Brynn, Computer Programer; Doll, Fashion Designer
Date and location of wedding: Codman Estate Lincoln, MA — August 4, 2013
Our offbeat wedding at a glance: Our wedding had to include meaning for all three of us brides in our polyamorous wedding.

Our entrance music was Emilie Autumn's "On a Day," and our officiants read the following:

I'd like to welcome you to a most unusual wedding. In our society today, no wedding is really "normal." Our polyglot nation has blended together so many ideas of what it means to be married, and how one goes about doing it, that there is truly no one true way to structure a marriage ceremony. But even by modern standards, where blended families are the new norm, where ceremonies invoke ancient customs alongside modern creations, where in a seemingly ever-increasing number of states and countries, anyone can marry the person that they love, this is a most unusual wedding. Today we have gathered to witness the union of Brynn, Kitten, and Doll. We are here today to offer them our love and our blessings as they embark on the next phase of their lives together. To some, they represent the "slippery slope" we were warned about. In truth, what they are about to do today is as old as mankind. While modern humans may have invented the word "polyamory," or "many loves," we certainly didn't invent the idea. Multiple adult relationships are as old as we are as a species. Every major culture on the planet has had some form of multiple marriage. Every major religion has allowed it at some point, and some still do. Numerous holy men from the Old Testament had multiple wives. Arjuna, a Hindu hero in the Mahabharata, shares his wife with his brothers, one of whom later marries as well. To modern Pagans, all acts of love are holy to the Goddess.

Culturally powerful words.

They discuss some of their challenges in deciding on a ceremony and planning it, but here's a challenge they shouldn't have had to face...

We also had to work with in the legalities of the state. As being married to more than one person is not yet legal, we had to combine handfasting, legally binding documents, and legal marriage to come to a configuration we all felt equal in.

There is no good reason why shouldn't have all been free to enter into a legal marriage.

From Kitten's favorite moment...

My father had stopped talking to me for a period of time after I came out as not only gay, but as also dating TWO women. Shortly before the wedding, the bonds were mending, just in time for my father to be hospitalized. There were serious concerns about whether or not he would be able to walk his last daughter down the aisle. So for me to be walked down the aisle and dance with my father, was one of my most meaningful moments.

Kudos to him and all who supported this marriage. The brides and the ceremony look beautiful.

 
Some poly people do not want a wedding or to get married at all. Some want to wait until their marriages would be legal before they marry.The sooner we get full marriage equality, the better.

Read more »

Posted in: boundaries,family reaction,freedom to marry,lack of equality harms,LGBT,love,polyamory,polygamy,religion,same-sex